I commented on this, but decided to write it into an article because it got too long: https://forums.joeuser.com/?forumid=16&aid=139474

May you have a very blessed peaceful Christmas.

thank you may you and yours too have a wonderful warm fun and sharing time.

I'm late to the party but thought I would add my two cents. I believe that Santa is the spirit of Christmas personified. Do many people focus on Santa more than Jesus, yes. Does this make Santa evil, no. I think this is the only nugget of truth in the essay. Yes, I think people have their priorities out whack as far as the true meaning of Christmas but saying that Santa is satan is ridiculous. Santa is not selfish. He gives generously to everyone. Santa rewards good behavior. And if Santa's fat it's because we all feed him cookies. I guess that's an offering to the dark lord.

I have a figurine of Santa kneeling before Jesus and I think that puts it all in perspective. Santa is serving Jesus. I also do not know anyone who worships Santa. I know no one who says prayers to Santa. I have never seen a church of Santa. I don't think anyone has started pilgrimages to the north pole.

I think the whole idea of red being an evil color is absolutely ridiculous. Where di the color red come from? Um, God made it. I'm wearing red lipstick and a red shirt today. I must be serving the devil. How ridiculous is that concept?

You two are a real pair, you know that? You make vomit rise in my mouth.So does KFC

You must enjoy the feeling because I can't seem to get rid of you.

So go get the bucket. Because I have a feeling you're gonna need it.

I believe that Santa is the spirit of Christmas personified.

PIE is the spirit of Christmas personified! PIE! PIE! PIE!

I got caught up in the "war on Christmas" and the "anti-war on Christmas" debate last year. Not this year, baby! Bring on the Cool Whip!

PIE is the spirit of Christmas personified! PIE! PIE! PIE!

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmpiewithcoolwhip

got caught up in the "war on Christmas" and the "anti-war on Christmas" debate last year. Not this year, baby! Bring on the Cool Whip!

the 2 camps in the "christmas wars" are the prototypical example of extreme views, neither of which represent hardly anyone in real life.

the "there's a war on christmas, which is christ's b-day and we must protect it" folk are delusional, reading WAY too much into everything and refusing to let anyone forget that christmas is a christian holiday and somewhere there are smokey rooms full of liberals and their sinister legions of lawyers secretly plotting to wipe christmas from the face of the earth.

the "take everything religious out of christmas" folk are just a bitter group of 2%'ers who use the media and the courts to make it look like there is some big movement to take everything religious out of the holiday. the only people who buy into that are the christian christmas warriors.

the rest of us...

1) ...honor christmas and regard it as one of the biggest, if not biggest holiday of the year.

2) ...see it as both. on one hand, christ's birth and a reminder of that which is holy. most go their church of choice and worship and reflect on life...on the other hand, is a holiday about family and friends. one where we eat a little too much, spend a little too much buying gifts which , for the most part represent our love and caring for one another. santa represents that. he may be used to keep our kids in line, but to adults, santa represents the fun and joy of christmas. in the end, the spirit of christmas brings people together, reuinites people not only with others, but with thoughts and feelings forgotten. whether someone celebrates it in an overtly religious way, if good feelings nand thoughts are the result, in my mind, it is a good thing.

3) ...don't get bogged down in where all this good will and peaceful feelings come from, just enjoy the feelings and holiday.

and Baker makes a good point where he discusses his disdain with this latest version of religious "holier than thou" thumping. that stuff doesn't drive people to God, it drives them away. it reminds me of the old joke about heaven..."when a jehovah witness (or sub in your favorite group of zealots) comes to my door and asks me "don't i want to go to heaven?" i respond "not if it's gonna be filled with a bunch of jehovah's witnesses!""

get it?

No matter where you stand on the subject, KFC’s son’s article is certainly thought provoking. Although I find the message extreme, I think he’s on to something....identified something which KFC described as a spiritual battle that is being waged for our souls.

There is nothing demonic about Saint Nicholas or his properly ordered spirit of gift giving that has lived on through the centuries.

Saint Nicholas lived in the early 300’s and is known as the patron saint of children. Ever since the 5th century, Catholics celebrate the feast day on December 6th. The date of his death is not certain given as 345 and 352. The only recorded historical information that is known about Saint Nicholas was when he was Archbishop of Myra in Lycia, (present day Turkey). He was imprisoned during the Diocletian persecution and present at the Council of Nicea I. Legends have it that from the day of his Baptism he could perform miracles, heal the sick and calm storms. The principle miracle-legends deal with his liberation of 3 unjustly imprisoned officers, of his deliverance of 3 innocent youths condemned to death and his secret provision of dowries of 3 poor girls. St. Nicholas was known primarily for his anonymous aid to people in need, particularly to children. His “gift giving” tradition was brought to Germany by the Byzantine princess Theophano, wife of Otto II in 973. The dowry legend was combined with local folklore making St. Nicholas the bringer of secret presents for children on his feast day. As centuries went by, his generosity became legendary and the spirit of his gift giving encouraged others to give to the poor and those in need at this time of year.

Santa Claus per se is not Catholic but a product of Protestantism that has now fallen into secularism. The gift giving tradition was changed in the 16th century when some Reformers deemed St. Nicholas too identifiable with the CC and replaced him with other figures. Different regions established their own gift-giver. In Italy, gifts were brought by the old woman, Befana, from the Feast of Epiphany on Jan. 6. In Spain, it was the Three Kings and in England, Father Christmas. In most parts of Europe though, it was the Christ Child who brought the gifts. German Protestants encouraged veneration of the Christ Child as a gift giver on His own birthday-December 25th. In German, Christ Child is “Christkindl” which evolved into “Kriss Kringle”. Saint Nicholas was adapted to “Sinterklaus” in Dutch and in English speaking countries, Saint Nicholas’ name was corrupted into Santa Claus. The custom of exchanging gifts via “Santa Claus” became associated with Christmas eve.

In Catholicism, the rhythm of the sacred seasons remain a constant. Christmas is the liturgical celebration of the Mystery of the Incarnation, “the perfect irony of all human history. This is because in order to communicate Himself to us, to give His essence to us in a perfect manner, God chose to become that which we cannot look to for redemption: a man. God became one of us in all things except sin.” (Peter Mirus’ Serenity Among the Thorns). Christ became man for the primary purpose of dying to redeem us. After the Feast of Christ the King, we celebrate the 4 weeks of Advent. During this time we wait with hope and peaceful hearts, in awe and wonder. We watch and prepare ourselves by repenting of our sins for the coming of the Christ Child. It’s about getting back to the basics of Faith. This is the message of Christmas. Christ is the reason for the season-- the very heart of Christmas and our lives each day. Advent is the time to reflect more deeply on putting Christ first and our human relationships in proper perspective after that. This is the time we look forward to maintaining closer ties with family and friends. We witness to our own children about our own childhood in joyful anticipation as Christmas approaches. Christmas seems to reveal many of the qualities that are best about our humanity.

I completely understand FKC’s explanation of it as a spiritual battle that is being waged for our very souls. Christ is being taken out of Christmas and all things Christian are slowly being taken away--from the public square, the workplace, education, and in so many of our lives. This gift of Almighty God to all of us is being rejected. One sign of this is the Santa Claus phenomenon which for the most part is huge $$$$’s, materialism and rank commercialism. It’s the time of year that business transactions of buying and spending are measured. Catholics should honor and venerate the true Saint Nicholas not the unsaintly representations of him as paraded around department stores to drum up sales and revenues starting with the first and busiest day following Thanksgiving, “Black Friday”. Secret “Santas” line up for hours and trample one another in a rush to purchase the latest toy novelty with nary a “Merry Christmas” spoken.

God gave us freedom to choose what we love. Satan is the master of deceit. If he can induce us to deny the Lord and displace God’s love as the source and object of our deepest desires, the very motivation for our life each day, he most certainly will. He will try to draw us little by little, with empty promises, on things that cannot last. Only Jesus can satisfy our deepest longing and desire. If we open our hearts to the Christ Child and make Him our treasure, every thing Satan sends our way can be overcome.

So--may I suggest for those of you who are Catholic, go and receive the graces of Holy Confession and Christmas Mass. It will be like taking the weight of the world off your back. To all non-Catholics, especially those in the midst of turmoil, restore your perspective by seeing the new movie, The Nativity Story. Prepare yourselves first by reading St. Luke Chapter one (all 80 verses) and two (52 verses.) As you read it, listen to the Holy Spirit who authored the words. It’s God telling you about Himself. How powerful is that and the possibilities that follow are endless!

KFC, may the Lord God make you strong in battle.

To all of you in JU land, With my prayers for every blessing and Christ’s peace upon you.

  OMG I completely forgot about that.

Why Thank you Lulabelle. Golly and you're a Catholic too.....don't you know I'm not very nice to Catholics............or so I've been told.

I agree with you (of course) about St. Nick vs Santa Claus. SC is not even close to the original St. Nick and the stories surrounding the orignial St. Nick I think have become lost thru the years although I thought you did a nice job here with the history. Most I have heard of with a few diff variations over the years. Regardless, the SC we recognize today is no St. Nick of yesteryear.

I mean think about it. We have Santa as omnipotent, and omniscient, just like God. He's got special powers to give or not give good gifts or coal if you've not been good. Sound familiar? Where does coal come from? He gives presents (if you're good) albeit they are all physical ones. But we know that God is the giver of the real valuable gifts. The genuine gifts come from above. Peace, love, faith, and the gift that outshines any on earth, eternal life. What good are the gifts of this world without peace in your heart, without the love of another? What good can any gift under the tree compare with eternal life? Satan is an imitator and wishes only to usurp God. He wants God's job. He wants to be God. He distracts us with the physical trying to win our loyalties.

God emptied heaven of it's greatest treasure, his only son, only for us to shove it back and say.......not good enough. I don't want it. This is a gift that keeps on giving never to rust or decay and is new every morning. How great is that? Why would we refuse such a gift if not for Satan's deception in the first place? Yes it is a battle but not a physical one, it's one that is being waged for man's soul.

I will do as you requested (do it anyway...) and read Luke Chap 1 and 2.

May God strengthen and bless you as well.......

KFC

Santa isn't real. Neither is Satan. They are ideas, period

are you absolutely sure on this LW? If so, how can you be?

PIE is the spirit of Christmas personified! PIE! PIE! PIE!

hahaha Gid, you'd better push away from the table....you've been eating pie for days now. You know what they say....you are what you eat.....

I got caught up in the "war on Christmas" and the "anti-war on Christmas" debate last year. Not this year, baby! Bring on the Cool Whip

awwwwwww and i missed it? Well I guess I picked up your slack this year. I say for next year.....tag you're it!!!

Cool Whip? As long as it isn't LITTLE WHIP! Besides you wouldn't want her around. She's very busy barfing on the other side of the computer screen.

Hey and since we're all here, not changing the subject or anything, make sure you check out my newest heartwarming (for a change) story.

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all who tuned in here regardless if you agree or disagree with this thread. I wish you all , regardless of situation, peace and joy not only for this holiday season but also for the coming year. My prayers have been with you all.

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all who tuned in here regardless if you agree or disagree with this thread. I wish you all , regardless of situation, peace and joy not only for this holiday season but also for the coming year. My prayers have been with you all.

well said...merry christmas to you as well!

The essentials are what binds us together and makes us Chrisitans.

This would simply be the existance of Christ.

While I believe there are demons all around us, I also believe there are angels as well, so we don't need to live our lives in fear.

I believe angels and demons/devils are one in the same.

I understand you did not write this article yourself KFC, but rather posted it on your sons behalf. I can only wish your son would have responded to these comments rather than you. It would have given him a chance to defend his own statements, and let us know where he was coming from with all this. Do the 2 of you really entirely believe santa is Satan?

You have people who see Santa Claus and think giving and kindness, and you have people who look at Santa and see the Devil. You, reader, ponder the relative value to mankind of each.

SC is not even close to the original St. Nick and the stories surrounding the orignial St. Nick

That is not exactly true.  I think you need to read into it a bit more and follow the tradition.

But we know that God is the giver of the real valuable gifts.

"We know"???  No, you "believe".  There is a huge difference.  you can't prove the existence of God anymore than you can disprove a magical elf that lives in your closet.  Believing in either won't prove that either exist.

This is my response from a day or so ago that I posted on a seperate article.  I doubt that you read it, so I will post it here, too:

 

I haven't read all the comments, so please forgive any statements that I make that have already been written.  However, reading this made me feel like I was reading something written by Landover Baptist Church: http://www.landoverbaptist.org 

I have spent my entire life free from the confines of a certain religion.  That is not to say that I am not spiritual, that is only to say that I don't affiliate myself with a certain religion.  That being said, I spend my life trying to enlighten myself on the whole purpose of existence, which ends up teaching me a lot about traditions throughout the world.

-Santa is not Satan.  The thought of that is true humor.  Saint Nicholas was a real man.  He was also a Bishop of Myra (which is part of modern day Turkey).  The "red suite" that he wore was his bishops robes.  To this day, it is not uncommon to see bishop robes of the same red and white combination (it's an Urban Legend that the colors came from Coca-Cola, though they do work well in their marketing).

-St. Nicholas used his whole inheritance to help needy, such as two sisters who had no dowries and were about to be sold to face a life of prostitution. 

-Over time, St. Nicholas was merged with the "Father Christmas" figure that predates him.  "Father Christmas" is more common throughout the world, and "Santa" is mainly the American version. Here are some examples of Father Christmas (in alphabetical order): Afghanistan ("Baba Chaghaloo"), Albania ("Babadimri"), Armenia ("Gaghant Baba"), Brazil ("Papai Noel"), Bulgaria ("Dyado Koleda"), Chile (Viejo Pascuero), Denmark ("Julemanden"), Egypt ("Papa Noël"), Finland ("Joulupukki"), France and French Canada ("le Père Noël"), Germany ("Weihnachtsmann" or "Nikolaus"),Greece "Άγιος Βασίλης-Άyos Vasílis" Hungary ("Mikulás"), Iran ("Baba Noel"), Ireland ("Daidí na Nollag"), Italy ("Babbo Natale"), Latvia ("Ziemassvētku vecītis"), Lithuania ("Kalėdų Senelis"), Malta ("San Niklaw"), Mexico ("El Niñito Dios" ("Child God", meaning Jesus)), Norway ("Julenissen"), Poland ("Święty Mikołaj"), Portugal ("Pai Natal"), Romania ("Moş Crăciun"), Russia ("Ded Moroz"), Scottish Highlands ("Daidaín na Nollaig"), Serbia and Bosnia and Herzegovina ("Deda Mraz"), South Africa ("Vader Kersfees"), Spain and some of Spanish-speaking Latin America ("Papá Noel" or "San Nicolás" or "Santa Claus" ), Sweden ("Jultomten"), Turkey ("Noel Baba"), and the United Kingdom ("Father Christmas").

- "Santa Claus" is a mispronunciation of "Sinterklass" which is what the Dutch called St. Nicholas.  They celebrate Sinterklass the night of December 5th, which is the day before St. Nicholas died.  December 6th is then "Feast Day" in honor of him.

Ok, now on to the "religion" about Christmas in general:

- December 25th is not Christ's birth, nor does it have any significance to Christianity.  The celebrations during that time predate Christianity.

- Scientists and astronomers have spent centuries trying to piece together the history around the tales in the bible.  We know that the 3 magis were following a great light.  They have extrapolated that, along with biblical accounts, and have theorized that we are a few years off on Christ's birth.  They have pinpointed a series of celestial events that would have created a great light shining to Jerusalem.  The date of that event was April 17th, 6 BC

- December 25th was when the Romans held their festival "Natalis Solis Invicti", which is the approximate date of the Solstice.  (In modern times, it now falls on the 21st or 22nd).  This festival was the "birthday of the unconquered sun".  This was a very celebrated event, and one which the Christians wanted abolished.

- December 17th to 24th was Saturnalia, another Roman holiday.  It was a time of giving, relaxing, and honoring Saturn.

- Late December to early January, "Yule" festival was celebrated by Pagans in Scandinavia.  The "Yule" log was lit to honor Thor (the god of Thunder).  And, the celebration lasted as log as it stayed lit, which was usually 12 days.  (hmmmm...12 days of "Christmas"?)

*All the above celebrations predate "Christmas" by 100 or so years.*

- The first use of December 25th as Jesus' birthday was in a reference book for Christians written in 221 AD called "Chronographiai".  Prior to that, it was March 25th.  However, that is also the date that it is thought that Jesus was crucified, which is consistent with Jews believing that prophets live an integral number of years.  Of course, they didn't want to give credibility to the Jews, so the date of March 25th was deemed invalid.

But, let's talk about "Satan".  Every Christian I know talks about Satan's powers and how his evil doing is always trying to lead us away from the truth.

Maybe that is true.  Maybe there are things that people believe are "good" but are actually Satan's handiwork.

For instance, I think that religion in general is made by "Satan" or whatever "evil" exists.  There has been no plague or natural occurrence that has caused as much pain, suffering and death as religion has.  There is nothing else that has alienated, segregated or turned humans against other humans like religion has.  How many people have died at the hands of religion?  How many wars have been fought over it?  How can we even know that the bibles that different religions use weren't created by Satan in order to pit us against each-other?

The answer is that we don't KNOW any of it.  All you can do is believe in what you believe.  Believing in Santa Claus is no different.  If it helps a sick, poor, or neglected child have hope, then it is a belief to keep.  If his symbol reminds people to quit being jerks to each-other, then it's something we should embrace.  But, if you spend your life looking for evil, all you will find is evil.  If you spend your life looking for the good in everything, then good things will pave your path.

Last night, I sat at the table with my daughter.  We sang Christmas songs as we played a game of Dreidels (which are plastic...so the "dreidel" song really doesn't work with them....but I digress).  From where I was, I could see my statue of Buddha decked out in his Santa hat holding a shiny blue bulb.  My cat was snuggled under the tree and was batting at the snowflake ornaments and lights that adorn it.  All was peaceful and right- just like it should be. 

We know"??? No, you "believe". There is a huge difference. you can't prove the existence of God anymore than you can disprove a magical elf that lives in your closet. Believing in either won't prove that either exist.This is my response from a day or so ago that I posted on a seperate article. I doubt that you read it, so I will post it here, too:

Yes, we know and you're right there is a huge difference. . Jesus Christ was a real walking talking historical figure and his birth has done more to change the world than any other. To the Christians HE is God incarnate. That's what Christmas is all about....not Santa but the INCARNATION. Incarnation means "God took on human flesh. " Besides Kharma...if you go back and read this you'll notice it was directly written to Lula...not you. She's a fellow Christian. Of course I wouldn't include you in that comment. because I fully understand that you don't know.

And I did read what you posted since you had a link to it earlie from here. There was no need to post it here and to boot three times I see.

You have your belief in Buddha. I have mine in Christ. We'll have to agree to disagree on many points when it comes to spiritual things. I'm cool with that. Don't worry about me. I'll not try to force my belief on you. That's why I didn't comment on your blog.

The essentials are what binds us together and makes us Chrisitans. This would simply be the existance of Christ.

Well not exactly Xythe. There are many essentials to the Christian Faith that we have to agree on to be Christians. The most important is that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, not some created being. Jesus was born of a virgin, a miraculous birth. He died, was buried and resurrected in three days, etc. Just to beieve in Christ means nothing really. There are many false Christs for one thing and something which Jesus himself warned about. Also we know that the demons believed and trembled. They believed in Christ but yet Hell was created for the devil and his angels we're told. Believing in HIM and calling Him Lord and Savior are two diff things.

I believe angels and demons/devils are one in the same.

You think demons and angels are the same? Well I guess they are except there are good angels and bad angels so to differeniate we call the bad ones demons. We do know that the demons were once angels that left God and followed the most beautiful angel of all....Lucifer. When they did so, they became angels of Satan or in other words demons.

Do the 2 of you really entirely believe santa is Satan?

Did you not read all my comments above explaining what I believe? Did you not see that I said I hadn't met a Santa I didn't like? Or that I mentioned that while God takes something bad and makes it good Satan takes something good and twists it (his speciality) and makes it bad. He's a deceiver, a temptor and a usurper. His goal has always been to take our eyes of Christ and onto himself. Look at the garden with Eve. Look at the temptation of Christ. As a Christian, think about it. If you were Satan, how would you take the birth of Christ and twist it?

I like the happy medium I guess. This one I mentioned above.......

Teaching about Santa as a myth: Parents can teach the historical legends associated with St. Nicolas. They are great stories which discuss the importance of generosity and sharing even if they are based on events that never happened. At the same time, parents can teach Santa Clause as a modern secular/cultural myth. Children can still enjoy the story without actually believing that Santa exists. Families can still pretend that gifts arrived from Santa. Since the child has always considered Santa to be an imaginary person, he/she will not be disillusioned at their parents when their friends tell them that Santa does not exist.

Did you not read all my comments above explaining what I believe?

Honestly, not every single comment.

If you were Satan, how would you take the birth of Christ and twist it?

I'm not all that sure. I have my idea of the birth of Jesus fixed in my mind, and it's highly unlikely to change no matter who or what anybody/thing has to say.

I'm sorry you were put on the defensive here KFC. I thought this was a pretty good topic that may have lead to resonable conversation had some not become so emotionally involved. Personally there is not very much anybody can say or do to offend me and my relationship with God/Jesus.