Does Evil Exist?
Published on September 8, 2007 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Religion
Got this story from a friend and thought it was quite thought provoking. Does evil exist or is it better stated that evil is just the absence of something good?



Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From God"

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees."

"Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word."

"In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought."

"It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir."

"So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.


"

Comments (Page 4)
7 PagesFirst 2 3 4 5 6  Last
on Sep 11, 2007
Lula you said this:

and Scripture tells us that He chooses all

and I asked this:

Lula can you tell me what verse or scripture you're referring to here?


you come back with this?

1Tim. 2:4 "This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knoweldge of truth."

It says he "desires" all men to be saved. He doesn't say he "chooses" all. So that doesn't even fit even remotely. And then you said this:

2StPeter 3:9, "The Lord is not slow about His promise as some count slowness, but is forebearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."


This is written to believers 1:1. We know ALL are NOT going to come to repentance right? So it can't be as you say. Saying God's desire is none perish and choosing all are two diff things. I asked you to show me where he said he chooses all. These verses are not fitting the bill Lula.

You could say you desire to feed all the starving children in So Africa but only choose one or two to feed. It's two diff things.

What we are seeing here are two things if you include v8 (in context here). Peter is saying that the seemingly delay of Christ's return is

1. because God does not view time as we do and
2. because He wants more people to repent.

If he waits another year or two, more are going to come into the kingdom. If he comes today, less will. God is very patient and longsuffering towards us but.
on Sep 12, 2007
Evil is the absence of good? Possibly; but if that is true, there are a lot of evil people within the church and a lot of good people outside of it.

Just a thought.
on Sep 12, 2007
well it depends on what you define as good or evil Gid. Jesus said there was no one good.

I guess it depends on whose perspective you're looking at.

just a thought.

on Sep 12, 2007
I guess it depends on whose perspective you're looking at.


Well, using God's standards, KFC.

I have seen many incredible Christians in my day, but I have also seen many nonChristians who have been just as incredible. Caring for the sick, the needy, visiting inmates in prison...the kinds of actions that Jesus referred to as virtues.

What I see in too many churches, though, is appalling. Backbiting, lying, cheating, the kinds of things that are never lauded in Scripture as virtues. Just because they have a picture of Jesus in the foyer doesn't make them good Christians.

And just because the picture is absent doesn't mean they're not good Christians.
on Sep 12, 2007
What I see in too many churches, though, is appalling. Backbiting, lying, cheating, the kinds of things that are never lauded in Scripture as virtues. Just because they have a picture of Jesus in the foyer doesn't make them good Christians.


hahah I guess we're both late nighters huh Gid?

honestly Gid, you come across so anti-church. Yes, I agree with you to a point. People are people. You are going to get lying, backbiting, cheating, etc. in and/or out of church. Just because someone goes to church doesn't make him a saint. Yes, we should expect better I suppose, but people inside the church need the Lord just like the people outside need the Lord.

You seem to heavily equate those in church as bad and those outside as better. Church is a place where people with sin-sickness go. Church is not for the well but for the sick. We go there to learn to be better and get better. For some of us it may take years. Some never get well. Some get well quickly and help others find the cure. Church is about edifying and encouragine one another. We need to help each other get well by fellowshiping with one another and focusing on Christ who is the great physician.

Thru it all Gid, we are told NOT to focus on others but to focus on Christ.







on Sep 12, 2007
We get to "know" God through His written and oral Revelation. That's why He gave it to us. Can we ever "know" everything about Him? NO, He's incomprehensible, so we can't.


But you talk about God as if you know everything about Him. You use what the Church say and repeat it without even thinking about it. Sorry Lula. it is really disturbing to talk about God the way you do. You talk as if you and the Church know every single detail about Him. Still, you say He is incomprehensible. That is True. But if it is , then what you say is about something we cant know or understand. You see the contradiction and the confusion you get yourself into?

Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture together make up a single sacred deposit of the Word of God which is entrusted to the Church.


NOOOOOOOOO. Absolutely NOT.

God's written word comes from a single defined source: His Messengers and they are known and they are few. God's verbal word comes from Prophets and they are to enforce His written word not an addition or replacement. each written word replaces what precedes it. These written words are the only reference for His guidance and rules. No verbal word can change, replace, stretch, override or introduce new concepts. The church did a lot of all that using that arguement of yours as justification of what they did.

Tradition and inspirations are not sacred. You sound exactly like the people in Saudi Arabia. They treat tradition as you do: Sacred. It is not. Religion is not a tradition or a philosophy.It is a system to guide people during their lives not hypotheses and age-old practices.
on Sep 12, 2007
You are not representing St.Thomas' writings fairly.

Rape is an evil act. In your example and applied it to St. Thomas' definition of evil, then rape would be the defiency of a good.

now, pulling this through, rape is an evil act, evil being something privative, cannot be the term of a postive creative act; therefore rape cannot be a positive creative act.

Rape is neither a positive nor creative act. Evil is neither a positive nor creative act.


I am not representing him fairly? Your comment proves my point. you didnt answer my arguement at all , you just repeat what Thomas said.

it is nonsense, sorry to say that. but there is no other word to describe it.

I asked what is "the good" that was absent during the act of rape.

what is your answer to that? just vague undefined terms?
on Sep 12, 2007
I can't agree with you when you cay God created EVERYTHING. God didn't create Satan and He didn't create evil. God did not create or cause the evil things we humans DO either.


So God did not Create everything?and He didnt Create Satan?

How can you explain Gen3.1: "Now the serpent was more crafty than any other wild animal that the Lord had made"

wasnt the serpent Satan in disguise?

If God didnt creat Satan or evil, who created them?

I honestly cant even understand what you are saying.

You disagree with the main attribute of God i.e Creator while it is the only attribute that He did not bestow any degree of it on any of His creations !!!!!!


on Sep 12, 2007
I take it these messengers that you speak of here are God's prophets. In this case, yes, I agree the message is from God, therefore inspired and that it contains no error whatsoever. (btw, although every writer of Sacred Scripture was not a prophet per se, Christians believe every writer was inspired and that's why we believe the whole of Sacred Scripture is inspired, not just the words that Christ spoke directly.)


I think here you sealed the arguement. I made my point.

What anyone, anyone says, that is not a messenger or a prophet, cant be taken as sacred or divine regardless of what any Church, Mosque or Synagoue say. Period.

God do not allow regular humans to make sacred rules and concepts on His behalf.

You are equating a council of politicians and theologians with messengers and prophets and that is surely a great insult to the latters.

on Sep 12, 2007
How does the way the Holy Spirit guides the Church apply to Jews and Muslims?


what you quoted in #44 explains that. It is not a Holy Spirit that guides these people of the Church. it is God's inspiration that comes to all humans with ideas and theories. The Holy Spirit are sent only to messengers and prophets.

Humans express their inspiration in their own words and understanding which is subject to errors and incompleteness. All that MUST be judged based on the Main Reference i.e. God's own words to His true messengers and prophets delivered by the HS. By your own admission none of those people in the Church were that. What applies to them also applies to Muslim and Jewish counterparts. i.e none of them is sacred or divine or free from error or complete. it is just human thinking not divine revelation.
on Sep 12, 2007
Lula posts:
and Scripture tells us that He chooses all

1Tim. 2:4 "This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knoweldge of truth."


KFC POSTS:


It says he "desires" all men to be saved. He doesn't say he "chooses" all. So that doesn't even fit even remotely.


Since when does a passage in Scripture HAVE to have the same exact word to "fit" with the meaning of an other passage? What is this---your own private rule in Scriptural exegisis?   

Instead of chooses, how about if I had said, God wants all men to be saved? Yeah, how's that? It's true, He does want all men to be saved.

Since it is just as important for us today, let's look at what St.Paul is instructing. The main lesson is how we can help God with His desire that all men be saved. God's Fatherly Goodness embraces all men. "He makes His sun rise upon the good and the bad, and the rain fall upon the just and the unjust." In the same way, the Christian must pray for all men, if he wants to show himself as a child of his Father who is in Heaven.

1Tim 2:1...Christians have come together in common assembly and here St.Paul asks that they should offer prayers as the deepest expression of a fervent community life. He emphasizes a Christian's charity must include prayers for all men, the entire human race, without exception or limitation, including the civil authorities, is "pleasing" to God. He is our "Savior", the redeemer who "wants all men to be saved".

To St.Paul, God's universal salvific will is the ultimate reason for the obligation we have to pray for all. It's cooperating with God's will. It's His wish that all men should be saved, and that they should brought to the "knowledge of truth" of His revelation that they might be rescued from sin, death and judgement.

Just as God's love and saving will know no bounds, the prayer offered by Christians must know no bounds.

One group of persons for whom public prayer should be offered is mentioned in particular. These are "kings", at that time, Nero and those "in authority". Can you imagine that? Here we have these Christians being persecuted by Nero and St.Paul is asking to pray for him? Christian obligation of prayer holds good for all time.

on Sep 12, 2007
you come across so anti-church


Honestly, KFC, I'm becoming so. I am a Christian, but the church as I have seen it appalls me.

Church is a place where people with sin-sickness go. Church is not for the well but for the sick.


Which is why they attack the sick, right?

The church doesn't WANT me there. Why would I be pro church?

on Sep 12, 2007
GIDEON POSTS:
Evil is the absence of good? Possibly; but if that is true, there are a lot of evil people within the church and a lot of good people outside of it.


Well, using God's standards, KFC.


Bottom line: On Judgment day, each person is not going to be judged on the basis of what he himself says is good, but on the basis of what God says is good, good for all men, which is basically His definition and explanation of the Ten Commandments.

As far as evil inside and outside the Church. There is no doubt that inside the Church, there can be found people committed to dishonor and deadly sin. At the same time, there are many, many people who faithfully keep the Commandments.

I'd say that outside the Church, is a world which is in general committed to darkness. There is some light which you have mentioned, but there is a great deal more light within.

KFC POSTS:
Church is about edifying and encouragine one another.


and then says,

Thru it all Gid, we are told NOT to focus on others but to focus on Christ.


Well, which one is it?

I'll admit I don't know much about what happens during a Sunday Protestant service...and I could be off the chart here. It seems to me this is exactly where the difference lies...one church is busy edifying and encouraging one another and an other is one that is focusing worship of the Lord God...

When they go to Church, do Protestants worship God or is it just hearing the Word and fellowship gathering?

Catholic Mass is the hearing of the Word, common prayers of thanksgiving and supplication, worship of God and Holy Communion. No fellowship as in edifying and encouraging one another (other than offering prayer) during the Mass.



on Sep 12, 2007
LUla posts:
We get to "know" God through His written and oral Revelation. That's why He gave it to us. Can we ever "know" everything about Him? NO, He's incomprehensible, so we can't.


THINK ALOUD POSTS:
Sorry Lula. it is really disturbing to talk about God the way you do. You talk as if you and the Church know every single detail about Him. Still, you say He is incomprehensible. That is True. But if it is , then what you say is about something we cant know or understand. You see the contradiction and the confusion you get yourself into?



ThankAloud,

I'm curious....WHY is the way I talk about the Lord God so disturbing to you?


There is no contradiction or confusion in getting to "know" (seeking)God according to what He Himself, from the fullness of His love, has revealed to us through written and oral Revelation.

God Himself has chosen to manifest and communicate both Himself and the eternal decrees of His will concerning the salvation of mankind. My personal response to God's communication of Himself and His will is called faith. By faith, I am called to seek Christ who is God become man. By His teachings, and His Death and Resurrection, Jesus is both Revealer and the Revelation of God. The life of faith is very personal. Faith is a gift of God and only God knows who has it.

You say, "You talk as if you and the Church know every single detail about Him."

The basic doctrines, or dogmas of the Church are the verbal expressions of what God has revealed to us about our relationship with Him. The key characteristic of the Chruch's dogmas is that they agree with Sacred Scripture. The teachings spell out the unchangeable content of Revelation, translating into knowledge that we can understand. Church dogma is a statement of truth of God's self-communication and whose purpose is to bring Christ closer to us.



IMPORTANT NOTE: The Chruch's dogmatic statements are not the same as God's self-revelation. They are the medium through which Catholics place their faith in God. For example, the mystery of the Blessed Trinity which we've discussed at length is a Church dogma.
on Sep 12, 2007
LULA POSTS:
Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture together make up a single sacred deposit of the Word of God which is entrusted to the Church.


God's Word of Revelation comes to us through words spoken and written by human beings. Through words written--Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit. The Books of Scripture were written by humans who were under Divine Inspiration.

Through oral words--sacred Tradition is the handing on of God's words by Jesus to His Apostles, and their successors down through the ages. Sacred Scripture itself tells us to hold fast to tradition, whether it comes to us in written or oral form. 2thess.2:15, 1Cor.11:2.

Think Aloud posts:
God's written word comes from a single defined source: His Messengers and they are known and they are few.


The OLd and New Testaments of Sacred Scripture (SS) is God's only written Word and every one of the Books of Sacred Scripture was written by His chosen writers (His Messengers you call them) under Divine Inspiration of the Holy Spirit. So, Sacred Scripture is inspired by God. 2Tim 3:16.

That written truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see is confided to SS. Sacred Scripture and Tradition are not competing Revelations. They are two ways the Chruch hands on the faith of Christ.

Religion is not a tradition or a philosophy.It is a system to guide people during their lives not hypotheses and age-old practices.


Christianity is Christ's holy religion I'm talking about and Catholicism in praticular. Religion may be defined as the voluntary subjection of oneself to God, of whose powerful help, and protection he needs, and in whom he recognizes is the source of his perfection and happiness.

In this sense, Religion is the virtue which prompts man to render to God the worship and reverence that is His by right. Objectively, religion is the voluntary acknowledgment of man's dependence on God through acts of homage.



7 PagesFirst 2 3 4 5 6  Last