Does Evil Exist?
Published on September 8, 2007 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Religion
Got this story from a friend and thought it was quite thought provoking. Does evil exist or is it better stated that evil is just the absence of something good?



Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From God"

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees."

"Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word."

"In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought."

"It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir."

"So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.


"

Comments (Page 1)
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on Sep 08, 2007
Bravo, KFC. Although this indicates to me there is no Satan. Satan is just a concept that indicates an absence of God, no?
on Sep 08, 2007
This is the classic rebuttal to the infamous 1925 Monkey Trial cross examination of the local preacher. Both versions of the verbal gymnastics are usually used to disprove a negative, both versions do fail in a factual sense, and end up having to cross the age old gap in verifiable "evidence". Neither version would be pushed forward if such "evidence" stood on its own two feet, verbal gymnastics would not be needed by definition. Its the old story, whichever faction one is from, you cant prove a negative, its impossible.

It boils down to Faith, an individual has it or they dont. If they do, thats great, if they dont, equally great - in either case does it matter? - further discourse is pointless as it will not change that individual's version of reality. It should not matter whether or not, no-one, one, or Billions agree, which version one holds true, particularly in a religious sense where individual Faith is a Central fact of Christian Religion anyway.

It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God

Thats a Christian interpretation of evil, at the time it was coined (and pick your date its doesnt matter), the overwhelming majority of Man at the time did not believe in God, so they are hardly going to define evil as "the absense of god".

Evil is simply the absence of God

If so, you can legitimately say, therefore if God exists, and is always present in our lives, why does Evil still exist in the world?

Again, all that of course, is verbal gymnastics, and any rebuttal would in a similar way be based on unverifiable evidence. So we are back to Faith again, and I see no problem with that, if an individual has that Faith, why worry or complain if others dont? If an individual does not, why worry or complain if others do?

My take on the whole good and evil concept is a quote I came across a while back, seen it used many times in various situations - no-one can track down its origin (Not even to Edmund Burke, no original found), but it encapsulates what I currently feel:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
(Modern PC version - delete "men" insert "people"  )

That holds true whether you are religious or not, so its an appropriately neutral way to end my two cents worth.
on Sep 08, 2007
Try this:

Link

on Sep 08, 2007
Yes, So Daiho, but I never asserted this has anything to do with Einstein. So I'm not making this claim or any other.

on Sep 08, 2007
Again, all that of course, is verbal gymnastics, and any rebuttal would in a similar way be based on unverifiable evidence. So we are back to Faith again, and I see no problem with that, if an individual has that Faith, why worry or complain if others dont? If an individual does not, why worry or complain if others do?


It all sounds good and fair. There are two points, however, that i would like to highlight:

One, Faith is not something that exists without a reason behind it. Blind faith is not faith at all. You dont believe that a brain exists just because you believe that. You dont believe that God exists just because someone said that. What is behind anyone's faith in anything depends on the individual.

Two, of course if you have faith why worry if others dont. No one does, until those who dont start saying: There is no evidence of God's existence i.e. no reason behind that faith. Which in reality means that those who believe are just empty-headed morons who have faith in God that is based on nothing. That is when you start worrying if you are a believer. If you dont then what they say sounds like a truth. doesnt it?

You might say why does that matter to any believer and in fact again it doesnt. The problem is people who say that there is no evidence of God's existence say their position is based on logic and science which in reality it is far from it. If they just say "we dont believe in God because we like it that way" no one will bother to say anything to them, it is everyone's choice. But pretending that there is a logical reason for that choice is what believers try to answer.
on Sep 08, 2007
Think Aloud I have a question for you.

In your belief system, where does your FAITH come from?

Is it something you will yourself to have? Is it something you discipline yourself carefully to achieve? Where or what is the exact source of your faith?





on Sep 08, 2007
So we are back to Faith again, and I see no problem with that, if an individual has that Faith, why worry or complain if others dont? If an individual does not, why worry or complain if others do?


Yes, it all seems to come down to faith doesn't it? You're right. We shouldn't worry or complain about this. I agree. I don't worry or complain even when a loved one has no faith. I admit it's taken me a while to understand how things work along this line. Now I just give him/her to God. It's not my problem to make sure they have faith. It's God's problem.

Worrying is likened to rocking away in a rocking chair. The harder you this the more you realize it's not getting you anywhere.
on Sep 09, 2007
Think Aloud I have a question for you.

In your belief system, where does your FAITH come from?

Is it something you will yourself to have? Is it something you discipline yourself carefully to achieve? Where or what is the exact source of your faith?


Ooooh KFC. You asked a hugely deep and also personal question and i will try to be as brief as i can.

Let me say this before I start. My belief in God is based on a complete conviction of His existence which is based on a long and self-debating period in which i explored all options and scenarios as much as my level of education at different stages of my life allowed. The more I advanced in education, engineering no less, the more i became convinced of His existence. For better or worse, Engineering Schools mold your mind to become absolutely practical, realist and humble before the laws of physics. That is not all. There is the element of objectivity. Nonsense, spin, and virtual reality dont work there. They tell you that on Day One. Wishful thinking is a quick ticket to the exit door or to a disaster if you stay there and actually become one.

How did i start? when i think about it every now and then, i really laugh sometimes. But here is what happened:

I was raised in a middle-class religious family. My mother used God as a disciplinary tool. Every time we, the kids, did something that she didnt like she told us God is going to punish us for that. Everything. if we didnt eat dinner, He will punish us, if we didnt wash our hands before and after dinner He will punish us, if we didnt go to sleep early He will punish us, ....etc.

At age 14 or 15 i started saying to myself "God cant be that silly", why does he care whether we go to sleep at 9 or at 10. So i said to my self "I will see for myself what this God say" in the books that were available at home, school, or in second-hand bookstores. And i started reading.

Each book opened my eyes a little and pointed to another and so on .... the rest is history KFC.

The main thing is this: My family pointed to a God, my curiousity questioned the family's perception of Him, my readings cleared the picture and finally my education confirmed every and each word i learned about Him, His message and His Books.

Why would a 14 yrs old kid question his mother's words that way? I dont know KFC. May be it is God's guidance after all. But i think His guidance is available to everyone, it is up to each individual to pursue it with open, honest and unbiased mind.

Hope that answered your question KFC.

btw, later when i grew up and asked my mom about what she did, she laughed and said i knew that God doesnt care about these little things. I knew if i had said do it because i say so, it wont be done, but if i said God will be upset it will be done ... promptly. she was right   
on Sep 09, 2007
This is the classic rebuttal to the infamous 1925 Monkey Trial cross examination of the local preacher.


I never made the Scopes connection, but you're right, zydor. Nicely done.
on Sep 09, 2007
Which in reality means that those who believe are just empty-headed morons who have faith in God that is based on nothing. That is when you start worrying if you are a believer. If you don’t then what they say sounds like a truth. doesn’t it?

You could also take the view that the accuser in your scenario is concerned that what you say sounds like the truth, is worried they got it "wrong", hence the ever increasing vitriol to try and prove they have got it "right". There is in any case a lot of truth in the latter in my experience.

I would not be concerned about that, the whole question cant be proved in an absolute sense in terms of "right" or "wrong", which ever faction one resides in. If it was that easy it would have been resolved long ago in the last 2,000 years amongst the hundreds of Billions that have lived on this planet, someone would have come up with the absolute ultimate indisputable rationale. There are many strong reasons why people should have Faith, just because others have chosen to interpret those reasons in another way, does not make your original choice any less valid, the reasons are still the same, the facts have not changed.

A Cleric friend of mine of many years, going back to my early days in the Army, used to say with a wicked grin on his face to the "Heathen" in his "Flock" in the Mess bar after a formal Sunday Church Parade:

"Look, you cant prove I'm wrong, I cant prove your wrong. So by definition, why waste good drinking time trying to prove your right? What do you want to drink?".

There is a "House Rule" in Officers Mess Bars that you don’t debate Religion in the Bar. It was his neat way of telling them to shut up before the Colonel did, but he was also making a valid point on the whole debate, he is quite a character.
on Sep 09, 2007
btw, later when i grew up and asked my mom about what she did, she laughed and said i knew that God doesnt care about these little things. I knew if i had said do it because i say so, it wont be done, but if i said God will be upset it will be done ... promptly. she was right


ok this is better. When I first read what you wrote about your Mom playing deputy to a mean ol' God I was a bit horrified. But in some regards as a mom I can relate a bit. When my kids were young and would get into trouble I went thru this period where I'd have them sit at the table and write down a section of scripture until I realized I was using God's word as a punishing tool. I wanted them to love the word of God as I did and when I thought about what I was doing, I stopped because I want them to go to God's word for comfort and instruction and instead I was using it to punish them with it. Thankfully it was a short period of time.

But this also reminds me also as a young parent listening to a Pastor talk about parenting his own teens at the time. He said he felt bad for parents who were unbelievers. When we parent we let our children know that God is a big part of who we are and the reasons we do and don't do certain things. So it's not a "do as I say" type of parenting. Evenutually they'll tune you out.

As Christian parents, we taught our kids that God loved them unconditionally and so did we, but certain things were not pleasing in his sight. The reason we didn''t do certain things is because it doesn't bring glory to God and actually grieves him. Because of what God has done for us, we want to please him, and the only way we can really do this is to live lives worthy of Him. So we try our best to stay away from things that wouldn't be pleasing to him.

I found after raising my own teens, this is very effective and helped them to establish their own relationship with the God of the Universe. Someday they will instruct their kids the same way. We escaped the common trials and tribulations many parents go thru with their teens especially, and I do believe it was bringing God into the equation that made the difference. So it sounds like your Mom had this same idea.

May be it is God's guidance after all.


well I think this is more or less the answer I was looking for. From a Christian POV our faith comes from God. Most really don't think about where their faith comes from. The disciples knew the source when they asked Jesus to "increase our faith."

Paul spoke of this when he said this:

"For by grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned." Romans 12:3

The writer to the Hebrews (possibly Paul) said:

Looking to Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith......12:2a

The ESV versions says the "founder and perfector of our faith."

So we owe God more than we realize when we think that EVEN our faith comes from him. All good gifts do really come from above.

Thanks TA for your most personal answer. I enjoyed learning a bit more about you.







on Sep 09, 2007
Zydor,

I like the way you think and speak. I think Atheism is wasted on you. I do believe you would make a wonderful addition to Christianity.....lol

I have heard it said many times that it takes more faith to be an atheist than a Christian. Do you agree or disagree with that?



on Sep 09, 2007
Thanks TA for your most personal answer. I enjoyed learning a bit more about you.



Me too.   
on Sep 09, 2007
I like the way you think and speak. I think Atheism is wasted on you. I do believe you would make a wonderful addition to Christianity.....lol


Me too.   
on Sep 09, 2007
I do believe it was bringing God into the equation that made the difference. So it sounds like your Mom had this same idea.


That is the whole idea. bringing Him into the equation in a way that a little kid will realize that doing things that He disapproves has serious implications.

our faith comes from God. Most really don't think about where their faith comes from.


I think there is a slight but significant difference. Guidance TO faith comes from Him and is available to all humans. But faith comes from each individual's effort to explore and think about the options and alternatives. If faith comes directly from Him, and since He is Just and Merciful, then it should be available to all. Since it is obvious that not all people are faithful, then I cant say it comes directly from Him. Guidance to the faith in Him is available to each and everyone of us. It is us who decide to follow that guide and decide to accept the faith or not. hence comes the consequences of that decision of ours.

I believe that It is true that when the individual seeks Him He will seek the individual even more in so many ways. and vice versa. The more the individual is arrogant and distances himself from His guidance the more He leaves that individual to his own devices.

So we owe God more than we realize when we think that EVEN our faith comes from him. All good gifts do really come from above.


If you mean that Faith itself (as opposed to being faithful) comes from HIM, of course it does. all my comments are related to "being faithful i.e. believing in Him" . Hope you take my comments in that context.
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