They Are Coming
Published on August 7, 2007 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Religion
I got behind so I'm cranking now. We are going to look at the breaking of the seals and the first thing we see are the four Apocalyptic Horsemen. Many know about these four even if they don't know the book of Revelation. Revelation 6:1-8 says:

1Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” 2And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.
3When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” 4Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.
5When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”
7When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.


Throughout this disturbing event of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse with the breaking of the first four seals of the scroll, we read and understand that God is in control. He's allowing this to happen. We see repeatedly the phrase "was given to him." This means to hand over. God is giving the next horseman the ability to do what is about to happen. These horsemen are doing the business of God. Only He knows what's written on the scroll that He's unrolling and unsealing.

As we read about the breaking of the seals we see a close relationship here with Matthew 24:3-7. We see the first four seals in this section of Matthew. Keep this passage in mind as we go thru this seciton in Revelation. Compare the two.

3Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” 4And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5“For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6“And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7“For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8“All these are the beginning of sorrows.

As we look at V1 we see John staring at the Lamb and what He was about to do. There's no question as to who was going to open this scroll. We already covered that in the last chapter. He hears thunder. Again, nothing quiet here. What is this thunder? Is it God ordering the rider to come? Some believe this is Christ on this first horse but it makes no sense. Jesus is opening the seal. Will He come out on the horse too?

The rider of the horse has a weapon. It's a bow. This is a common weapon used by the enemy. Christ uses the sword. This crown is one of victory not royalty and is different than Revelation 19. A command is given and one is going to carry this out as he is commanded to do.

The rider on this white horse is the Anti-Christ. God is allowing the Anti Christ to do his work on the earth. He's being released to go ahead and do his thing. The white is symbolic for conquest and victory. Christ is not going to conquer the world by force. At first his method of conquest does not seem to include open warfare since peace is not remeoved from the earth until the second seal is opened. He's going to come as one in peace to deceive the masses. He's going to lull them to sleep first. He has a bow, but no arrows. He will come in peace, but it will be a false peace. Beware.

The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie. 2 Thess 2:9-11

For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 1 Thess 5:3

Next we see the second seal is open. Another horse but of a different color. This is blood red and is a horse of war. Now men will bring judgment on themselves with the sword. There will be widespread wars like never before. Just as Jesus had told his disciples back in Matthew 24 there will be many wars but like never before.

The third seal is now opened. This horse is black and represents famine and disease. Famine always follows war. Instead of tending their plows the men are too busy fighting for their lives and the lives of their families. Their plowshares are turned to spears and their pruning hooks to swords. Only when the real Christ comes again will the spears be turned to plowshares and the swords to pruning hooks. How many know that this is written on the UN building in New York?

We see a pair of balances in the rider's hand. Wheat is representative of a staple and a denarius or a penny represents one day's work. Barley is used to stretch wheat. It's a cheaper grain. Many thoughts here on the oil and wine. Some believe that the rich will not be hurt during this time. They will not be as affected as the common man. Some believe that this means there will be a limit on this famine. That this is just a toning down of the intensity for now. The heat will be turned up as this all gets played out.

Now we have the fourth seal broken. We see a pale horse. It's a yellowish green; corpse like. This is the only horse where the rider is named. His name is death. Death and Hades are his common companions. Death always follows close by famine.

We see here that one fourth of the earth's population will die during this time. Now something to think about. During WWI something like 10 million died. During WWII about 22 million died.

Right now we have about 6.6 billion people alive all over the world. If we take one fourth of this we end up with 1.65 billion dead. Many more than WWII even. We know Christ said that this will be unlike any other time.

For those who believe Revelation was already fulfilled during 70AD think about the numbers. Do the math. The historians during Jesus day figured there were about 200 million alive. If you take the one fourth of that number that would make about 50 million dead but using the highest estimate given at the time only 1.3 million died during Nero's time. This would be between 67-70 AD. Not even close to the one fourth spoken of here in Revelation. Do the math. It's very short of what scripture says here.

There's no way Revelation has been fulfilled from this angle. This is all still to come.

What this all means is there will be chaos on earth like never before. We don't know when these horsemen are coming. Quite a few years ago Billy Graham wrote a book about these horsemen. I think the book was called "The Horsemen are Coming" or something to that effect. They are about to be unleashed anytime. It could be tonight or tomorrow.

"repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. " Matthew 4:17b

Repent or face the wrath of the Lamb. There's only two choices. This chapter begins the wrath of God concluding in Chapter 19. It's not going to be like anything we've every experienced on earth before. The only thing even remotely comparable would be the flood.

1But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. 11Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing. 1 Thess 5:1-11

Comments (Page 4)
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on Aug 20, 2007
Lula posts:
Christ said that Daniel's Son of man would come in judgment during the Sanhedrin's generation


That's why noting the word "this" and "this generation" is so important in understanding this prophecy.


KFC POSTS:
There is nothing about "this generation" here at all. That is in Matthew 24:34 and says in the middle of a passage there:

"Verily I say to you, "this generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled."

He's speaking of a parable and then he speaks about the generation that will see this happen. They will see the start, middle and finish of it. He's not talking about those living then. ... You're assuming it means that particular generation standing. Obviously it can't be because these things didn't happen yet.


Yes, I do interpret 'this generation' as meaning that particular generation standing, that is the generation within 40 years of Jesus.

St.Matt. 24 ends by Christ saying, “Truly, I say to you , all this will come upon this generation.”

I think that the word “this” and “this generation” is not about the future final tribulation or about the Antichrist, rather it’s regarding the Jews of the first century and the fulfillment of St.Matt. 24 was accomplished at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD which is none other than Daniel’s 70th week.

Jesus promised that He would come again in judgment on His accusers within their lifetime. Since those who heard Jesus make this prophecy were well versed in the Old Testament, the destruction of the Roman army over Jerusalem would have been universally understood as the fulfillment of this prophecy. This is the same as He came in the clouds in judgment to the Egyptians via the Assyrian army. Later, King Belshazzar witnessed God’s coming in the Persian army as meted out His Judgment on Babylon. The tribes of the land did see in the destruction of Jerusalem an mistakeable sign that the rejected “Son of man came in the clouds”, that is enthroned in Heaven, in judgment of them. All the Jews would have understood the Roman destruction as exactly that.

That's why it's important to note the words "this" and "this generation" in understanding this prophecy.

Christ told His disciples that within their generation, 8 signs would point to the destruction of the Temple. These all occurred. The signs warned of His judgment upon the Sanhedrin--the "Son of man " coming in judgment that Daniel foresaw 6 centuries earlier. The judgment occurred within a generation, just as Jesus predicted it would.



on Aug 20, 2007
Last point in rebuttal to your #42 and 43 posts...

There is nothing about "this generation" here at all. That is in Matthew 24:34 and says in the middle of a passage there:

"Verily I say to you, "this generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled."

He's speaking of a parable and then he speaks about the generation that will see this happen. They will see the start, middle and finish of it. He's not talking about those living then.


I think He is talking about those living then.

Once we understand the first century context, we can say that Jesus kept His word in St.Matt. 24. The coming of the Son of man in judgment can certainly be veiwed as already fulfilled in 70AD.

Christ finished His answer to the first question with a parable, the fig-tree analagy and this is where this quote 24:34 you cite follows. “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know the summer is near, at the very gates. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place.”

Here Jesus uses the fig tree because it’s plentiful in Judea and when it puts out its leaves, summer is upon Israel. The disciples all know this well. Same thing when the 8 signs occur, the coming of the Son of man in judgment will be near as well, so near He will be at the very gates. Yes, KFC, all 8 signs appeared and were fulfilled in the first century.


Does this parable have eschatological implications, sure it does. The future application of the 'fig tree with leaves but no fruit, could likely point to a national, but non-spiritual re-gathering of Israel as a sign of the end of the age.

It's safe to say, without assuming, that St. Matt. 24 should be interpretated on multiple levels each with its own historical fulfillment. The very same can be said about the Apocalypse.

Multiple applications of the APocalype's prophecies would include both an imminent fulfillment of the destruction of Jerusalem along with chastisements upon the apostates in the Church and nations, both which certainly occurred in the first century and throughout the Church age.

It seems to me that so far we have seen the Apocalypse portrays these judgments (chastisements) in detail. Ch. 1 introduces Christ as judge of the Churches. Ch. 2 and 3 warns the Churches that the Lord's judgment will come upon them if they do not repent of their deeds. These chastisments are amplified in increasing intensity in Ch. 4, 5, 10 and 15. We see how the chastisemsnts are ordained by the watchful eye and decree of Heaven.

I'll be looking at Ch. 6, 8, 9, 11, 13, 16, 17, 18 as showing how Heaven brings the chastisements upon the Churches for their misdeeds, and the misdeeds of nations who collaborate with her. Interspersed among these chastisements are assurances from heaven that the faithful within the Chruch will be saved Ch. 7, 10, 12, 14, 19, 21, 22.

The judgments upon the Church are the anti-type of the same judgments upon OT Israel, including the final judgment as St.Matt. 24 details.

on Aug 21, 2007
KFC, the only way this HAS To be the generation still future is for the Rapture theory to hold.


No it doesn't have to be. You don't have to believe in the rapture at all to believe that Christ is talking about the future generation being there and seeing these things come to pass. "This generation" makes more sense for end times not for 70 AD for a few reasons. One you run into Matt 24:27 and another it's put there right in the middle of the parable of the fig tree. It's talking about the fig tree (Israel) being yet tender. When you see Israel (a very young nation by all standards today)as a tender tree sprouting then this would be the time. This generation will see these things. Can you see it this way at all?

In order to accomplish this, Rapture theory puts a 2,000 plus time span in between Daniel's 69th week, (Christ's death) and his 70th week which is when the Son of man comes on the clouds in judgment. I'm saying this prophecy in St.Matthew describes Daniel's 70th week to a "T",


Yes, I agree. But again, it's nothing to do with the Rapture. That's totally separate. The only part I disagree here with you is that you have put this with 70AD. The rest I agree.

We know the Temple was standing when Jesus spoke this prophecy and even when St.Matthew wrote his Gospel account in 50AD, right?


Yes, I agree Christ was talking 70AD in the beginning of Matthew 24 but switches to the discourse of the end times starting in v4. This answer from v4 on is in reply to the question in v3. What shall be the sign of your coming and the end of the age. You keep insisting that v4 onward is about 70AD. I don't believe it, neither do many others. Try to read it again, thinking this way and see if it makes more sense.



on Aug 21, 2007
LULA POSTS:
And so, the disciples ask 2 questions. “Tell us when will THIS be (meaning when the Temple will be thrown down) and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the close of the age.” 24:3.



I think that the word “this” and “this generation” is not about the future final tribulation or about the Antichrist, rather it’s regarding the Jews of the first century and the fulfillment of St.Matt. 24 was accomplished at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD which is none other than Daniel’s 70th week.


KFC POSTS:
......to believe that Christ is talking about the future generation being there and seeing these things come to pass. "This generation" makes more sense for end times not for 70 AD for a few reasons......



KFC, I can't see how the words "this generation" can be applied to the future at all. It was just before His Passion when Christ answered these 2 questions. This places the event at the halfway point of Daniel's final week. Christ predicts the events that will take place at the end of those 7 decades of covenantal transition. Daniel's 70th week has been fulfilled at the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70AD which was the generation of Christ, the Sanhedrin and His disciples.


Try to read it again, thinking this way and see if it makes more sense.


I did...and this is what I came up with...

Christ answers the questions in the order in which they are asked. The disciples first ask, When will the Temple be destroyed? In St.Matt. 24:4-26,32-35 Christ prophecies 8 signs (events) describing the Great Tribulation that encompassed 7 years of upheaval, suffering and persecution for the early Christians in Judea that led finally to the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. The same is laid out in St.Mark 13:1-31 and St.Luke 21: 5-33. St.Matt. 24:36-44 and also St.Mark 13:32-37 and St.Luke 17: 22-37 answers the 2nd question.

As I read it, all the details of the first question should be fulfilled in one generation, as Christ predicted, and the details of the second question are still in the future at the Second Coming of our Lord, Jesus Christ.


Notice the word "you" in the following verses and think twice whether or not they mean the disciples and Christians alive then or someone 2,000 or more years away in the future. St.Matt. 24: 9, 15,20, 25,26,32, 33, 34.

9, "then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake."
15, "So when you see the desolating sacrilege spoken by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand, then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains;"
20, "Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a sabbath."
25 "Lo, i have told you beforehand."
26, "So,if they say to you, Lo, he is in the wilderness.."
32, "From the fig tree learn its lesson" as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near."
33, "So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.
34, "Truly, I say to you, this generation will pass away, but my words will not pass away."

All of these you's preceed "this generation". Even grammatically, this seems to mean that Christ was referring firstly to the generation alive at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

One you run into Matt 24:27


Granted, we do. Interwoven with the prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem comes Jesus' mysterious words whose meaning is obscure of His Second Coming. This is really no problem though, since the signs in the prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem are symbolic of the end of the world so the Lord was speaking not only of the generation then living, but also of the generation of believers who would follow.
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