When The Trump Sounds-Will You Be Ready?
Published on September 10, 2007 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Religion
Continuing on where we left off we now come to Revelation 7:9-17 which says:

9After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying:
“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”
13Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” 14And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15“Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16“They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17“for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”


We start off with another worship service not unlike we saw in Chapters 4 & 5 and before the next seal, the 7th, is opened. This is the worship service that will precede the great wrath of God about to overtake the whole world.

In this chapter we see two scenes. First we saw, in the last segment, the 144,000 chosen Jews sealed by God to do the work of God for his special purpose.

This next scene seems to represent all the world. First, we see "after those things." So we can see we're moving along to a different scene. We're moving from one group of people to another. We're going from a specific number to a multitude, a number nobody can number.

The word "behold" is a word of amazement. It's as tho John is saying, "I looked and I can't believe my eyes." He has seen creatures, elders and angels. Now before him is a great multitude, more than he can even number.

We always see two positions before the throne; standing and on their knees. We never see anyone sitting. Notice this multitude is standing before the throne.

Do you remember the promise given to Abraham? Here we see the promise fulfilled. We need to go way back to Genesis 22:16-17 and read:

By Myself I have sworn, says the Lord, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son— “blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies.

So John sees all these that are clothed in white. Earlier we saw a rainbow. So in effect what is happening here is one big lightshow is happening. The light from the dazzling colorful rainbow all around the throne is being reflected off all these pure white robes. God's own glory reflects back to him.

The Palm branches are a symbol of victory. These branches were used in the Jewish feasts. The last of the seven feasts mentioned in Lev 23 is called the Feast of Booths, (tabernacles) or Gathering. I believe each one of the seven feasts corresponds to an event in Christ's first or second coming. This last one is associated with the very end of time. We read in Lev 23:40:

And you shall take for yourselves on the first day the fruit of beautiful trees, branches of palm trees, the boughs of leafy trees, and willows of the brook; and you shall rejoice before the Lord your God for seven days.

Notice in v10 a loud voice crying out about salvation. They are recognizing that salvation does indeed come from God. Have you noticed that nothing seems quiet in heaven. Everything seems to happen with a shout. We will see an exception tho soon.

In v11 we see all angels (lots) elders and creatures worship God. They are giving God the glory for what he has done for mankind. Notice the seven fold praise to God as they listed seven attributes of God in this remarkable description of Him. This scene should remind us of Luke 15:10 when Christ said:

“Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” Imagine all heaven rejoicing when you finally came to God leaving the world behind. How awesome.

So now we come to v13 with two questions being asked of John. This is so reminiscent of how Christ operated when He walked the earth. He liked to ask questions to get them to thinking. It was also a typical Jewish format and one we see quite often in the OT. For example you can see this question and answer format in Ezek 37 and Zech 4:1-6.

So he asks John "who are these people"? We know they're saved. They have new garments exchanging the old filthy ones for fresh clean pure ones. These robes speak of purity and righteousness. They have been washed in the blood of the lamb. 1 John 1:7 says:

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

The next question asks "where did they come from?"

The answer is they came out of the Great Tribulation. This is the only place and time where the tribulation is called the "Great Tribulation." This is the second half of Daniel's week. This is occurring right after the 6th seal and before the 7th. These are those who have entered heaven. I believe these could quite possibly be those that have been raptured. This would be another way of saying the rapture occurs "pre-wrath." It's not as popular as a "pre-trib rapture" but it may make much more sense when you take Matthew 24 and lay it side by side with what we've been reading thus far in Revelation.

Some say these are those that are saved thru all the ages. Some say these are those saved during the seven year tribulation. If you believe in the pre-trib rapture then you would place the rapture before Revelation 4:1. Others say it's right here. These people are those that have come out of the great tribulation as it is so stated right here in this section.

We can see quite clearly there is an interlude between the 6th & 7th seal. It seems as tho this is the time when God quite possibly is yanking his people out of the world.

This time is also the changing of the guard. It's back to the Jews again. That's why this all starts with the 144,000 Jews being sealed and explains why these questions are now being asked of John. When we look at v9 we see they come from all nations. Usually this speaks of Gentiles, not Jews. So now what we are observing here is the changing of the baton back to the Jews to preach the gospel to their fellow Jews. God is now going to turn back to israel. That's why he's gathered them and set them in their own land today.

The bible says we will have tribulation. He may allow the church to go thru the tribulation but will never allow the church to suffer thru his wrath meant only for unbelievers. The tribulation coming from evil men in this world is much different than wrath poured out from heaven above.

Going back to 6:17 we see that introduces us to chapter 7. When does this all take place? After the six seals have been opened. There will be no Christians on earth when the 7th seal is opened. This is when God's fury and wrath will be poured out and who will be able to stand? Only those 144,000 sealed and protected by God.

Going back to Matthew 24 we see Jesus is sitting with his disciples. These are his followers and whom he is addressing. They are looking for a sign (v3). A sign is something you see. In v13 he says he who endures to the end will be saved? End of what? The tribulation. This makes sense. Those who make it thru the tribulation will be pulled out and saved before the wrath of God. Notice in v22 it says:

"And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened"

What days shortened? It can't be the full seven years or Daniel's 70th week would be void. These shortened days would be the period of the tribulation. It will be cut short for the elect's sake when He will take them out.

Going onto 24:25 Jesus uses the pronoun "you" meaning his disciples. He goes on to say in v31:

"And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

He's telling them he will take them out via the Rapture before it gets really bad. Yes they will go thru tribulation. Yes it's going to be bad. But we are never to worry about what man can do to us. It's what God is able to do to man that should have us trembling. Notice the trumpet is mentioned again as it is in 1 Thess 4:16. The trumpet is very well known in Jewish times to gather God's people together. That's a picture of what we see Jesus is explaining to his disciples here.

Today the church today is mostly teaching a pre-trib rapture theory thanks in part to Tim LaHaye and others. What will happen if the tribulation starts to happen and we're still here? They may start to think they are not believers or that God's promises are not true. Don't be surprised if we do start to go thru some pretty unsettling tribulation to come. We must endure and wait it out and know he will cut short the days when he deems it to be the right time. All in his timing.

After coming out of much turmoil and tears God will comfort them promising them no more hunger and no more thirst. He will shepherd them. A shepherd in the Gk is another word for Pastor. What a day that will be when we finally have Jesus as our Pastor forever.

For thus says the Lord God: “Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12“As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13“And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land; I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country. 14“I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15“I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down,” says the Lord God. 16“I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment.” Ezek 34:11-16




Comments (Page 3)
7 Pages1 2 3 4 5  Last
on Sep 16, 2007
Lot was "taken out" of Sodom before God's wrath came down. Now they weren't raptured. I understand that but regardless they were removed before God's wrath was unleashed. He moved them out.


Well, technically speaking, literally speaking, Lot was not removed nor did God move them out. God protected them by telling them what to do and when. While the son-in-laws didn't heed God's advice, Lot and his family did and fled the Sodom and Gomarrah before God's judgment came down upon them. Very similiar the first Jewish Christians whom God saved by telling them what to do and when. When they saw the signs Jesus has prophecied, they took Jesus' advise and they fled Jerusalem in 70AD before God's judgment through the Roman army came down upon the city destroying the city and Herod's Temple.

LULA POSTS:
Christians, at the end of the world, won't be taken out from God's wrath but be protected from it...much the very same way He has been protecting His people all through salvation history.


How? God's wrath is nothing like what has been happening in salvation history. It's totally different. It's going to affect the physical world. His wrath will be poured out "without mixture" it says in Revelation.


God's wrath that you're talking about here is at the very end of time and of the world...this is followed by the Second Coming and the General Judgment, then it's eternal life spent in Heaven or Hell.




Enoch was an example of one "taken out" of the world....


Yes, we've got agreement that (H)enoch was "taken out" of the world...   however, no agreement on this...

he'll have to remove us before he does these upcoming things.
  

and the beat goes on.....I see you have Revelation 8 posted.   

on Sep 16, 2007
Well, technically speaking, literally speaking, Lot was not removed nor did God move them out. God protected them by telling them what to do and when.


He sent two angels to bring Lot out. When Christ comes back he's coming back to lead us out as well.None of us will be taken by force.

If God was only going to protect Lot like us in the end time, why didn't he just protect Lot right there in the middle of Sodom? That's what you're saying about us right? God is going to protect us somehow you say. How is that I want to know. He didn't do that with Lot. He took him out, then wiped out Sodom. He will take us out, then wipe out earth.

on Sep 17, 2007
The answer is they came out of the Great Tribulation. This is the only place and time where the tribulation is called the "Great Tribulation." This is the second half of Daniel's week. This is occurring right after the 6th seal and before the 7th. These are those who have entered heaven. I believe these could quite possibly be those that have been raptured. This would be another way of saying the rapture occurs "pre-wrath." It's not as popular as a "pre-trib rapture" but it may make much more sense when you take Matthew 24 and lay it side by side with what we've been reading thus far in Revelation.



If I understand correctly, Rapurists believe the “great tribulation” hasn’t occurred yet, but will occur during the seven years immediately after the secret rapture.

In the Douay Rheims, besides this one, the “great tribulation” is used 3 other times in the NT---- in Acts 7:11, Apoc. 2:22, and St.Matt. 24:21.

It seems to me that the “great tribulation” of Apoc.7 and St.Matt. 24 has already been fulfilled.

Apoc. 7:13-14, “Then one of the elders addressed me saying: ‘Who are these clothed in white robes, and where have they come?’ I said to him: ‘Sir, you know. And he told me, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.’"

St.Matt. 24:21-22, "For there shall be then great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be. 22 And unless those days had been shortened, no human being should be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened."

Here, when answering His disciples’ 2 questions, Jesus, using similar language to Daniel 12:1, prophesied the “great tribulation” was referring to a time when the Roman Empire would persecute Christians before destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.

To protect the first Christians, He gave them 8 signs to look for...false messiahs...wars...famines and earthquakes...tribulation..apostasy...the world wide gospel...and Daniel’s desolating sacrilege. V. 21, Jesus' 5th sign is the “great tribulation” of His infant Church first under the persecution of the Jewish authorities then under Nero from 64 to 67AD. The 5th sign is a warning that His young and small Church is about to enter into a battle for virtual survival.

Was the “great tribulation” the worse that has ever been and will be (until the end of the world and Christ’s Second Coming) ? I think yes. If Nero’s full might against the newly formed, young and small Church (still considered a sect within Judaism) had been able to continue much longer or if Jerusalem Christians had not fled to the mountains, they would have easily been completely destroyed.

Concerning v. 22, “And unless those days had been shortened, no human being should be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened."

Could there be a supernatural (spiritual) explanation of the survival of the Infant Church? I think so. Nero’s persecution of the Church started in 64 after the burning of Rome and continued unabated until 67 when Rome’s wrath shifted from the Christian community to Jerusalem. The timing of these events has supernatural meaning because the Christians couldn’t have endured this type of state persecution much longer. God mercifully intervened; He “shortened those days”. To me, this was the Church’s “Great Tribulation” that both Apoc. 7 and St.Matt. 24 refer to. Why? Because never again will God’s New Covenant people be in such a vulnerable position. Following this, history tells us that Rome would once again focus its hatred on the Church and persecute it for two more centuries. By this time, it had already grown much stronger and was able to survive. It is in this sense that I see the “great tribulation” that Jesus prophesied as fulfilled. We know there were a great many martyrs that came out of the “great tribulation” and these are who St.John is writing in Apocalypse 7:13-14.

St.Matt. 24: 21’s description of a tribulation so terrible that it was never experienced before also fits numerous OT prophecies concerning God’s judgments upon the Jewish people. God punished the Jews by means of the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities. But at Christ’s death, the Jews experienced the physical destruction of their nation at the hands of the Roman armies followed by their expulsion from their homeland within 40 years of Christ’s death.

Besides the physical destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, there was a spiritual judgment as well first initiated by Christ’s death on the Cross, the Temple veil was rent from top to bottom, and the 40 year time span where the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple ended the Old Covenant sacrifices, ceremonies and rites (biblical Judaism) once and for all time.


The major fulfillment of St.Matt. 24 was accomplished in 70AD. Since the references to events in the Apocalypse which are said to “shortly come to pass” suggests the chronological proximity of Jerusalem’s destruction, I view much of the Apocalypse as having been fulfilled in the first century.

According to Biblical principles concerning prophecy, the “great tribulation” can also stand for the prophetic event of the final test of the Church at the end of the world when Christ will come again in Final Judgment.

Therefore, St.Matt 24 can also be an application to future events as in multiple fulfillments. This is also true of the Apocalypse. Why? because the spiritual battle between good and evil wages on and will until the end of the world. The Apocalypse always pointing to the Second Coming of Christ tells the battle will continue throughout salvation history, and at the same time, it’s already been won for “Christ has overcome the world”.




on Sep 17, 2007
I think we should make a list of all the foretold judgements/wraths and then Lula can tell us each event that corresponds to 70AD.
on Sep 17, 2007
If I understand correctly, Rapurists believe the “great tribulation” hasn’t occurred yet, but will occur during the seven years immediately after the secret rapture.


You're partly right Lula. Rapurists don't believe the Great Trib has started yet. But it's only going to be for a short period of time, not the whole seven years. The Great Tribulation is actually defined in Matt 24:15-21. Notice when the Great Tribulation starts according to Christ. He said it will happen AFTER the abomination of desolation.

Most of the time people use the word tribulation for all of the 7 years. It's not right tho. While we will have tribulation in the beginning it turns into a Great Tribulation after the AC takes power. Then shortly after that comes the wrath of God which as I've said is totally diff. Most just lump it all in as the same. I heard Adrian Rogers (whom I love) on the radio yesterday say we will escape the tribulation (wrong) and then he went on to quote verses that said that God has not appointed us to wrath. They are not the same thing.

It seems to me that the “great tribulation” of Apoc.7 and St.Matt. 24 has already been fulfilled


Then you'd have to answer when did the Abomination of Desolation happen according to Matt 24:15.

I've shown you how it fits exactly with Revelation as we've gone along. It's actually part of the 5th seal.

Was the “great tribulation” the worse that has ever been and will be (until the end of the world and Christ’s Second Coming) ? I think yes.


how can you say this Lula with two WW's behind us not that long ago? So you're saying the "Great Trib that the world has never seen" before happened already? That was 2,000 years ago. So that was it? Well I'm glad at least you said "you think" instead of you "know" this to be true. This only affected a small part of the world, the Great Trib is going to affect the whole world as we will continue to see.

Therefore, St.Matt 24 can also be an application to future events as in multiple fulfillments.


Sounds like you're talking about double fulfillment which I would agree with.

I think we should make a list of all the foretold judgements/wraths and then Lula can tell us each event that corresponds to 70AD.


go for it Jythier. I still haven't figured out when every mountain and island fell into the sea in 70AD. Now I can imagine it's about to happen with all the latest news about tsumanis and earthquakes.....but 70AD? Don't see it.



























on Sep 18, 2007
The Great Tribulation is actually defined in Matt 24:15-21. Notice when the Great Tribulation starts according to Christ. He said it will happen AFTER the abomination of desolation.


St.Matt. 24: 15-22 Here, Christ is answering His disciple's question concerning when the Temple in Jerusalem shall be destroyed. He gives them 8 signs...the Abomination of desolation is the last sign. Christ says,

15 When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: (he who reads let him understand);
16 Then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains;
17 He upon the housetop, let him not come down to take anything out of his house;
18 And he in the field, let him not go back to take his coat;
19 and woe to those who are pregnant and who give suck in those days.
20 But pray that your flight is not in winter or on sabbath.
21 For then there shall be great tribulation such as the world has not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither ever shall be
22 And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved: bit for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened.


No, I can't agree with your reading of these passages. V. 15-21 doesn's describe when the "great tribulation" starts; rather it the time very close the actual destruction of destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70AD which was the end of great tribulation for the first Christians.

The "abomination of desolation" was the 8th and last sign that Christ prophecied. He said when the Christians in Jerusalem saw Daniel's desolating sacrilege (that is the Roman army surrounding Jerusalem) to immediately flee to the mountains, that is not take time to go back to their house or even pick up a coat...(my reply #33 describes this.)

Lula posts:
It seems to me that the “great tribulation” of Apoc.7 and St.Matt. 24 has already been fulfilled


KFC POSTS: Then you'd have to answer when did the Abomination of Desolation happen according to Matt 24:15.




Here in verse 15, the “abomination of desolation” aka “the desolating sacrilege”, Jesus is referring to a prophecy in Daniel (9:27; 11:31; 12:11) where Daniel foretold that the Syrian king, Antiochus IV Epiphanes, would occupy the Temple. This came to pass and the idol was set up on the altar--a sign of abomination (idolatry) and desolation. Our Lord applies this episode to the future destruction of Jerusalem ---asking people “let the reader understand” to pay more heed to the text of Daniel. Jesus tells them that a new "abomination of desolation" will occur ruining the Temple to make way for idolatrous worship---as happened in 70AD when the Roman armies destroyed and profaned the temple, and later, under Hadrian, who ordered the erection of a statue of Jupiter on the ruins.

So, in short, Daniel's "desolating abomination" is what Antiochus did to the Temple in Jerusalem and the new "abomination of desolation" that Christ refers to in St.Matt. 24:15 occured in 70AD, Daniels' 70th week, when the Roman army profaned the Temple.

I've checked both the Latin and the Greek "abomination of desolation". As used here, it's a phrase that is neuter gender implying the abomination does not necessarily apply to a person, but to an event. Daniel has three places where he uses the phrase which denote intense desolation. It seems to me that the huge Roman army destroying Jerusalem and the Temple, first profaning it and then tearing it down stone by stone, fits the meaning of "intense desolation". The Temple itself, the Temple sacrifice and ceremonial rites was/is no more...that's intense.
on Sep 18, 2007
No I don't agree with what you said above at all. It's a preterist view. Yes, you can APPLY some of this to 70AD (the fleeing to the Mountians etc) but the whole discourse is about the end times. I noticed you didn't put v14 in there. It says before all what you wrote about:

And this gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations and THEN SHALL THE END COME.

The gospel preaching was in its infancy back then with the scriptures just barely being finished with some not quite finished. Not even remotely close to being preached thru the whole world in 70AD.

He then goes right into the answer to the question put to him in v3:

"Tell us WHEN shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of your coming and of the end of the world."

While some of what you think or believe could be applied to 70AD it wasn't about then but for the end times. The Abomination of Desolation will be the Anti Christ taking over the world being successful for a season. Think Hitler, Think Alexander the Great, etc. Only this time Satan's man will be finally able to accomplish what Satan has been waiting to happen but only because God allows it. It's all his timing.

I agree the abomination of desolation is an event. Where we differ is the fact that you think it's over and I think it's future. Although there was another time with Epiphanes back before Christ that this happened as well. Daniel mentions this time also.

on Sep 19, 2007
Then the rapture will happen (1 Thess 4 and right here during this time in Revelation) to get the believers out before the wrath of God is unleashed. Then there will be silence in heaven (8:1) before God's wrath comes down.


You're dogmatically reading the Rapture Theory into the Scriptural text. I couldn't disagree more. It doesn't fit, it doesn't belong there and it doesn't make sense with the rest of Scripture or with Christ's teachings.

When we examine Scripture to see what it plainly tells us about Christ's Second Coming for the Final Judgment, it says nothing of getting believers out and it promises no escape from the persecution of the Antichrist.

Instead Scripture predicts that Christ's coming will be a glorious public event. It warns Christians that until He comes, they will suffer tribulation and if they are living on earth when Antichrist comes, they will suffer great tribulation. It promises that if they endure to the end by God's grace, they will be saved.


It's your timing of when 1Thess.4:15-17 occurs that I call into question. The timing and the order of each different event at the final eschaton is important to understand.

It seems to me that the rapture described in 1Thess. 4:15-17 occurs at the General Resurrection. Here it is:

15For this we say to you in the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not proceed those who are asleep
16 For the Lord Himself shall come down from heaven with a word of command, and with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are IN Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord. Comfort one another with these words."


I view Scripture describing the timing and order of the events proceeding Christ's Second Coming and the Final Judgment as follows:

Now: The millenium Church age--battle between good and evil--beginnings of sorrows, sufferings, natural disturbances, wars, universal Gospel-- constant call to repentance and belief in Christ, conversion of Jews; Church age ends

Days of the End of world: Satan unchained for short time--Antichrist--great apostasy, great martyrdom, great tribulation, extraordinary disturbances of nature..this is where I would place the short time of silence in Heaven--followed by the end of the whole world by fire....after this the whole appearance of the earth will be completely changed.

The Last day:General Resurrection of the just and unjust---
The first event that will happen upon the end of the world is the general resurrection of the dead v. 16. God will send out His angels who will blow a mighty trumpet blast that will re-echo throughout the whole world and cause the earth to tremble. Everyone must obey the sound. Every one, including those conceived in the womb, that has died, will rise again in the general resurrection of the dead. St.Paul says, “We shall indeed all rise again, but we shall not all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall rise again incorruptible; and we shall be changed.” 1Cor. 40: 51-52.

V. 16 tells us the first to be resurrected from the dead are those who have died IN Christ. This is the resurrection of the just; good or elect. Concerning this Christ says, “He shall send His angels with a trumpet and a great voice; and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest parts of the heavens to the utmost bounds of them.” St.Matt. 24:31.

The general resurrection begins while the trumpet sound still re-echoes over the globe. Awakened by the sound, all the souls of the just will come down from the farthest parts of heaven accompanied by their guardian angels. The grave site where their bodily remains were will be opened and through the power of God the body made incorrupt will be reunited with the soul. This on the authority of God’s omnipotence and His word, no matter how long ago the body of a man may have turned into dust, whatever changes it went through, every portion and particle will unite to form again the same body which was during his lifetime. “And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them.” Apoc. 20:13.

That the just will take precedence over the wicked is told by Christ, “Wonder not at this; for the hour cometh where all that are in their graves shall hear the voice of the Son of God. And they that have done good things shall come forth to the resurrection of life; but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment” St.Jn. 5:28-29.

The resurrection of the wicked follows immediately upon that of the just...but it’s different for them. In every burying ground of the lost souls the bodies will resemble devils more than men, thus soul and the body will mutually anathematize each other.


If the good and evil are found together in the grave sites, that will come to pass which our Lord predicted, “So shall it be at the end of the world, the angels shall go out and shall separate the wicked from among the just.” St. Matt. 13:39. Since the good are laid to rest amongst the wicked, it follows that at the general resurrection , they will be found amongst the wicked as well. Accordingly, after the general resurrection, the holy angels will come and separate the just elect from the wicked reprobate.

This is where v. 17 applies, “Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord......"

“shall be taken together with them” that is those elect who have just risen from the dead in the General Resurrection. St.Paul tells them that those who are alive, who are left, will be caught up, that is changed, made from being corruptible and mortal to being incorruptible and immortal, and together with those elect who have just risen from the dead, will be taken in the clouds to meet Christ in the air. So, all the just, good, elect, will be carried on the clouds in splendor and great glory by the holy angels to the place of judgment.


CHrist's Second Coming for Final Judgement of the living and the dead: With the solemn blast of the trumpet, God will cause all men, the living and the dead to be summoned to the Last Judgment. All of us, everyone everywhere, will come before Christ at the Last Judgment.

St.Matt.25: 31-46 describes how Christ judges each one and then separates the just, good, the elect from the wicked and what happens to each one after that.

on Sep 19, 2007
Attempting to stop the bold . . .
on Sep 19, 2007
Maybe this will work . . .
on Sep 19, 2007
Arrgh! Nothing seems to work!

Stupid bold.
on Sep 19, 2007


I just assumed everyone wanted to make bold statements.
on Sep 19, 2007
You killed it! How come you could do it and I couldn't?!?!?!
on Sep 19, 2007
10 End Bold Tags.
on Sep 19, 2007

St.Matt. 24: 15-22 Here, Christ is answering His disciple's question concerning when the Temple in Jerusalem shall be destroyed. He gives them 8 signs...the Abomination of desolation is the last sign. Christ says,

15 When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: (he who reads let him understand);
16 Then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains;
17 He upon the housetop, let him not come down to take anything out of his house;
18 And he in the field, let him not go back to take his coat;
19 and woe to those who are pregnant and who give suck in those days.
20 But pray that your flight is not in winter or on sabbath.
21 For then there shall be great tribulation such as the world has not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither ever shall be
22 And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved: bit for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened.


No I don't agree with what you said above at all. It's a preterist view. Yes, you can APPLY some of this to 70AD (the fleeing to the Mountians etc) but the whole discourse is about the end times.


KFC,
You surely know as well as I do that the entire discourse is not only about the end times. Verse 2 of the discourse begins with Christ saying of the Temple, "Do you see these things? Amen I say you, there shall be not left here a stone upon a stone that shall not be destroyed." The disciples then ask two questions, one concerning the signs of the destruction of the Temple and the Second Coming of Christ and end of the world.

I have shown how these verses both apply to and some fulfilled in 70AD. The great tribulation Jesus predicts here has already come to pass including v. 22, the significance and explanation of why those days were shortened. The abomination of desolation was the sign that told the Jewish Christians to save themselves by after seeing the abomination of desolation immediately fleeing to the mountains.

The reliability of Jesus' first answer gives us confidence in His second answer, which is still unfilfilled. It seems at least some of the events surrounding 70AD act as a prophecy pointing to the Second Coming.

We've seen the "abomination of desolation" re-occurred throughout OLd Covenant and it's Temple history. But there is no longer an Old Covenant, no longer a Temple, no longer Temple sacrifices. It is in this sense that I am pointing out that these passages are already fulfilled. We are now under the New and Everlasting Covenant of grace. I don't see anywhere in Scripture of going back to the Old Covenant, the Temple or the Temple sacrifice. Perhaps you do...


7 Pages1 2 3 4 5  Last