To Sleep or Not To Sleep?
Published on September 10, 2007 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Home & Family
So here I am trying to do some catch up work on the computer. I have my household budget on Quick Books and am doing much needed data input. In the background is a screaming 10 month old baby. His mommy, my d-i-l, is not feeling well and my heart goes out to her. I remember those days. She came down with a cold yesterday. I remember taking care of my babies and being so exhausted I couldn't think straight especially when I was ill. So after spending the day chasing the little boy around the house she decided to go to bed early with him. I think maybe that wasn't such a good idea now because it's 10:30 and he's in an on and off crying mode..

She's a great mommy. She's doing a great job with Ethan. She's very attentive and reminds me of me. We both had our first at the same age. We both were very inexperienced with babies. Actually she's a few months younger than I was when I had my first. I was determined to be the best mom the second they put that beautiful newborn into my arms. My son, in contrast to Ethan tho, was a very quiet and submissive baby. He was sleeping well by the end of his first month. I never ever woke up with him in the middle of the night after that.

Ethan's a healthy happy baby until he isn't the center of attention, that is. He's absolutely perfect looking. He's charmed everyone he's come into contact with. One thing I think she's just starting to understand about this beautiful little boy is that he's very strong willed. He's got her wrapped, totally, and I can see she's exhausted. He's a master manipulator and is going to be just like his daddy. I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree afterall.

My son and she are are alone in another state with no family, so they have been at this new parenting thing virtually all by themselves. With Brian working so often, much of this child rearing is on her shoulders.

Her first week here she spent alot of time trying to cajole him to sleep sometimes taking two hours or so to do so. One night he just flat out refused to be cajoled still wide awake at 11 pm. He's in the habit of going down to bed asleep in his mommy's arms since birth. He's very big now and this is getting harder and harder to do. Big mistake we told her. It's time he goes down awake. He may cry (and he did) some but it's time for him to go to bed and for mommy to have some down time. She needs a break. She's exhausted.

The first night he cried for about an hour or so and she was a wreck. Her goal I think has been to avoid any confrontation with crying as much as possible. He lived. He actually woke up the next day seemingly in a good mood. None the worse for wear. The next night he cried again and by the third night or so only cried for 10 minutes. Of course her reaction was total and absolute freedom. It was starting to look up.....until tonight.

The bad thing is I have to work all day tomorrow so she's on her own. I hope she eventually gets some sleep tonight. All is quiet now and it's 11 pm. So maybe. But he's yet to sleep thru the night so he'll probably re-awake about 2 or 3 or so. But just maybe this crying jag tonight will have worn him out enough to make it thru. We'll see.

Maybe she'll let me have him one night, so she can get a whole night of uninterrupted sleep. Just Ethan and Nanny. I can always call in the reinforcement. His name is Papa and Ethan is just crazy about him.







Comments (Page 2)
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on Sep 12, 2007
Every family has their own routines and schedules.


Umm, actually, that's my point, KFC.

Your son and daughter in law are their own family now. You're very right, of course, and I would never for a second argue that you didn't raise your children to the best of your ability. All I am saying is that your son and daughter in law have the right to do the same.

Yes, it is a debatable subject. You might win points if you let them have THEIR side on it
on Sep 12, 2007
You might win points if you let them have THEIR side on it


and who says I'm not?

To have an opinion and to demand a result are two diff things. When Amanda asks, I answer. She's been asking. I answer.

She's the one that will have to go home with him. We are not going to be there. So obviously they have complete control of their family, not us. In fact this is only the second time we've even seen them since he was born. She's looking for a better way since she's getting tired of the long fussy nighttime routine.





on Sep 12, 2007
Especially since he is such a volunteer. Heh. They will have to negotiate how often he volunteers for something away from home or resentment will start to build. Or at least that is my experience.


TOVA

Yes, I agree. He's built up quite a bit of leave time but he keeps getting involved in a new project. Amanda said he can only build up so much before he starts to lose it. He wants to get ahead and he seems to love to work. He's been in over two years so far and no vacation yet.

I suggested he should take some of that leave time and be with his family soon. They need him and it would be good for him as well to get some R&R. He downplays it, but I'm hoping he LISTENS TO HIS MOTHER!!! .





on Sep 12, 2007

As for the baby crying, let me relate a story, KFC.

With each of ours, they chose when to sleep through the night.  OUr oldest started at 6 weeks, and the others from 2 months to 4 months.  That is what I found out with the 3rd baby.  The first was an easy one, the second was a bear. So when the 3rd was born, I was looking to see which one she would take after.  The answer was - neither!  So we were not surprised with the 4th had his own idiocyncracies.

Funny thing about Grandparents.  We may not think they know much when we start out in life (as our parents), but they sure get wise after we have raised our own!

on Sep 12, 2007
Amanda said he can only build up so much before he starts to lose it.


It's called 'use or lose' status, and it happens if you have 60 days or more of leave at the end of the fiscal year (October). AF Personnel get 30 days of paid leave per year.

I can't say anything nice about your article, so I'm going to shut up now.
on Sep 12, 2007

Big mistake we told her. It's time he goes down awake. He may cry (and he did) some but it's time for him to go to bed and for mommy to have some down time.

Hmmm...that sounds a lot like "I know best", even though you are trying to say that you are merely giving helpful advise.

Each kid is different, and some are just more insecure and needy.  10 months old is still a baby.  Does she work?  Does she have a reason (other than "me" time) that she can't hold her baby to get to sleep?

My daughter was colicky and would cry until she threw up if I let her.  I rocked her to sleep or held her for the first year of her life.  She needed that, and it would have been selfish of me not to fulfill that need.  I used to go to work in the morning with very little sleep, but that was a sacrifice that I was willing to make so that my baby would get the comfort that she needed.

If the baby isn't content, there is probably another reason other than he hasn't been "trained" right.  Some babies are only a couple months old when they sleep through the night, others are a year+.  If a baby cries, there is a reason, to ignore that just seems like selfishness to me.

on Sep 12, 2007
I suggested he should take some of that leave time and be with his family soon. They need him and it would be good for him as well to get some R&R. He downplays it, but I'm hoping he LISTENS TO HIS MOTHER!!!


hahaha.

Well if they need money....he can sell 30 days back to the gov. But I wouldn't recommend it as a LT. Better to wait until it is really necessary (and he's a high rank and gets more $ for it, heh.)

I think Amanda is a great mom. I also think its nice she has a family who cares and is willing to help her. Not everyone is so fortunate.

Maybe she needs to sit down with Bri, look him in the eye and tell him, "TAKE TIME OFF! The AF survived 60 years without you, it can certainly make it a month or so more. If you disappeared tomorrow off the face of the earth, the AF wouldn't even notice, they'd fill your slot and move on. But I would notice...Ethan would notice! We need some time with you."

If that doesn't work...she can always call his boss and tell him to order Bri to take some time off...hahahaaha. (Wives actually do that sometimes. My husband gets a few calls a year from wives wanting hubby to take time off, or wanting to know if the AF is MAKING him go TDY or if he volunteered.) If Brian has a good commander, that commander will listen to Amanda........just a thought.

on Sep 12, 2007
She needed that, and it would have been selfish of me not to fulfill that need. I used to go to work in the morning with very little sleep, but that was a sacrifice that I was willing to make so that my baby would get the comfort that she needed.


Karma, I am not attacking but would like to use this to make a point.

Who was meeting her needs while you were at work? Your husband? What if your husband wasn't available? What if you lived in a new state with no friends or family around to help? Would you leave her with strangers and hope they met her needs? Is that selfish?

Here is my point. (Bet ya didn't think I'd get to it did ya?) I believe most parents do their best for their kids. A new parent can go crazy trying to keep up with rock don't rock, back or stomach or side, black and white mobile or color, nursing or bottle, work or don't work, crib or family bed, solids at 5 months or breast milk until a year....

It goes on and on as I am sure you know.

The two people here that love baby Ethan and want the best for him are KFC and Amanda. Amanda may not make every perfect decision, but she does need some down time to be an effective mother. The only time she can get (with her husbands working schedule) is at night. I can understand wanting the support of the MIL while trying to train a baby to fall asleep. It is hard and heart wrenching...and whether its best or not is debated and probably always will be. But for this mom, for this family, it is what is needed, what is in fact best for the family.

I think we should support new young moms, help them when they ask, and not be offended when they ignore all our wonderful advice!

on Sep 12, 2007
Life as a mother, as far as I can tell, is a constant struggle between what you want and what your kids want. It's a balancing act. Resenting your baby isn't good for anyone. Ignoring your baby isn't good for anyone, either. If the holding the baby all night path isn't working, why not try the cry it out path? Oh no, the baby may be emotionally scarred forever! Yeah right. Maybe if you hold the baby to put it to sleep it'll have insomnia for its entire adult life. All babies are different, and all parents are different. I really think it's silliness to criticize anyone's parenting decisions unless it's negligent or abusive. The crying it out method worked for my oldest. He did not cry for an extended period of time, but sometimes, as parents, we would get so frustrated with him that it was better off for everyone to take a break from night-night time, and we would put him in his crib... lo and behold, after 15 minutes, he was asleep.

Holding them until they fall asleep isn't abusive, either - bonding with your parent is great. That's how we put my oldest to sleep most of the time - the CIO happened when he would wake back up as we put him in his crib (one of the most frustrating baby maneuvers).

With our youngest, he puts himself to sleep at night, and we put him to sleep for naps. He does not cry though, and if he does we check on him because it means something's wrong. But when he cries just because you put him down, it's frustrating - especially when you've been holding him all day long, too.
on Sep 12, 2007
I can't say anything nice about your article, so I'm going to shut up now.


Thanks dharma. I think that's the kindest and wisest thing you've ever said to me.

My husband gets a few calls a year from wives wanting hubby to take time off, or wanting to know if the AF is MAKING him go TDY or if he volunteered.) If Brian has a good commander, that commander will listen to Amanda........just a thought.


ha! All I could think of is the husbands getting all embarrased about their wives calling on their behalf. Amanda read all you wrote Tova and she's getting some great ideas!!! Thanks for the info.

But when he cries just because you put him down, it's frustrating - especially when you've been holding him all day long, too.


Yes, this is where Amanda is with Ethan. He's not crying because anything is wrong but because he's willing himself to stay up. He doesn't want to miss a beat but ends up cranky because he's not sleeping.

Good stuff Jythier. Again you're pretty much in line with my way of thinking as well.

on Sep 12, 2007

Who was meeting her needs while you were at work? Your husband? What if your husband wasn't available? What if you lived in a new state with no friends or family around to help? Would you leave her with strangers and hope they met her needs? Is that selfish?

Nice try, but you know so little about me.  I only worked when she was small because my parents LIVED with me and my husband and I supported all of us.  She was left in the hands of my parents, and she still sees them every day after school.  She has never had a babysitter (other than family)and there is no way I would leave her with strangers.  Also, very importantly, they took care of her as *I* saw fit, not how *they* saw fit.

BTW, I really hate the term "train" the baby to go to sleep.  Sleep is natural, and just like adults, if the baby can't fall asleep easily, there is a reason.  Ignoring that just doesn't seem right.

on Sep 12, 2007
Sleep is natural, sure, but a bedtime routine is the best way to establish when sleep should happen. If the bedtime routine is engrained in them to be rocked to sleep, they will want to be rocked to sleep. If you no longer want to rock them to sleep, because it's time, then there will be a time when the baby wants to sleep, so wants to be rocked. That is the only problem with going to sleep - not rocking. There is no other problem. So baby cries. Then baby goes to sleep anyway, and learns that rocking isn't the only way to get there.
on Sep 12, 2007
BTW, I really hate the term "train"


Sleep is natural


so isn't pooping!!!! Soooooo you didn't potty "train" your little girl Karma? Geeesh

Then baby goes to sleep anyway, and learns that rocking isn't the only way to get there.


bingo!! Common sense here.

She has never had a babysitter


well Karma we found some common ground here. I felt the same way with my three. They never had a babysitter either. I chose not to work and we scraped by because of it. But it paid great dividends down the road and I don't regret a single moment.

The two people here that love baby Ethan and want the best for him are KFC and Amanda


and along with daddy and Papa this baby is a very well loved little boy.

and you're absolutely right about down town with Brian Tova. She gets very little time with him and most of that time has been trying to get Ethan to go to sleep. She does desire a better more efficient plan.

BTW...Amanda's read this thread and TW's and laughed.



on Sep 12, 2007
I only worked when she was small because my parents LIVED with me and my husband and I supported all of us. She was left in the hands of my parents, and she still sees them every day after school. She has never had a babysitter (other than family)and there is no way I would leave her with strangers. Also, very importantly, they took care of her as *I* saw fit, not how *they* saw fit.


I understand that....you working wasn't my point and I wasn't "trying" anything. My point is you did what you felt was best for your child. Not all parents agree that a mom who works outside the home is doing what's best for her kid. Just like all don't agree on CIO and sleep time procedures.

If your parents didn't live with you and you lived in a place with no family or anyone to help...would you consider it selfish to need some time off? Would you want other people to criticize you for it? Do you think its right for people to criticize you for working outside the home? Or would you expect a little help and advice when visiting family?

I read this article as written, as a grandma blogging about her grandson.

on Sep 12, 2007
Haha, I am SOOO glad you are not my MIL and I'll bet your DIL has some interesting things to say about you behind your back!



Shame on you, TexasWahine, for this most hurtful comment.

If you own a Bible, I'd advise reading Proverbs 14 and 15. It's about what wise people do and you have displayed that you need some solid advice in that area.

Here are few:

"A mild answer breaketh wrath; but a harsh word stirreth up fury."

A peaceful tongue is a tree of life, but that which is immoderate, shall crush the spirit.

The tongue of the wise adorneth knoweldge, but the mouth of fools bubbleth out folly.

The mind of the just sutdieth obedience; while the mouth of the wicked overflows with evil.

Just lips are the delight of kings; he that speaketh right things shall be loved.

The lips of a fool is his destruction; and his lips are the ruin of his soul.

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