There we go.  That's what I've been waiting for.  You haven't disappointed me Lula.   Of course this isn't about Israel.  Because this is all about the RCC.  *should have known better as she hits herself in the head*  Thank you so much for showing me the light Lula. 

Actually...This is that anti-semite belief system called replacement theology.   You're making a huge mistake. 

no, no, no....the Bible is clear "All Israel will be saved."  It has NOTHING to do with Baptism.  In the end ALL nations will go up to Jerusalem and worship the Lord.  That will be his seat.  He will be ruling from Jerusalem with the scepter that goes all the way back to Judah in Genesis 49 and later to David.  The covenant with David is that he would have an everlasting Kingdom thru his descendant.   Look at the 12 sons of Jacob and the 12 Apostles...all Jews....btw... and they will most likely be the ruling elders (24 elders) in the Kingdom as written. 

yep.

1. exactly.  Chosen is chosen.  Everlasting is Everlasting.  A Promise is a Promise. 

2.  Not me. 

nope.  Not even close.  There is never a new Israel or replaced Israel.   This is your religion telling you this.  Not the bible. 

When I came to Christ I was given a new heart.  It didn't change who I was exactly meaning I'm still me; but it sure changed who I belonged to.   The Jews will still be the Jews.  No new Israel.  No replaced Israel.   If Leauki comes to Christ and recognizes He is the Messiah, Leauki doesn't lose his Jewishness.  He's still a Jew.  We are Gentile converts and Leauki would be a completed Jew or a Messianic Jew but he's still a Jew. 

You're not getting it Lula.  God is NOT done with the Jews nor is he done with Israel..as much as you'd like to believe.  Wait till the Temple gets built.  I believe it will be very soon.  Then let's talk again. 

 

 

Paul calls himself a Pharisee.  Paul was a Jewish theologian who anchored himself in the Tanack.  He is a Hebrew of the Hebrews.  Paul considered himself a Pharisee (I'm not talking about how people now a days toss around Pharisee.  Back during the 1st century there were several sects of Pharisees.  To be a Pharisee you had to have all of the Torah and most of the Tanack memorized) through out his whole life.  He proclaimed himself to be a Pharisee in the line of Pharisees.  He was dedicated to his faith and lived an observant life.  Paul wrote 'The blessing that gentiles are receiving now what GREATER BLESSING will it be when Jews come into the knowledge of Jesus Christ.'  Paul also wanted to if he could exchange the knowledge of Jesus Christ in order that his brothers (meaning Jews) could come into the knowledge.

Also I discussed the heresy of replacement theology here:

Lula psts:

LEAUKI POSTS:

Leauki,

Thanks for providing this quotation of Genesis 15:18-20. Almighty God's promises of giving physical land to Abraham's descendants has already been completely fulfilled. They received the land and lost it.

Here it is Biblically...

From the Douay Rheims, Joshua 21: 41-43 "And the LORD GOD gave to Isreal all the land that he had sworn to give to their fathers; and they possessed it and dwelt in it. And He gave them peace from all nations round about; and none of their enemies durst stand against them, but were brought under their dominion. 43 Not so much as one word, which He had promised to perform unto them, was made void, but all came to pass."

3Kings 8:56, "Blessed by the LORD , who hath given rest to His people Israel, according to all that He had promised: there hath not failed so much as one word of all the good things that He promised through His servant Moses."

2Esdras, alias Nehemias 9:7-8, "Thou, O LORD GOD, art He who choseth Abram, and broughtest him forth out of the fire of the Chaldeans, and gavest him the name of Abraham. 8 And thou didst find his heart faithful before thee: and thou madest a covenant with him, to give him the land of Canaanite, of the Hethite, and of the Amorrhite, and of the Pherezite, and of the Jesubite, and of the Gerzetite, to give it to his seed: and thou hast fulfilled thy words because thou art just."

After reading these passages any one can plainly see that Genesis 15:18-21 was fulfilled.

Deut. 9:5-6 also reveals that it was fulfilled becasue of the oath God made to Abraham.

"For it is not for thy justices, and the uprightness of thy heart that thou shalt go in to possess their lands: but because they have done wickedly, they are destroyed at thy coming in: and that the LORD might accomplish his word, which he promised by oath to thy fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 6 Know therefore that the LORD thy GOd giveth thee not this excellent land in possession for thy justices, for thou art a very stiff necked people."

As a result of their continued disobedience and "wickedness, God took the land away little by little, until it was completely decimated in 70AD by the Romans soon after the New and Everlasting Covenant was inaugurated at Christ's death on the Cross.

From that time on, we learn from Hebrews that it is Christ who became the source of salvation for all who obey Him. Of the New and Everlasting COvenant Jesus proclaimed, "What should I say? Father save Me from this hour? But it was for this purpose that I came to this hour."

Yes, "the hour" had come after the long eras of the covenants of Old. Jesus Himself said it through the prophet Jeremias, "The days are coming when I will make a new covenant" ....one that would be written on not on stone tablets, "I will place my law within them and write it upon their hearts."

This New Covenant would be eternal and would be established in the Person and at "the hour" of Jesus Christ. It was in fact, sealed in His Blood. From the first announcement by God of the coming Redeemer to the fallen Adam and Eve, to the covenant God made with Noe and his family, to the promises God swore to Abraham and his seed, ....the long history of salvation culminated in the hour of the Christ.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

So does your knowledge of scripture come from the holy spirit or from a school?

Native Americans would tell you that all the land is holy.

kfc posts:

Ah, it appears you don't know the Holy Bible as well as you claim. The Holy Bible is clear that the conversion of Jews to Christ and Christianity is not something that the New Covenant has put off in the future when all the Jews gather in the present political state of Isreal just prior to the Second Coming of Christ.

Think Remnant....KFC.

St.Luke 1:67-79 is clear that Christ came precisely to save the Jews and for the express purpose of fulfilling the promises of Abraham and David. The first Christians were Jews, around 10,000 of them were saved according to the Book of Acts 2:41; 4:4. After the disciples received the Holy Spirit at the first Pentecost, they went out and St.Peter spoke to the multitudes that had gathered from all over the known world at that time. He preached the Good news of Christ, and they were converted and baptized.  

For those Jews who accept Christ's invitation to follow Him, He has saved them in this same way for the last 2,000 some years and will continue to until the end of the world.

You must have missed this in Romans 11. St.Paul teaches that even in the Jews' glory days, only a remnant under the Old Covenant followed God and didn't bow the knee to Baal. Read 11: 2-4.  Consequently, in v. 5,  he says, "at this time also there is a remnant chosen according to grace". And so we understand that a similiar of same portions of Jews are now being saved.

The Chruch Fathers who wrote about the anticipated conversion of Jews believed the salvation of the remnant is going to occur during the Church age which is now...the millenium...and yes, some at the very end.

 As to "all Isreal", in Rom. 11:26-27,  St. Augustine, Origen and others taught that "all Isreal" refers to both Jews and Gentiles saved throughout the New Testament period.

 

 

 

We lost it twice.

And got it back twice.

Be more precise!

So you keep talking about how these things are in the "New Testament" and then refer to a non-Biblical authority for the new definition of "all Israel"? Isn't that exactly what KFC accused you of?

 

"You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."

Yes it is futile, but mankind being what mankind is he will hold out until the last bastion falls. 

However why don't you tell me the reasoning behind this sarcastic remark of yours Infidel?   I am quite curious as to why so many people act this way.  Perhaps you can enlighten me as to the reason.  As a jew, and I am assuming that you are one from your posts, I would think that you would desire to be one with God...........am I wrong? 

"So does your knowledge of scripture come from the holy spirit or from a school?"

No one gets knowledge from a book, nor from another person for that matter.  It's rather like when the teacher tells the student 2+2= 4.  Until the student adds the two together and finds out for themselves that indeed 2+2=4, it is only a theory, only something that someone has told them.  It is only when the task is actually accomplished it becomes knowledge.

So my answer to you is that my knowledge comes not from achool, not even from scripture, but from experience earned through my own efforts to find out.  It is the holy spirit that explains that those experiences, and it is scripture that backs up what the holy spirit tells me.  But please don't believe me,nor take my word for it, find out for yourself whether or not I tell the truth of the matter.  Until one does prove or disprove it's validity for themselves, like the student who hasn"t done the math, it will be just a theory. 

KFC stated in her opening statement of this forum.  "You can know" that you are going to heaven after you die.  So tell me KFC, how do you know that you can know?  Is it an assumption that you have either died, or you've been there, if so, which is it?  Or is it just that you believe it, another theory more or less?   Which brings me back to the other forum you've started, "Have you ears to hear".

 

Yes, I do have ears to hear.  I thought I made it quite clear why you can know.  You may want to re read this article that got this whole blog started in the first place.  Go back to the beginning and read it again. 

that's what she has to do to keep her belief going in this direction because it's NOT coming from the plain reading of the scriptures.  She has to go outside (tradition) to get her answers when in fact, it's all right in scripture.  That's our big disagreement and the crux of the whole matter.  Augustine was one that probably never saw this happening but she should know she has the benefit of living in this day when we were able to see Israel come into their own nation. That's Huge.

Augustine probably never dreamt this day would ever be a reality so he had to come up with his opinion on what these scriptures meant.  I say that because many scholars thruout history said similar things trying to explain what they thought this could mean.  Some said "it seems as tho Israel has to come into their own land" while others may have tried to spiritualized it away like Augustine did. 

Augustine was not a final authority.   We've been given more light because of time passed.  With every generation God gives us more understanding.   If Augustine lived today, no doubt his mind would have changed as he read the scriptures in light of the events passing. 

Paul made it clear there is a distinction between the Jew, the Gentile and the church.  You can see this in 1 Cor 10 but I don't have time to quote right now because I'm on the way out for my Tuesday Bible Study. 

Maybe later. 

"Yes, I do have ears to hear.  I thought I made it quite clear why you can know.  You may want to re read this article that got this whole blog started in the first place.  Go back to the beginning and read it again. "

I don't need to read it again, nor do I have a question about why I can know.  I know how I can know.  What I wanted from you was the answer to how do you (specifically) know?

It's a simple question, requires no great thought.  If your original post is any indication, I'd say you know because you read it in the bible, and perhaps because someone told you so and you believe it.  However, I could be wrong, which is why I asked in order to give you the opportunity to tell me so if I am.

Leauki,  I have a question for you pertaining to the jewish faith, and you are the most obvious person here to ask. 

After God, through Moses, led the people of Israel out of bondage in Egypt, why did God lead them for 40 years through the wilderness before bringing them into Caanan?  It is quite obvious to anyone that can read a map, that Caanan is not 40 years away from Egypt, not even for people who are walking, as it appears, were the hebrews.  It appears to have been a deliberate act, not one where one is simply lost, since God isn't lost anywhere.  I am hoping that you can tell me the reason from the jewish perspective of the event, since obvously the jewish people were the ones that this all happend to.  I know that this is not exactly the place for this, but I know of no other place in which to ask.  Do you mind answering? 

Any time.




There are several explanations, each one of them works.

The Torah itself says that G-d was disappointed with the current generation of Israel and hence decided to make sure that everyone would die before the nation would reach the promised land. But their children would enjoy the land of promise and nobody was meant to die early. That's why it had to take 40 years.


Another solution is simpler:



It is obvious to anyone who can read a map. But who can read a map these days?

How do you move more than a million people through a desert?

The answer is, you can't. Unless you have divine support or modern equipment, marching through a desert is suicide for a large group. What instead happened was gradual settlement through the Sinai, moving south from the Nile delta (the Israelites lived in the far north of Egypt and never crossed the Red Sea and neither does the text say that they did) to Mount Sinai and then towards today's Eilat.

Even with divine support marching through the desert quickly is a futile act, especially since the Israelites were supposed to pick up their laws on the road.




In cases like these I really prefer the practical perspective: Why would one or two million people (or even tens of thousands) need 40 years to walk through a desert? Once you assume that there is a reason, the reason becomes obvious. That's simply how long it takes.

Thanks for your perspective and your answers.  They are all deserving of consideration, and I will consider them all.

You stated that the only way to move a million people through the desert, was one of two ways, one of which was 'divine support".  Isn't that what the hebrews had? 

It is interesting that you brought up gradual settlement.  The OT doesn't mention this,  And yet it seems like something that would, of course, naturally happen.  If it did, I'm curious as to why.  The OT says that God went before them in a pillar of smoke during the day, and a pillar of light during the night.  Why would they abandon God to settle elsewhere?  God provided for all their needs according to the OT.  Do you have an opinon on this?