legalizing murder is the right thing, because many people are murdering anyway.

Is suicide still illegal in the U.S.? It was, because of those stupid christian-values.

They legalized it in Canada, because they saw that it didn'T really stopped people from doing it, lol. However, when someone commit suicide, now, he's no more charged; he recieve psychological help. Which is a much better approach, IMHO. Atheist for the win.

Abortion was a self-inflicted wound, considered illegal. They made it legal, so people could receive help into making it much less letha for the woman. No murder

First, yes, suicide is (in some states, not all). Second, I was showing you the absurdity of that argument. Just because people do things does not mean it should be made legal.

But third and more importantly, it should be for the people to decide. That has yet to happen in the USA. Contrary to popular belief:

1. Abortion was not illegal in the USA prior to Roe v. Wade (just some states).

2. Reversing Roe v. Wade will not make abortion illegal in the USA (just some states, and even then it does not look like a majority of them).

So if you want to make abortion legal, let the voters decide. I know that is a radical concept in a democracy, but it has been shown to work on occassion.

Why would they force psychological help on someone for doing something LEGAL? In America people receive psychological help as well.

What you're saying, basically, supports my position. You're saying that as an atheist you HAVE NO morals. If your morals can change tomorrow and by various circumstances, then you HAVE NO MORALS. You are, then, AMORAL.

You can laud the superiority of atheism all you want, cikomyr, but you're arguing against yourself in the very arguments you present.

LULAPILGRIM POSTS"

CIKOMYR POSTS:

Cikomyr,

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it must be a duck.

Translation: Your talk is like Communism.

In your scenario, the most innocent one of all, the baby in the womb, pays the heaviest and most severe price...the death penalty. How about counseling the 17 year-old girl and giving the option of carrying the baby to term and giving the baby up for adoption? Isn't that a win-win situation, Cikomyr? The best possible thing the girl can do for her body is deliver the baby (as being pregnant isn't a disease). She delivers a life into this world to live out all life's choices, something our mother's allowed us to do.

You do know, Cikomyr, that women die from abortions...and the complications afterwards, oh my? Breast, ovarian, and uterian cancer...deep depression, suicidal tendencies, infertility, the list goes on.

If you forbid abortion for the minors without their parent's consent, the #3 will happen,

says who? Before 1973 adoptions were more prevalent. There were girls I knew that got pregnant. Some kept their babies and some gave them up. I know of not one case personally where they tried to abort their baby. Not saying it wasn't done, I know better but I think it was more the case they went thru with the pregnancy,......including Jane Roe in 1973 who was Norma McCorvey and the lady who was behind this whole thing to begin with. She gave birth to a little girl and never aborted her own child.

Legalizing abortion was the right thing, because many woman were aborting anyway

ya, let's just keep lowering the bar....I'm afraid that what you said here is the way of our society. Give the people what they want, not what's best....so if it's drugs....let's just legalize it anyway because they are doing it anyway. Let's allow 12 year olds to have sex with 40 year olds....it's being done anyhow. Let's just put it on the books.

Put the bar down another notch. Heck.....let's just throw the whole bar away. We don't need it anymore.

So if you want to make abortion legal, let the voters decide. I know that is a radical concept in a democracy, but it has been shown to work on occassion.

Ya, let's just put this to a vote. Let's get radical.

that's stupid talk, and you know it. I am not talking about making everything perfectly acceptable and legal within our society. I am talking about creating a solid regulation of abortions. If abortion is illegal, then anybody can go breake the law in un-sanitarial condition. If abortion is made legal, then people will come to the authority. You can always make conselling session obligatory for women who wants to abort, so they do not on a whim.

Legilizing something gives the room for any measures of counselling, backgroung checking and the suches. I can't say I like the abortion measures in some states, because there aren't almost any. But I hate even more the state that made abortion totally illegal, because it prevent the women who wants to abort.

(for the other arguments up-there, I'm gonna answer to them later. But it still stupid to call me a communism just because I want godless institutions. Is France communism? Am I a communism even if I believe in a lot of capitalist things? (even if I studied financial mathematics - with a lot of pleasure - ?!?) You just say stupid populism arguments trying to discredit what I have to say)

Let them go break the law in unsanitary conditions. If we catch those Drs, lock 'em up. Murder charges. I don't know what to do with the mothers, though. I just don't know.

Counseling only works for those who want to counseling. So making a session or two mandatory won't work, and if you make too many sessions then it will be too late for the abortion anyway. Actually, I like that. Must attend 42 weeks of counseling before having an abortion.

where in all this are the babies' rights? She had a right BEFORE she got pregnant NOT to get pregnant. She shouldn't have the right to kill her baby after she made her decision for the sake of the life inside her.

There are so many ways NOT to get pregnant...including abstaining, that we shouldn't even be having this discussion.

In NH they just passed a bill that parents DO NOT have to be notified of their daughter's pregnancy. I think this is so wrong. She could die having an abortion and the parent's would have no clue nor a chance to rectify the situation. I know if it were my daughter, I would NOT be happy she got herself pregnant but I would do everything I could to ensure the child was treated humanly making a decision that was best for both daughter and child.

Abortion is not the best solution for either mom to be or baby.

This is an excellent suggestion and one if fully implemented, would certainly lower the high number of abortions.

For years, pro-life work has been trying to get Planned Parenthood to counsel (by this I mean truly counsel) the girls and women that come to their facilities. But PP resists. Why? becasue they are in business for one reason only---money---and there is no money if the girl doesn't have the abortion. Truth is abortion is a cold, hard business.

Every time legislation is offered that would have these facilities show an ultra-sound of the babe in the womb and explain to the girl what is actually in there and what happens to her body, PP attorney's challenge that.

Some people have tried to stand in front of PP abortuaries and offer counsel to the girls and women before they go in, but that effort has been just about been prohibited outright. "Buffer zone" laws force them to stand too far away to be effective.

KFC POSTS:

I've been following the "parental notification" laws closely. The State of New Hampshire essentially said to parents you have no rights in this regard. The State usurped parental rights. This is an unjust and bad law and people need to understand what is at stake. Bad laws invite bad behavior.

NH public schools require written parental notification for the counselors and nurses to give school girls a tylenol, yet those same counselors and school nurses can take this girl to PP for a surgical abortion without the parent's permission. This is as outrageously twisted as it gets.

Another twisted aspect to this is that underage girls go to PP and tell them they became impregnated by an adult-age male. This is a crime...yet PP fails to report this to local police.