To Sleep or Not To Sleep?
Published on September 10, 2007 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Home & Family
So here I am trying to do some catch up work on the computer. I have my household budget on Quick Books and am doing much needed data input. In the background is a screaming 10 month old baby. His mommy, my d-i-l, is not feeling well and my heart goes out to her. I remember those days. She came down with a cold yesterday. I remember taking care of my babies and being so exhausted I couldn't think straight especially when I was ill. So after spending the day chasing the little boy around the house she decided to go to bed early with him. I think maybe that wasn't such a good idea now because it's 10:30 and he's in an on and off crying mode..

She's a great mommy. She's doing a great job with Ethan. She's very attentive and reminds me of me. We both had our first at the same age. We both were very inexperienced with babies. Actually she's a few months younger than I was when I had my first. I was determined to be the best mom the second they put that beautiful newborn into my arms. My son, in contrast to Ethan tho, was a very quiet and submissive baby. He was sleeping well by the end of his first month. I never ever woke up with him in the middle of the night after that.

Ethan's a healthy happy baby until he isn't the center of attention, that is. He's absolutely perfect looking. He's charmed everyone he's come into contact with. One thing I think she's just starting to understand about this beautiful little boy is that he's very strong willed. He's got her wrapped, totally, and I can see she's exhausted. He's a master manipulator and is going to be just like his daddy. I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree afterall.

My son and she are are alone in another state with no family, so they have been at this new parenting thing virtually all by themselves. With Brian working so often, much of this child rearing is on her shoulders.

Her first week here she spent alot of time trying to cajole him to sleep sometimes taking two hours or so to do so. One night he just flat out refused to be cajoled still wide awake at 11 pm. He's in the habit of going down to bed asleep in his mommy's arms since birth. He's very big now and this is getting harder and harder to do. Big mistake we told her. It's time he goes down awake. He may cry (and he did) some but it's time for him to go to bed and for mommy to have some down time. She needs a break. She's exhausted.

The first night he cried for about an hour or so and she was a wreck. Her goal I think has been to avoid any confrontation with crying as much as possible. He lived. He actually woke up the next day seemingly in a good mood. None the worse for wear. The next night he cried again and by the third night or so only cried for 10 minutes. Of course her reaction was total and absolute freedom. It was starting to look up.....until tonight.

The bad thing is I have to work all day tomorrow so she's on her own. I hope she eventually gets some sleep tonight. All is quiet now and it's 11 pm. So maybe. But he's yet to sleep thru the night so he'll probably re-awake about 2 or 3 or so. But just maybe this crying jag tonight will have worn him out enough to make it thru. We'll see.

Maybe she'll let me have him one night, so she can get a whole night of uninterrupted sleep. Just Ethan and Nanny. I can always call in the reinforcement. His name is Papa and Ethan is just crazy about him.







Comments (Page 4)
7 PagesFirst 2 3 4 5 6  Last
on Sep 12, 2007
But to put down other people as being less substantial is appalling


Are you serious? I put down TW by explaining my qualifications? Are you kidding? You've never done such a thing?

so when she said:

That is one area in which I am sure you are far more knowledgeable and skilled than me.


So....she wasn't saying exactly what you're accusing me of? The one thing? In other words I may run faster than she, but she's far more knowledgeable and skilled than I am? So putting down where I'm at is putting her down? Are you kidding? So how would you have answered that Gid?

Reading your comments irks ME. How do you think it makes others feel?


What comments exactly irk you Gid? The one you attached wow on? Did you read what the very first comment was in this whole blog? I find it amusing you by-pass those types of comments directed at me (quite often) and then attack me for explaining where I'm coming from. Why is that? Why is ok for TW to spread lies and make nasty comments and you close your eyes to it Gid? Most of the time I do let these things go and I think you know that.

Your sort of judgmental attitude towards the parenting styles of those who disagree with you is EXACTLY what led to our problems with the local Baptist church.


First of all I WASNT'T the one with the judgmental attitude. I expressly said I agreed with Tova and Jay who spoke of diff styles and opinions. The problem here Gid is I'm not agreeing with YOUR opinion. That's the real truth because it's you and TW who have YOUR own judgmental attitudes. Your way or the highway. You plainly came out and basically said unless you have the child in bed with you for a year you're less than a parent. I disagree. But I expressly said what works for you is fine. You've said no such thing to me. As far as I'm concerned if you don't mind waking up or staying up until said child goes to sleep then by all means go for it. I don't agree with that style of parenting but it's not my child, it's yours. And I haven't EVEN SAID THAT HERE UNTIL NOW. I don't believe the will of the child should over rule his parents. Neither does Dobson who is much more trained and informed than any of us.

Just your bringing the church into the equation here shows me you're still harboring angst against these people and trying to tie me into it isn't fair. Helping a mom come up with a solution on nighttime patterns has nothing to do with the Baptist Church's attitude down the street from you.

Also, you too, slammed me with your comments. Is that what a Christian does to another?









on Sep 12, 2007
KFC, you have no idea what my background is or how much experience I have or don't have in schools, church nurseries, children's clubs and organizations, and otherwise. Haha.


I wasn't going after your experience. I have no idea what you've done or haven't done. Neither do you me. That's why I gave you a basic idea.

I am sure there are TONS of things you know way more than me about of which running is but ONE. See, that was the point. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was saying that I have you bested in all but running.


That's not how I took it TW, especially in lieu of the former exchanges.

Parenting isn't a competition.


WE agree. Common ground here TW.

Yes, you browbeat people with the Bible. How many times do JU'ers have to take you to task before you realize that the common factor in these disputes is YOU?


Wait a minute, wait a minute. That's not answering the question put to you. I asked you specifically to name a time lately when I have browbeat YOU with the bible. I get alot of this type of talk...others, You and Dharma I notice like to say this alot. Bring these "others" into it to give your argument more weight. Let's just stick to you. How have I offended you with the bible lately when I've been doing my best not to bring that up in your company? Most of my "bible" talk (if not all) has been on the religious forum. That's fair isn't it? If I have offended you I will apologize. But you need to give me specifics first.

And you have certainly written more than 2 articles about Ethan. I can link them if you'd like.


Go ahead. Link em. You specifically said I've been undermining my d-i-l's parenting in all sorts of blogs about Ethan. Go ahead show me. I still haven't figured out how I undermined her by buying him bubbles.

If I am "spreading lies" please set me straight.


First of all....just off the top of my head remembering what you wrote before I deleted you.....you mentioned Amanda and her unplanned pregnancy. You made a comment that she didn't tell me until way later and that she was just a girlfriend. That's not true. They both told me the day after the wedding. They left their honeymoon to tell us. She was trying to get thru the wedding before any of the family found out. Nobody knew. She also got pregnant AFTER they were already engaged. So she was a more than just a g/f. In fact they had dated 6 years. But just your bringing this up TW was hateful and spiteful. That's why I deleted you.

The other lie is your trying to make our relationship out to be awful when in fact it's quite good. She's spending the bulk of her time here with me. In fact over 5 weeks. And it's not because she HAS to. She's not the type to do this. If she didn't want to stay here. She wouldn't.

Those were two of the "lies" that bothered me because I know they were NOT true.







on Sep 13, 2007
Why is ok for TW to spread lies and make nasty comments and you close your eyes to it Gid?


Because of who you are, KFC. Fruits of the Spirit and all. I don't close my eyes to what TW says, and you can ask her. I have made SEVERAL comments on it, actually. Just apparently not on threads YOU visited.

Your way or the highway.


For MY family, YES, KFC. That was the issue. If this was YOUR child and you were saying "hey, time to put the kid to bed in the crib", that's your choice and I respect that. But this is your grandchild. That was the point.

You've said no such thing to me.


IT'S NOT YOUR CHILD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
on Sep 13, 2007
Texas Wahine had a really bad church experience. Gideon had a really bad church experience. Both of those experiences were created by people being hateful instead of loving, in a church.

You, KFC, go to a church. I believe you are the wife of a pastor, even. You, therefore, are the enemy.

It's Satan's great battle plan against you. The non-christian comes in with their shots, then you respond, then a Christian, who's "on your side" jumps on you about your response. Not only is the outside attacking us, the inside divides and that's just what Satan wants. It also discredits you and your church, which I'm sure does not teach you to respond harshly to anyone. But people, human beings, have emotions, and feelings, and make mistakes, and misunderstand each other, and perceive attacks where there are no attacks, and do all sorts of other things that make meaningful communication the hardest thing to accomplish in the whole world.

I'm not saying what you said was right or wrong, an attack or not. But if someone can see any attack in there, it's going to get pointed out and used against you. You know what you meant. How you come off to people is related more to them than it is to you. Remember Polly Anna, with the Lincoln quote? Anyone who searches for the evil in man will certainly find it. No quotes 'cuz I'm sure I messed it up. But seriously, everyone sins, so people can find a sin in you.

The key is what Lula posted. "A mild answer breaketh wrath; but a harsh word stirreth up fury."

That's God's truth right there. If you give a mild answer, the second part of the plan breaks down, and the non-christian has nothing against you.

Of course, in this forum, even a mild answer can get jumped on, but that's another post.
on Sep 13, 2007
Just your bringing the church into the equation here shows me you're still harboring angst against these people and trying to tie me into it isn't fair.


No, what I'm telling you, what I'm desperately trying to say, but you aren't hearing, is that I WANT to find redeeming qualities in the Baptist church, but all I find is hate and nastiness. It's pretty disillusioning to have to acknowledge that a theology you've held for 19 years may be wholly, utterly wrong.

Why is ok for TW to spread lies and make nasty comments and you close your eyes to it Gid?


One, you are a Christian. Two, you are a leader. You should set an example.

Two, I have called TW out on it many times. We've had several spats on this issue. You haven't seen it, but I have defended you on numerous occasions.

Is that what a Christian does to another?


Apparently it is, KFC. Because it's what I see Christians doing every day.

Somehow I hit an errant key and many of my comments got bumped. My issue here is, this isn't YOUR child. At what point do you heed the Bible's admonition to let your son and wife become their own family and raise their own children?

I'm SICK of seeing Christians CONSISTENTLY fail to evidence the gifts of the Spirit, KFC. I'm SICK of seeing people who preach the Great Commission and the Great Commandment Sunday morning and then go out and live lives that are in no way honoring to God the rest of the week. I'm SICK of it.

But what do I know? God gifted you with omniscience, you get to be nasty and hateful to anyone you want, any time you want, and you don't need to answer to God for it.

Here's what you don't know, KFC. You had a real effect on me for awhile. I was genuinely appreciating your input and your ministry. Then I see you act so nasty over a disagreement, and, honestly, it's pretty disillusioning to see you're just like all the rest of them. I tried to gently broach the subject, but you won't broach it. You basically called TW, myself and others, worthless parents because your OPINION disagrees with ours.

And by the way, James Dobson would be the FIRST to tell you he's not GOD! Even he has OPINIONS!



on Sep 13, 2007
I would recommend you read Dr. William Sears' work. Not only is he an experienced parent, and a long-time physician, but a Christian as well. His wife (a nurse) and a couple of his sons (also doctors) contribute to his books.

You can start with his website: www.askdrsears.com, but I really suggest checking out the Sears Parenting Library. Particularly The Baby Book and The Successful Child.

He is a good alternative to Dobson's junk.

The Boundaries series are also good and have a Christian slant.

There is another one I am thinking of that is sort of Christian-tinted but I can't remember the official name of it. It might be Positive Parenting. I attended a seminar on it and have the book. I will look for it.

I am about to crack into Parenting with Love and Logic by Foster W. Cline and Jim Fay. I have heard very good things about it.

There is a whole lot of good stuff out there.

I have to go pick my oldest up from Cub Scouts, but I will respond to your other comments when I get back.
on Sep 13, 2007
Grace-Based Parenting, maybe, TW? I picked that one up at a marriage conference, Weekend to Remember... great weekend. Forgot the whole applying what I learned part...
on Sep 13, 2007
Gideon had a really bad church experience. Both of those experiences were created by people being hateful instead of loving, in a church.


She doesn't care. People like me "don't matter". Obviously I don't cut the mustard for the kind of person she'd like to see in heaven, nor does TW, so she can be as nasty to us as she wants.
on Sep 13, 2007
I picked that one up at a marriage conference, Weekend to Remember... great weekend.


That IS a great marriage conference, jythier!
on Sep 13, 2007
Grace-Based Parenting, maybe, TW?


Ha. No.

It's probably "the Power of Positive Parenting".
on Sep 13, 2007
Ok, I found it. It's "Active Parenting". It's not really a religion-based program, but it IS very compatible with Christian principles.
on Sep 13, 2007
KFC: First, you are mixing me up with dharma.

Common mistake. We've both got two sons and a daughter. We're both military wives. Both sexy as can be. Haha.

If you will read what I said about the running thing carefully you will notice that it was not a slam. I was being silly.

OF COURSE you know more/are better at/have more experience with TONS of things. You are older than me and a very busy, active person. If you think I would tell ANYONE that they have only ONE thing that they understand or do better than I do, then...haha, you don't know me very well at all.

I suck at most things. Parenting...family...is my passion. I am not in competition with anyone else in this regard, but I do have strong opinions, a lot of experience for my age (nearly 30), and have put a lot of time into learning about how to care for and raise children.

I am NOT a perfect mother. I mess up a lot. Sometimes due to ignorance. Sometimes due to being overwhelmed or lazy or selfish. But I try. You will never meet another mother who loves her children any more than I love mine.

That is why I am the way I am about parenting issues. Because it matters to me. It matters to me the way faith and religion matter to you.

Please understand this about me.

Do I come off as a know-it-all sometimes? Of course I do.

Partly because I am confident in my opinions, partly because I have a strong personality, and partly because I am raising 3 children on my own for 15 months while my husband risks his life in Iraq and it makes me a little bit cranky.

I didn't say you browbeat ME with the Bible. You are correct that you haven't done that in some time, and I appreciate that.

I said you browbeat PEOPLE with the Bible. It's a really annoying habit that tends to be a real turn-off.

You don't have to guess about what I said in my deleted comment. I posted it on my blog. When I have something to say I stand by it. If I feel I am in the wrong I will apologize, but I do not hide something I've said just because it might be embarrassing.

I didn't make any kind of point about Amanda being a g/f v. being a fiance. Although, Scripturally, the 6 years of dating and the "engaged" status DO NOT make pre-marital sex any less of a sin.

It's just a way for you to justify and feel better about your child's "bad" choices.

(I put bad in quotations because in my personal opinion, the only thing they did wrong was hide it)

Re: the relationship between the two of you. Please re-read everything I've written on this matter. It is all clearly MY OPINION and MY IMPRESSIONS. I didn't assert anything as fact.

on Sep 13, 2007
I'd like to see both you AND TW in heaven. And KFC. And LW. And a whole lot of other people. Nevertheless, some people aren't going. But we both know, and KFC knows too, that it has zero to do with your conduct and everything to do with Jesus.

I know conduct is supposed to change after one is saved, but I also know it doesn't happen in a day.
on Sep 13, 2007
One, you are a Christian. Two, you are a leader. You should set an example.


Yes, of course and I'm trying to do this. But with the arrows flinging from all directions, I'm trying my best to stand up without getting hit.

Two, I have called TW out on it many times. We've had several spats on this issue. You haven't seen it, but I have defended you on numerous occasions.


My bad, but it's not been here so I can only go by what I see. I have all I can do to stay with my own threads occasionally going to the sidebar for additional reading when I can. Especially lately. But thanks for the defense. Maybe next time you can let me know. Actually I think I did see one time somewhere back a while when TW was bringing me up for some reason and I was kind of surprised at it all. Maybe that was it?

My issue here is, this isn't YOUR child. At what point do you heed the Bible's admonition to let your son and wife become their own family and raise their own children?


And I know this Gid. I'm actually teaching on this tomorrow. Col 3:20-21 Gen 2:24. Somehow this all got twisted. I have NO say in little Ethan's upbringing. He's only here for a few weeks and will be gone again. It's nothing like you all are surmising at all. You've gone wild with imaginations here. The way Amanda does things is not always the way I would do things, but that's neither good nor bad. Just different and he'll live thru it all. If I saw something really awful or neglectful than I would speak up. All I can do now is give her ideas as we go along and she can take them or leave them. This is all new to her and if I can think of something that helps her she's all for it.

I'm SICK of it.


So am I Gid. But we're all human and humans make mistakes. We are walking in a dirty sinful world and we are going to get dirty from time to time. It's not the getting dirty from time to time that's so bad, it's not getting cleansed or refusing the bath that so bad (Psalm 32). I just read that tonight. The first six verses are powerful.

But what do I know? God gifted you with omniscience, you get to be nasty and hateful to anyone you want, any time you want, and you don't need to answer to God for it.


there we go. Another slam as you tell me how bad I am. I'm going to call you on this Gid every time. I'm the nasty one? I'm being hateful? What have I said to you that is nasty or hateful? You just keep slamming me while you tell me how great Christians outside the church are and how bad we on the insider are.

You basically called TW, myself and others, worthless parents because your OPINION disagrees with ours.


Absolutly NOT. I have not nor would I ever say such a thing. Even after all the digs and slams I've had on this blog, now more by you than any other, would I say such a thing. I've searched each and every comment I've made here and not once did I even alude to this. But on the contrary I've been made out to be the neglective one because I would even dare to reccomend a 10 month old cry for 10 minutes at a time. Heck you should have heard some other moms up this way. One mom said she started at 8 weeks putting him down awake and letting him cry. Her third child. He was sleeping well in two-three days. Myself I was not as cool with that suggestion but her three kids seem well adjusted.

He is a good alternative to Dobson's junk.


now see TW. Do you have to say things like this? While I appreciate your other suggestions do you have to slam somebody in whom you KNOW I admire and agree with? This is what I'm talking about here. Your selections or authors are right on and mine are not. Isn't that what you're saying now? This is what you've been doing all along, and Gid is accusing me of doing this.

First off, I'm not about to read any of these books because like you and Gid have said, I'm past those years, but I will tell Amanda and she can check them out. I've vaguely heard of Sears and if you're talking Henry Cloud (Boundaries) I know who he is and have gone to one of his conferences lately.

There is a whole lot of good stuff out there.


I know there is and there's some not so good stuff out there also. Not the stuff you mentioned tho. My Dad used to say that Spock wrecked a whole couple of generations of kids with his stuff. I guess it was the permissiveness parenting style that he witnessed over the years.

She doesn't care. People like me "don't matter". Obviously I don't cut the mustard for the kind of person she'd like to see in heaven, nor does TW, so she can be as nasty to us as she wants.


That's not true at all Gid. I do care. A lot actually. I pray for many of you here on JU regularly. If I didn't care would I bother? I don't want to see any of my friends or acquaintences outside of heaven. I want them there with me. So this is unfair Gid. Did you have a bad day today and I'm just the best Christian to kick around today? Cuz that's how I feel right now. I'm still not getting where I've been nasty. If you can show me I'd like to either explain or apologize for it.

I'm still waiting on TW showing me where I've slammed her with the bible. Or is that brow beating?
on Sep 13, 2007
I especially liked the use of the phrase, "almost GUARANTEE" which has the guarantee highlighted so that people think, wow, she can guarantee it! While really she can only ALMOST guarantee it, so she can defend her position later as "I said ALMOST..."
7 PagesFirst 2 3 4 5 6  Last