What are the seals? What is this scroll? Will there actually be horses, or is that a metaphor for cars, or something? This book has always seemed like a bad acid trip, to me. Sorry.

Presuming God wants to get some message out, why make it so impossible to interpret? Why not just have office hours where we can ask questions...directly? If you say "prayer" and that God answers in your heart, I will quickly tell you that I DO pray, and this is what is answered.

Imagine you are the father of a child, and you tell the child "I have rules...don't break any of them" but some of the rules are ambiguous. You wonder, for example, if bearing false witness harms no one but spares someone's feelings, is it ok? You wonder if stealing from some guy that has an abundance of resources that you know were ill-gotten to help someone that is dying is ok. How do you get the right answer with the limitations you're BORN WITH?

You must do one thing to make everything black and white. You have to forsake thinking about it at all and live your life by the Book. But if you do that, you are forsaking the very thing that makes us human - the ability to cogitate. Is that not a sin? Before you answer, how many horrible things do you think would be averted if people really thought about them first.

I appreciate your dedication, KFC, but I could appreciate it more if I saw you launch cogent arguments that were YOURS, not the Book's. Granted, I haven't read all your stuff, so maybe it's there somewhere, but everything I have read is just a regurgitation of someone else's mind - like you have none of your own, or something.

Take heed that no one deceives you.

There's only one way to do that, and that's not to believe everything you hear. You have to *think*. So how are we unbelievers supposed to do that when you state no logical argument of your own. Maybe it's YOU doing the deceiving. How should I know that for sure? Do I have to have faith in you now, too?

One thing is fortunate. You know you're going to heaven for a fact because you've crossed all the 'T's and dotted all the 'I's according to your "don't think, just do" reference book. Maybe you should quit while you're ahead, because recruiting other people who also don't think is an easy job. Says so right here:

For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

The "many" that will be deceived are the same ones buying StayHard™ and BreastPlants™ because they share one thing in common. They don't think. At all. And they hold fast to the belief that there is a get out of jail free card for human suffering.

I DO think, and if hell is my reward for using the brain I was given, I have no interest in your heaven whatsoever.

Love,
Ock

Well, if you don't want to spend eternity with God, who are we to force you, Ock? God doesn't even do that.

"You wonder, for example, if bearing false witness harms no one but spares someone's feelings, is it ok? You wonder if stealing from some guy that has an abundance of resources that you know were ill-gotten to help someone that is dying is ok. How do you get the right answer with the limitations you're BORN WITH?"

Give an example of a case of bearing false witness harming no one but sparing someone's feelings.

"Stealing from someone with an abundance of resources that you know were ill-gotten to help someone that is dying?"

Use your own resources.

Give an example of a case of bearing false witness harming no one but sparing someone's feelings.

Your wife asks "Do I look fat in this dress?" She does, but you say "No"

She's hurt when she looks in the mirror and realizes I lied to her. Gimme another one.

Or, her reputation is hurt when she goes out in public and looks fat all night.

Well, if you don't want to spend eternity with God, who are we to force you, Ock?

That's not what I said, J. I said I have no interest in YOUR heaven. I think you've got it all wrong. God told me so.

She's hurt when she looks in the mirror and realizes I lied to her.

No offense...do you have a woman in your life? She already looked in the mirror...several times. What she wants is your approval, not the truth.

I've hijacked this thread...not my intent. I'll stop now

Oh, sorry, my wife doesn't look in the mirror before she asks me. She also wants to know what I really think. But, if she wants your approval, you don't say "No" you say "You look beautiful!" because she does, regardless of what she's wearing, right? So no more hijacking? Man... But Lula and KFC are going to argue for 20 pages anyway, why can't we have fun too?

Hey, Ock, can you show me where you said what is right? I'm interested now to see what it says and argue with you about it.

Hey, Ock, can you show me where you said what is right? I'm interested now to see what it says and argue with you about it

This one is a quote of someone else. but it sounds very reasonable to me. I can't find a logical flaw in it.

This one is mine. And you've already substantiated it by placing the wrongness or rightness of an event as being determined by the events that surround it. (Example, I tell my wife she doesn't look fat in a dress, and then you say but she goes out and her reputation suffers because I didn't say so. Perfect example of what this article speaks of.)

And you'll get no argument from me. If you'd like to think together, I can do that.

Thanks again, Ock, for taking the time. I read through Quantum Truth, but I am having trouble reading the second one. If he had not talked so eloquently it would have been easier to see all his flawed presumptions. I will not go into it here, nor will I resurrect an old thread. Perhaps I will start my own thread about it.

As for Quantum truth, your point was that a lie could be good or evil based on the circumstances. I say that regardless of what circumstances you put around it, a lie is still wrong. Also, you started with the premise that feelings being spared is good! Is it? Well, that's depends on the circumstances - but bearing false witness does NOT depend on the circumstances.

OCKHAMSRAZOR POSTS:



Hi Ock,

The answer to what is the scroll can be found in KFC's "Revelation 5: 1-7. Who is Worthy?" There is mention of the seals there too; I think enough to give you a foundational understanding.

If he had not talked so eloquently it would have been easier to see all his flawed presumptions. I will not go into it here, nor will I resurrect an old thread. Perhaps I will start my own thread about it.

You can start with the fact that it's a she that wrote that.

Hi Ock, The answer to what is the scroll can be found in KFC's "Revelation 5: 1-7. Who is Worthy?" There is mention of the seals there too; I think enough to give you a foundational understanding.

I'm sorry, you've misunderstood me. I've read the bible several times. I'm asking about the nature of these objects. Where are they from? Why do they need to exist? Why am I even asking? The only answers you'll have for me will be more of the same. See if you can answer without quoting from the book. Consider it an exercise.

He, she, what is a female? What is a male? Was it a he trapped in a woman's body? How do we know? What is truth?

OCKHAMSVIZOR POSTS:

Since both the scroll and the seals are found in the Book of the Apocalypse, we know they symbolize images which depict the course of the world towards its end. This is not mere happenstance that they are mentioned there or anything else that's in Scripture for that matter.

God, Himself, is speaking to us through the pages of Scripture. From it, we can learn how we ought to live, what will happen to us when we die and a myriad of other things.

Although externally history might appear as a chain of human decisions, as a linked series of human actions and omissions, this external view doesn't give a complete picture for history is determined by the decisions of God Himself. God as our Creator is bringing His Creation towards the goal He set for it. With the Incarnation of His Son, Jesus Christ, God Himself passed into history of His world and with this happening He has posited the real and decisive deed of history.

Scripture tells us about Christ, now raised at the right hand of God, has thus become the destiny of the world. In this Book, St. John tells the future eternal form of God's Creation.