There are many who want to use our freedom as a weapon against us. They insist that freedom should mean "you can't do that", or "you shouldn't say that".

There is a quote from George Washington, "When we assumed the Soldier, we did not lay aside the Citizen." The same could be said for "teacher", "student", "congressmember", "mayor", "judge", "jurymember"... etc

The ACLU would have us believe that we give up our rights when we are on public property.

The majority of the information in the following reply came from: http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html



Where? Jesus Christ is not named in any of the "founding" document that I am aware of and the idea that the majority of the country at the time of its founding were practicing Christians doesn't seem supportable. Historian, Robert T. Handy states that "No more than 10 percent-- probably less-- of Americans in 1800 were members of congregations."

Additionally, historians tend to agree that the Founding Fathers rarely practiced Christian orthodoxy. Many believed in the doctrines of Free Masonry which welcomed anyone from any religion or non-religion, as long as they believed in a Supreme Being.

So, let's look at our founding fathers:

Washington: In his thousands of letters, the name of Jesus Christ never appears.

Jefferson: Many Christians would not consider Jefferson a Christian. He did not think Jesus to be divine, nor did he believe in the Trinity or the miracles of Jesus. In a letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787, he wrote, "Question with boldness even the existence of a god."

John Adams-- a unitarian who wrote: "Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses."

James Madison-- The following two quote from him would suggest he wasn't Christianity's biggest fan either:

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."

Benjamin Franklin was also a deist -- and wrote about his rejection of Christian despite being educated in the principles of Calvinism since birth. His friend wrote of him: "It is much to be lamented that a man of Franklin's general good character and great influence should have been an unbeliever in Christianity, and also have done as much as he did to make others unbelievers"

Now, let's look at some of the founding documents:

The Constitution: No mention of God, Christ, or a Supreme Being. Religion is mentioned twice -- in the first amendment (Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion) and in Article VI, Section 3, where it states that no religious test is required for public office.

The Declaration of Indepence: Mentions God, but it describes "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God" not Christianity's God specifically.

And then there was the Treaty of Tripoli, which stated "As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion;" which was signed while Washington was President.

Based on all of this, I wonder where the proof is that the founding fathers told us to put our faith in Jesus. God, yes-- Jesus, no.

Based on all of this, I wonder where the proof is that the founding fathers told us to put our faith in Jesus. God, yes-- Jesus, no.

Reply By: shadesofgreyPosted: Friday, June 29, 2007

Hi meg sweetie good to see yer name and I fully and completely agree with everything you posted above this. GOD. the almighty is who we are to put our faith in. No where is Jesus, Moses, mohammed, Budda, or anybody else mentioned. GOD AND ONLY GOD, who by the way originated the saying "there can be ONLY ONE!"

There can be ONLY ONE separated into three parts!

Er, doesn't make sense without the rest of the Bible around.

Jesus Christ was named by almost all our founders as the one we put our trust in.

Umm, no, he wasn't.  'God' was mentioned, but not Christ.

 

John Jay mentioned Jesus. And he was appointed by those guys you're mentioning to be the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

That's OK. It's the same logic they apply when presented with the FACTS that Planned Parenthood was started by a virulent eugenist.

Reply By: JythierPosted: Friday, June 29, 2007 There can be ONLY ONE separated into three parts!

daddio, laddio and spook? right?

Hey MM. Good to "see" you too. I'm going on vacation next week and will have better access to email/internet, so expect to see more of me.




I'll take your word for it (though a quote might be nice) , but it is still only one person, not "the founding fathers"

The ACLU will step up and protect your first amendment rights too. Here is an interesting link to the ACLU fights for Christians. Some examples of cases

The ACLU are fighting for a church that provides a Wednesday night meal to needy people that was denied a variance by the city.

The ACLU fought to have a Christmas tree included in a holiday display in Maui.

The ACLU filed a lawsuit for a Christian protester who wanted to protest Walmart's policy on gay's.

The ACLU filed a lawsuit for a church in Georgia that was denied a zoning permit.

The ACLU defends a Catholic man forced to convert to pentecostal faith to complete court ordered drug rehab.

The ACLU joined a lawsuit that supported a second graders right to sing "Awesome God" at a school talent show.

The list goes on. Do you still think the ACLU is evil when they are fighting for the rights of Christians?

Link

Of course not. It's a whole different ball of wax then.

KFC thinks the ACLU is evil. I think that some born again christians are evil (note I said 'some' not 'all'. I haven't met 'all' of them but I have met 'some' and it's those people that I'm basing my opinion on.)
I think that says all I need to say about the differences between KFC and I.

Oh, and Pat Robertson. I think he's an evil bastard too.

Shadesofgrey: thank you so much for your factual reply. I notice few have replied to it.. Be well.

Umm, no, he wasn't. 'God' was mentioned, but not Christ.

Are you sure? Besides what Jythier already mentioned...here's a couple more.

With true repentance and contrition of Heart, we may unitedly implore the forgiveness of our Sins, through the merits of Jesus Christ, and humbly supplicate our Heavenly Father, to grant us the aids of his Grace, for the amendment of our Hearts and Lives, and vouchsafe his smiles upon our temporal concerns."
Samuel Adams, Feb. 28, 1795, proclamation,
issued while he was Massachusetts governor

Father Benjamin Rush once declared:

I have been alternately called an aristocrat and a democrat. I am neither. I am a Christocrat. I believe all power . . . will always fail of producing order and happiness in the hands of man. He alone who created and redeemed man is qualified to govern him.
David Ramsay, An Eulogium Upon Benjamin Rush, M.D. (Philadelphia: Bradford and Inskeep, 1813), p. 103.

I'll take your word for it (though a quote might be nice) , but it is still only one person, not "the founding fathers

John Jay was considered a Founding Father.....if I remember correctly he was one of the signers of the Declaration. He was also Governor of NY later on.

BTW Shades, I never said Christ's name was mentioned in the Documents...only that the early Fathers mentioned Christ by name in their personal documents or were quoted using His name. Also I couldn't even begin to quote the stuff they said about the bible and the scriptures and of course we know that Christ is the center of the bible which they ALL thought very highly of...even Jefferson who was the LEAST religious of them all. I can tho, if you want. I've got tons.

What I'm seeing here is a dividing line not of Dems and Republicans so much as age. I'm seeing you younger ones on one side and us older geezers on the other......at least for the most part here.

What did you expect? It's the young idealists versus the cynical geezers.

The list goes on. Do you still think the ACLU is evil when they are fighting for the rights of Christians?

I Know of NO Christians that believe the ACLU is on their side. NOT ONE.

Here's my list. Look at this very carefully.....what Christian in their right mind would support the ACLU after all this? This may give you an idea of WHY I think the ACLU is evil. Do you agree with all this?

THE ACLU OPPOSES

The use of drug-sniffing dogs
Attempts to strengthen DUI alcohol laws
Laws restricting areas where the sexual offenders of children can live
Life sentences for juveniles convicted of extremely violent crimes
The “Three Strikes”law mandating harsher sentences for those with three felony convictions
Withholding voting rights for felons

Mandatory sentencing laws for crack-cocaine possession
Shutting down Methadone clinics
Laws stipulating where half-way houses may be located
Drug testing of welfare recipients
Federal faith-based drug treatment programs
Federal laws banning student loans to convicted drug addicts

Abstinence-only sex education for students
Conscience protection rights for medical providers
Informed consent and “Women”s Right to Know”laws
Pro-life state license plates
Federal immigration laws targeting border security and preventing entrance of illegal aliens as well as the enforcement of those laws
Denying drivers licenses to illegal aliens
Federal laws identifying citizenship status of those receiving treatment at medical facilities

Marriage between only a man and a woman
A school competition asking “students to explain why preserving marriage between men and women is vital to society and why unborn children merit respect and protection

Ten Commandments displays
Use of government facilities by the Boy Scouts
Religious symbols in public parks
Prayers at military academies (ie VMI)

Keeping “under God”in the Pledge of Allegiance
Keeping the national motto (“In God We Trust”) on currency
Faith-based programs
The observance of religious holidays

The mention of God in a state motto (Every single state has God in their Charter....every one)
Prayers to open legislatures

Moment-of-silence laws at schools
Religious sales tax exemptions
Educational choice and vouchers
Prayer in judicial arenas

Mayor”s prayer breakfasts
City council prayers

School board prayers
Nativity scenes
Religious symbols in city seals
Voluntary distribution of Gideon Bibles


Graduation prayers
Athletic prayers
Intelligent Design or any mention of creation or a Creator
Prayers at school or at school events
School choirs singing religious songs

Opposes library policies blocking access of minors to sexual content, gambling, and illegal activities

Opposes denying visas to foreigners who oppose the United States government
Opposes one federal agency from sharing with another federal agency the information that it has on Arabs in America
Opposes banning convicted sex offenders from having access to parks where children play


THE ACLU SUPPORTS

Medical”marijuana laws
Abortion and abortion-on-demand
Increased funding for pro-abortion groups such as Planned Parenthood
Euthanasia
Government services for illegal aliens

Homosexuality [
Gay marriage and benefits for gay “families
Adoptions by gays, gays as foster parents, “parental”rights for gay “parents and gay parent family training
Gay clubs on school campuses, gay campus publications and articles on campus, and forcing straight students to attend gay sensitivity training
Gays in the military
Pro-gay state license plates

Bigamy and polygamy
Pedophilia and legalizing sex between children and adults [
Transgender rights

Supports anti-American foreign terrorists captured on the battlefield having the same constitutional protections as U. S. citizens, even though the guarantees in the U. S. Constitution apply only to American citizens

Supports activists disrupting military funerals and confronting the distraught family members with offensive and inappropriate language

Supports the notion that the “separation of church and state” trumps students' freedom of speech