Again, wanted to touch on this.  Adam was unique.  He wasn't like the rest of us who came after and inherited his sin.  He was born completely sinless and already had eternal life.  He was already "saved."  He was born saved. 

Like I said earlier he had a relationship with God.  God already chose him to be in his family.  What Adam chose to do tho was disobey him.  So Adam's choice wasn't in his birth, but in his obedience.  He chose to disobey.  He didn't chose not to be born. 

That's what I'm getting at.  OUr freewill is not in our birth, but in our obedience.  We do nothing about our birth, but after our birth we are accountable to our Father in heaven who gave birth to us out of his great abundant grace and mercy. 

I know what I wrote Lula.   The confusion lies with you.  Salvation is by faith alone.  You are NOT saved by your works.  I have not drifted from that because the bible is very very clear. 

That doesn't mean there's no connection between works and faith.  There is. I agree with that.  But we are not saved by our works like I've clearly shown you. 

What you say Leauki is true but God does punish and did punish the Jews.   So it's really like a combination of the two.  God does punish using natural events, people, and circumstances to carry out his punishment.

He even said so.  He used the Assyrians as his whip it says in scripture to spank Israel for their rebellion.  He punished Moses by not letting him see the promised land after he disobeyed God's command.  He used Babylon to punish the Southern Kingdom in much the same way as he used Assyria to punish the Northern Tribes.   He ran Adam and Eve from the garden shutting them out etc. 

God says to spare the rod is to spoil the child.  He takes his own advice.  Sometimes he does take us into his spiritual woodshed, if you will, and spank us.  Many times this does come in the form of natural consequences allowing these things to happen instead of protecting us from it. 

Suffering can be a result of protecting and punishing.  I believe the suffering the Jews had during the Egyptian rule was for their protection and longevity.  He used that time to grow them.  I also believe the suffering the Jews went thru for many centuries led to them returning to their own land.  This is continuing to work itself out. 

That is true. But I was trying specifically to explain that "chosen" and "suffering" does not imply that one was chosen for suffering.

It's a combination.  The point is that the Assyrians and Babylonians were never G-d's agents. They themselves were opportunists and the role they had to play was not one choice. There was nothing morally good about what they did, even if G-d allowed it to happen.

But don't forget that those forces who act, like the Assyrians and Babylonians, are not, as I said, acting on G-d's behalf and will be punished. When Israel turns away from G-d, there is an opportunity to attack, not a duty or even excuse to do so.

It certainly strengthened them as a people.

You said there's no difference between Jews and Christians.

Now I know you're full of shit.

1. You're trying to give a supernatural reason to naturally occuring events. You yourself used the word "natural."

2. How do you personally know which events God allowed to happen and which ones he didn't?

I'm going to guess they'll say....the Bible/unerring truth.

I just came back to edit that. 

KFC, How do you personally know which events were punishments and which weren't?

Again, they'll likely insert the Bible/unerring truth/word into that.

Events chronicled in the Bible, probably, but I'm refering to modern times.

Of course they can, because that's who fairy tales are for.

Hence my comment. They'll comment about the bible, faith, the word, et al. It's the same parroting over and over.

KFC POSTS:

and then writes:

It's your statements like these that are confusing and contradictory. 

And this Protestant doctrine is flat out wrong. According to this, it doesn't matter whether an individual believer lives a good life or not. If all believers are necessarily saved by faith alone, then why does our Lord tell us that on the last day, all men will be judged..the good will be rewarded the wicked will be sent to Hell?

St.James 2 clearly refutes and contradicts your statement and belief that salvation is by faith alone.  St.James teaches that faith alone is insufficient for salvation if it is divorced from a life of good works (which is obedience to God and His laws).

Christ Himself warns us to watch and pray lest we enter into temptation. He also asks the question what does it profit a man if he gain the whole world and suffer the loss of his soul? Those who think themselves to stand are told to beware lest they fall. 

Your complete assurance of salvation by faith alone finds no justification in the Holy Bible.

Salvation is not by faith alone, nor is it by good works alone; rather, salvation comes by a combination of both.

kfc posts #81

We Catholics can go into a Protestant Church for any funeral or wedding, just not in place of Mass on Sunday. So, if this was the case for your inlaws....good for them. 

Why abandon the One, True Church for any one of the Protestant Churches?  There is no sanctuary lamp...of your own choosing, you lack the Real Presence.

How can works be evidence of salvation when we don't know if we are saved until we pass through the heavenly gates?

kfc posts #84

Nah,  this 16th century concept of imputation is loaded with holes and the Scriptural proof texts are non-existent. Since the wages of sin is death, the sinner cannot be justified by just a "cloaking over" of his sins.

With grace, God gives the repentant sinner not just a mere "credit" of imputed righteousness, but an infused righteousness into the soul of the person. His sins are actually removed as God infuses His divine righteiousness into the soul He instills the supernatural virtues of faith, hope and charity (love). As the individual, through God's helping grace, maintains his personal rightousness, he becomes increasingly justified (is being saved) and sanctified in the eyes of God, leading to his final justification (salvation and glorification in Heaven).

An analagy to explain the concept of God's infused righteousness would be that of poouring an amount of pure white liquid into the soul which is blackened with sin so that finally the soul turns from black to white. The white is analagous to the grace of God which is infused into the sinner, changing the whole person, and sufficiently overcoming the blackness of sin. The infused righteiousness of God's grace actually changes or renovates the person's soul to the point that he become acceptable to God and may enter heaven. 

So, our justification process is an ongoing one with God constantly poouring white liquid (His grace) into our dark stained soul making it whiter and whiter. At the same time, if we enter into unrepentant sin, this would combat this process and once again make the soul dark or darker.

The bottom line: it's the condition of the person's soul at death, e.g. the whiteness of the liquid, that is the criterion for final justification.

this question tells me you're not listening to one word I have to say.  Did you even read the blog to begin with?