leauki posts:

I already did explain the difference in post 600. Ancient Judaism or what I call Biblical Judaism  or  Old Testament Judaism was established by God for a specific mission....whereas modern Judaism was established by men. That fact alone says it all.  

The Church of the Children of Isreal functioned with Divine authority until the veil in the Temple was rent. The three holy things basic to OT Judaism, priests, sacrifices and Temple altar are of historic past. The synagogues of modern Judaism function with no Divine Authority and are but a faint reflection of what was with the sacred things that were.

The OT is filled with details of how ancient Judaism was to have a very certain worship, faith, and way of life. The High Priest offered the torah prescribed sacrifices on a world-central altar located in the Temple of Jerusalem. The end of all this came in the first century of the Christian era, 70AD to be exact.  

Modern Judaism does no such things and cannot becasue there is no Temple or Aaronic priesthood, sacrifices, etc. When a dispute arises there is no authoritative body to give a final decision as there used to be in Ancient Judaism. Authority is contained only in the Scriptures, not in any living Jewish individual or body.

As far as I can tell Reform Judaism is as far away from being in accord with Old Testament Judaism as Unitarianism is from New Testament Christianity.  

You also said that you don't know much about "modern" Judaism.

How can you know it's different when you don't know much about it?

In post 600 you didn't explain anything, except that you believe that Christianity "replaced" Judaism. But repeating your opinion is not what I asked you for. I asked you to tell us what the differences are between "modern" Judaism and ancient Judaism.

Any rabbi can explain why we follow rituals. They don't do anything, they are just to keep us busy and put us in the right state of mind. If a water baptism could save our souls, we wouldn't need G-d (or a Messiah).

I have told you these things before, yet you again pretend that you don't know.

1. There is an Aaronic priesthood. The priest caste still exists.

2. Ancient Judaism didn't always have a Temple either.

3. There are authoritative bodies and final decisions. What do you think those bearded barbarians in Jerusalem are for?

4. Of course final authority is only contained in scriptures. That's what scripture is supposed to be.

So what were those differences again except for a couple of things you keep forgetting you are wrong about?

Well, that lets Obama off the hook.

"I have given you the benefit of the doubt all this time that you were truly a seeker, maybe just misguided at best or hopelessly ingrained at worse by the RCC but now after this exchange I am convinced I am not dealing with a true genuine seeker but one that is honestly working for Satan for her own gain. 

Sorry Lula.  I don't say these words easily. "

!!!???  This is indeed a pity. 

Thank you for your answers Leauki.  I'm very much interested to learn more about the feelings and beliefs of the modern day jewish religion on Jesus. 

I can not in all good consciousness KFC worship a man as God.  There is only one God, and Jesus is not it.  A wonderful teacher, a fulfillment of a promise made by God that man shall not forever dwell in this world but will resume his journey back to God, he is all these things, but above and beyond that, he was a man, not God.  If he were he would not have referred so many times to his "father" or to himself as the "son of God".  We are all children of God because God is the creator of mankind and God dwells within mankind. 

I have to agree with Leauki about the temple.  God's temple is not a building, nor a church, nor a mosque, but the living breathing temple of humankind.  The soul.  No destruction of a building no matter how important it is felt to be, changes where God dwells.  As long as the jewish people have a soul, God will dwell there always.

While I wouldn't totally disagree with you on this because I agree most rituals are useless and are keeping people busy (b-eing U-nder S-atan's Y-olk)  thinking they are ok now because the engage in them, I don't believe that is the case for baptism.  As Lula says Christ did initiate Baptism (just not for the reasons she's putting down) and it was done for a purpose. 

She's coming at it from a legalistic Phariseeic point of view.  She's doing exactly what Paul was accusing the judiazers as doing.  They were mutilating the gospel by telling others that they had to be circumcised to be saved adding to the gospel. 

When we come to the point of baptism as an adult ( bible doesn't speak of infant baptism)  it's a conscience decision to follow Christ and is our first act of obedience.  It's the point where we are now saying we are dead to self and alive to Christ.  We go down into the water as a symbol of submission and come up in a newness of life. It's a symbol of our old dead life (buried) to being a new creature in Christ (resurrected).    As Christ was baptized at the start of his ministry so too do we because we are following Him.  The other part of this is the witness.  Also part of baptism is for a public witness allowing others (many times unbelievers) to see our committment and how much it means to us.   

Me either.  So I agree with your first sentence.  Jesus not only showed he was God by the many miracles he did but he also said he was God.   So what kind of a good teacher would say an untruth?  Or lead us astray?  He was both man and God.  He was both.  He was a perfect man but yet he was God.  We know God is spirit right?  Well it's just the spirit took on flesh.   He took on the limitations of flesh but he never gave up his deity.  The simple reading of just the gospels will show this. 

The son of man was his favorite term because it linked him to the earth and to his mission.  What he was about to do was even harder than creating the earth.  He came in submission to God, but he was more than a man.  He was God cloaked in flesh or as I like to say now "God in skin."  We ARE NOT all children of God and Christ made that distinction.  Remember he told the Pharisees "you are of your father the devil?"  There are two fathers one genuine and one an imposter. 

It would be theologically correct to say that we are all God's creation, some have been made sons of God but not all are children of God.  In the OT the Jews were favored.  In the NT the church has been added to God's favor...church being those he has brought to himself...not a building or denomination. 

Yes, and Leauki knows I feel the same way.  The temple of God today is one made without hands. 

Jesus actually many times showed that he was G-D.  Most of these times are missed because the church has disregarded its Jewish heritage. Sometimes it takes a Jewish-Believer to connect the dots.  My case in point:  In John it was during the feast of tabernacle. The act of “tabernacling” reminds us of G-d’s promise to Abraham that He would be his G-d and the G-d of his descendants (which Biblically is often partnered with the idea that He will dwell, or tabernacle, with us). This is significant because we are Abraham’s heirs, and the salvation that Jesus provided is a fulfillment of that promise made to Abraham. The act of tabernacling also reminds us of the time that G-d tabernacled among the Israelites in the desert, and later in the Temple. Furthermore, the book of John tells us that the Word, Jesus, came and tabernacled among us. Eventually He sent the Holy Spirit to tabernacle in us, His temples. Finally, this act will find its ultimate fulfillment when Jesus returns and we will dwell in the Lord’s kingdom and His presence forever.

Furthermore, as a part of this feast, the priests would collect water from the pool of Siloam in Jerusalem to pour over a corner of the altar in a libation ceremony.  This was also done so that G-D would bring HIS living water upon their crops. As the people were singing, “With joy we will draw water out of the well of salvation (yeshua),” the gospel of John (7:37-38) records that Jesus (Yeshua) cried out in a loud voice “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." Beyond the powerful application that teaches us of His life and cleansing, this statement powerfully equates Jesus and us to the Temple in Ezekiel’s vision, from which living water flows in Jesus' future kingdom. This also shows that Jesus was saying that HE is G-D.

There's many more situations like this were the average gentile believer/non-jewish educated person may miss of Jesus claiming that He was G-D.

LULA POSTS" quote]I already did explain the difference in post 600. Ancient Judaism or what I call Biblical Judaism or Old Testament Judaism was established by God for a specific mission....whereas modern Judaism was established by men. That fact alone says it all. [/quote]

LEAUKI POSTS: 617

 Goodness, Leauki, once more, note the highlighted...

Old Testament Judaism was revealed and established by God and functioned with Divine Authority.  Modern Judaism was established by men and having been man-made functions without Divine authority.

Tackle that one.

whisper2 posts:

kfc posts:

kfc posts

Well said. On this we agree. It's impossible to present better proof to warrant Christians calling Christ their Lord and God than the say-so of Christ Himself and that Jesus Himself said He was God and claimed to be equal with God as well as His acceptation of the adoration that can rightly be given to God only says it all.   

Whisper2,

 If I am correct earlier in this discussion you encouraged that we should to be solely focused on Christ's words.  What then do Chrst's own words mean when He said, "I and the Father are one"?

I have no problem whatsoever calling Christ, my Lord God. Christ claimed in the most positive way that the nature, attributes titles, prerogatives and names of the one true God belong to Him.

Jesus Christ thou art truly the "Emmanuel" Is. 7:14 "Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to God: but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man. He humbled Himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to death on the cross. For which cause God also hass exalted Him, and hath given Him a name which is above all names: that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth: And that every tongue should confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father. Wherefore, my dearly beloved, ...with fear and trembling work out your salvation." Phil. 2: 6-12.

whisper2 posts:

Jesus called Himself the "Son of Man" in order to stress His perfect humanity through which His mission as the Messias was to be conducted. When Daniel 7:13, saw the Messias in a heavenly vision, it was as the "Son of Man". Jesus called Himself the Son of God in the sense of being God Incarnate, at the most crucial time in His earthly career when it meant a death sentence for blashphemy St.Matthew 26:64.

On the Cross, we see Jesus as the "Son of Man"-suffering. In His Resurrection and Ascension into Heaven, we see Jesus as the Son of God. Jesus is true Man as well as True God, the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

All this is a great mystery that Christians like me accept upon the supernatural virtue and gift of faith, that is, we believe it without question or doubt.

Whisper2,

I disagree.

kfc posts:

I agree and added to that my 2 cents worth....

Although Almighty God created and loves all and He wills that all be saved and come to the knowedge of truth; no, we are not all children of God.  Just as all the people of the world before the Christian era were not "all children of God"; the same is true of the Christian era. God has given His written and oral revelation concerning what it takes to become "adopted" as one of His children and heirs to the kingdom of Heaven.

We start out as being children of the wrath, that is, born with the stain of Original Sin on our soul and that keeps us from being children of God. Ever since Christ came and established the New Covenant in His blood, we become a child of God and enter into Christ's kingdom (the Church) by Baptism, either by water, blood or desire.

Aye! The ancient Isrealites were a Godly nation.....How do you reconcile that with the facts that the modern state of Isreal is secular, has abortion and so called "gay pride" parades on the streets of Jerusalem as well as homosexual rabbis?

The same way you have your Ted Kennedys, Pelosi's and Baldacci's and all the other Catholics fighting for those same causes you just mentioned making them laws in this country. 

First, there is no "if" about it, Jesus is the Messias.

The second part of your sentence is pure end-time fantasy. Our Lord Jesus Christ doesn't need the modern state of Isreal or any nation for that matter. The most we know is that sometime before the end of the world, a "remnant" of the Jews will be saved...these people who make up the "remnant" could ostensibly be Jews from any where on earth.  

Jesus Himself told us He would come back. Now, when He comes back, (and no one but God knows when), it isn't going to have anything to do with fulilling prophecies with the modern state of Isreal. After the end of the world, on "the last day", Christ will come back in full glory for one purpose and one purpose only.....as Judge of all mankind....He'll judge those who are still living and the dead....from there we will all pass into eternity...either in the up place, Heaven or the down place, Hell.

The Church is the Messianic Kingdom of which Christ is the King of Kings reigning from Heaven. These are the "last days", aka the millenium.

Ya, these are Catholic hypocrites who should be excommunicated from the Church until and unless they repent and change their ways.  But what's your point? Leauki's original assertion is  that "The modern state of Israel is the same as the ancient state of Israel, except it is a republic rather than a kingdom."

What say you, KFC? Is the modern state of Isreal the same as the ancient state of Isreal?

 I say, "No way Jose".

God created the ancient Isrealite nation while the modern state of Isreal was created by the UN in 1948.  Given this, how can the two possibly be the same?