If we assume that everything in the Torah is true, we have not shown that nothing else is or that we understand everything we are told.

Even if the Torah doesn't mention gradual settlement, it could still have happened. And G-d providing for all one's needs does not necessarily manifest in the ways we envision today, with supernatural special effects. It could simply mean, and most likely did, that the settlements always had what they needed.

The events told in the Torah happened on some days, but not necessarily on all days.

To be more specific this is because of the rebellion of Kadesh-Barnea:

The Lord told Israel to spy out the land (Numbers 13).  When the 12 men came back to give their report only Caleb and Joshua came back with a good report (v30) they said "let's go take it."  But the other 10 spies were cowards and not obedient.  All they saw were giants in the land.  Scardy britches. 

So all the people were influenced by the majority of the 10 spies disregarding the two (Chap14) and they went after Moses complaining bitterly calling for a new leader and wanting to go back to Egypt (represents worldliness).  So Moses and Aaron fell before God interceding on behalf of Israel knowing how rebellious this was.  God basically said stand back and I'll wipe them all out.  But because of the intercession of Moses and Aaron God instead said these Jews over the age of 20 would not enter the promised land of Canaan. 

This was the last straw.  God had it with the Israelites.  He said this in Numbers 14:

"Because all those men which have seen my glory and my miracles which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times and have not hearkened to my voice; Surely they shall not see the land which I sware to their fathers neither shall any of them that provoked me see it.  But my servant Caleb becasue he had another spirit with him and had followed me fully, him will I bring into the land where he went and his seed shall posses it.  ......you shall not come into the land concerning which I sware to make you dwell except Caleb and Joshua.  But your little ones which you said should be a prey them will I bring in and they shall know the land which you have despised.  But as for you, your carcases they shall fall in this wilderness.  And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years..........after the number of the days in which you searched the land, even forty days each day for a year shall you bear your iniquities even forty years.....

The fulfillment of this time can be found in Joshua 14 where Joshua recounted this time and says:

"Forty years old was I when Moses the servant of the Lord sent me from Kadesh-barnea to spy out the land and I brought him word again as it was in my heart...I wholly followed the Lord my God...and Moses swore on that day saying Surely the land whereon your feet have trodden shall be your inheritance and your children's forever, because you have wholly followed the Lord."

I just answered this question on the other site for you because you asked there as well.  Maybe that will help? 

The short answer is the Holy Spirit and I explained it further there.  But also as you say here, it's from the reading of scripture.  I tend not to believe others unless I thoroughly research...learned the hard way over the years.  I rely on the Holy Spirit's guidance to lead me to the scriptures..that's not to say that I don't take Godly counsel over the years from very good preaching and teaching as well. 

whisper2 posts:

KFC,

Did you delete my response to Whisper2 regarding the highlighted part of his comment?

Thank you KFC for your answer.  It makes sense to me, but can you tell me what you mean by "research"?

Leauki, do you have an opinon of what KFC wrote about the hebrews in the desert?  Do you agree or disagree?

By the way thank you for your further explanations.

This was the last straw.  God had it with the Israelites.  He said this in Numbers 14:

"Because all those men which have seen my glory and my miracles which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times and have not hearkened to my voice; Surely they shall not see the land which I sware to their fathers neither shall any of them that provoked me see it.  But my servant Caleb becasue he had another spirit with him and had followed me fully, him will I bring into the land where he went and his seed shall posses it.  ......you shall not come into the land concerning which I sware to make you dwell except Caleb and Joshua.  But your little ones which you said should be a prey them will I bring in and they shall know the land which you have despised.  But as for you, your carcases they shall fall in this wilderness.  And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years..........after the number of the days in which you searched the land, even forty days each day for a year shall you bear your iniquities even forty years.....

The fulfillment of this time can be found in Joshua 14 where Joshua recounted this time and says:

"Forty years old was I when Moses the servant of the Lord sent me from Kadesh-barnea to spy out the land and I brought him word again as it was in my heart...I wholly followed the Lord my God...and Moses swore on that day saying Surely the land whereon your feet have trodden shall be your inheritance and your children's forever, because you have wholly followed the Lord."

This is what you agree with Leauki?  If you do, why?

I am not sure what you are getting at...

I agree that the land was given to the Israelites for forever, if that is what you are wondering.

Sorry I quoted the wrong part, here it is:

I don't understand how her explanation is different from mine:

"The Torah itself says that G-d was disappointed with the current generation of Israel and hence decided to make sure that everyone would die before the nation would reach the promised land. But their children would enjoy the land of promise and nobody was meant to die early. That's why it had to take 40 years."

Taking that amount of time to cross the desert because of the number of people to make the crossing because it takes that much time, sounds radically different from because God wished to weed out those that were not "worthy".  I do see a similarity between your points of view, but only to a point.  You credit the 40 years to the movement of so many peoples, and she creidits it (according to Torah) because of the will of God.  

I am curious, what is your personal point of view that you deem the truth on this subject of 40 years to cross such a small desert, God, or simply time?  Or perhaps it's a combination of both?

lula posts:

LEAUKI POSTS:

First, It's good to see that no one is denying that Almighty God kept His promise of giving the land of Genesis 15:18-20 to Abraham and his descendants. This confirms the first time the ancient Isrealites acquired the land resulted from the promise of God.

The second time Jews got the land of present day Isreal in 1948 was the result of the godless political forces of the United Nations is a completely different story.

The Jewish takeover involved a bloody slaughter against native Palestinians has been called a "miracle" by some. Was it? My conscience tells me the answer is NO. I think the Jews were in the wrong to do this. And for this I will incur everyone's wrath and be labeled an "anti-Semite" because no one, but no one who is a non-Jew can speak of the wrongs committed by Jews.

Nevertheless, as far as keeping God's commands, what's new among the Jews? The taking over the Palestinian land in the manner the Jews did is just more sinning against God and their fellow man followed by more sin and that is the rationalizations to justify it.

when someone makes a claim about scripture and I'm not sure of it, or if a red flag starts to wave in my face I not only go and read it in full context but I also cross reference it with other scriptures especially if it's a hard teaching.    For  instance when Lula was adament about the baptism washing away sins I knew it was not right.   I didn't have to look anything up because I know the theology quite well.  But when she put down Acts 22:16 to prove her point she might as well have bought the biggest flag she could find because it sure didn't make any sense to what I believe is the correct interpretation of scripture.  Sure enough she left off the most important part of the scripture. 

does this have something to do with the "worthyiness" of the people? 

Whisper...if you have a bible just read Numbers 13-14 and Joshua and you'll see exactly what happened.  It will take you just a few minutes and you'll get a good grasp of what happened. 

Most kids know this story...the story of Caleb and Joshua from way back in SS.  So I take it you didn't go to SS when you were a kid? 

I believe both are the same thing.

I believe that whatever G-d does manifests itself as a force of nature in our world. Saying that god wouldn't let anyone 20 or older into the land of Israel is the same as saying that it simply takes that long to get there. There is no difference between the two.

Yes.

Says who? And what do you mean "second"? You keep forgetting the Babylonian exile.

1:

"Almighty God kept His promise of giving the land of Genesis 15:18-20 to Abraham and his descendants. This confirms the first time the ancient Isrealites acquired the land resulted from the promise of God."

Note that I am one of those descendants.

This kingdom was overrun by Assyrians/Babylonians.

2:

Cyrus, G-d's Annointed King (a "Messiah" in Bible speech), returned the Israelites to the land of Israel and a kingdom of Israel existed within the Persian empire.

This kingdom was overrun Greeks and then ruled by Romans until its dissolution about 2000 years ago at the hands of Rome.

3:

In the late 19th century Jews returned to Israel again, bought land, founded cities like Tel Aviv, and lived as Ottoman subjects until World War 1, when Israel became a British territory and until 1948 when Israel became independent again.

KFC would say that this is part of the plan and ultimately Jesus' doing. If it was, I am fine with it. But there is nothing "godless" about it. It's simply that "descendants" thing. The word didn't go away. The land was given to Abraham and his descendants and the land of Israel itself was given to Moses' people and their descendants.

And your theological argument against that simply consists of declaring it godless, but no part of scripture says so.

That's why you have to ignore the Babylonian exile, because it provides a Biblical example of the Israelites losing and regaining their land and Judaism existing without a Temple.