A Marriage Made In Paradise
Published on May 14, 2010 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Religion

Last weekend I was asked to speak at a woman's luncheon for Mother's Day.  When I inquired as to what they wished for a subject matter they left it up to me.  So I thought about it for a day or so.  Then I came up with Eve.  Why not?  Afterall she was the mother of us all.  Since I've never heard a Mother's Day Sermon on this topic I decided I'd tackle it myself.   

Woman are important to God and He makes that very clear thru His written Word.  Even so, the message gets clouded by the cultures.  In the Eastern culture we know that women are surpressed.  In the Western culture women are aggressive and domineering more than ever.  During the days of Christ the Jews kept their women as subservient.  I heard that that it's written about the Torah that it would be better to burn it than to teach it to women! 

But what does the bible say about woman's role in society?  What is their purpose?  Jesus did much to elevate women during His time on earth and they loved Him.  It was to a woman He first announced He was the Messiah.  It was to women He first revealed Himself as risen from the dead.  He delivered at least one woman from unjust justice. 

Women were used mightily by God.  I think of Rahab who God used to save two spies facing sure death as a result if caught.  I think of Miriam who was a prophetess and ministered alongside her brother Moses.  Deborah was a judge and leader who was chosen to deliver God's people during the terrible days of the Judges.  Esther helped save her people, the Jews, from sure extermination and Lydia was a business woman who was instrumental in starting a first century church out of her home. 

So we come to Eve.  We know very little of this first lady.  We do know she was God's final creative work in the first week.  She was also a companion for Adam.  But there's more. 

Everything started out well in the garden although it didn't end that way thanks to Eve and her husband.  Eve led her husband into direct violation of God's revealed will to them.  So they were banished from Paradise.  She is a very human portraid of falling into sin but also of picking up the faith afterwards. 

She was created for a unique role in creation.  She was to minister to Adam and with Adam being his help-mate.  She was designed to complete him as well as assist him.  We read this in Genesis 1:26-28:

"And God said Let us make man in our image after our likeness and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the air and over the cattle and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.  So God created man in his own image in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them.  And God blessed them and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth." 

Did you see the word "them?"  This was for both of them. A job for two.  These things were too great for them to do alone.  We see a few things about God's purposes for mankind here. 

1.  To be like Him; to reflect God's image in creation.  It took both of them to do this.  We think of God as a He and that pronoun is used but it takes both man and woman to accurately reflect God's image.  We think of God as mighty, powerful, just, logical, strong, etc. but He's also depicted in scripture as loving, tenderhearted, merciful, gracious etc.  We see both male and female characteristics in Him. 

2.  They were to rule over creation.  They were given authority over all the earth.  Together.

3.  They were to reproduce; be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth.  Together.

So zooming in on Eve let's look at why she was created.  What is her purpose for being created?  Gen 2:18-22:

"And the Lord said It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper for him.  And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every fowl of the air and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them and whatsoever Adam called every living creature that was the name.  And Adam gave names to all cattle and to the fowl of the air and to every beast of the field but for Adam there was not found a helper for him.  And the Lord caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept and he took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh.  And the rib which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman and brought her to the man." 

1.  Adam was not complete by himself.

2.  It was not good.  Even in Paradise something was not good.  Seven times, it was mentioned in the first chapter after God created, God said that "it was good" until we get here to 2:18 which says "it was not good." 

3.  Man was completed with need.  He was created incomplete.  He was made complete with Eve. 

4.  She was to be a helper suitable for him. 

Looking a bit further we can see some principles for the marriage relationship right here that brought this first couple together in Holy Matrimony. 

Genesis 2:23-24

"And Adam said this is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh she shall be called Woman because she was taken out of Man.  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh."

We see that God brought Eve to Adam.  It wasn't Adam's job to find a mate which makes me wonder looking around today at all the broken marriages.  How many consulted God in the choosing of their mate?   What would it have been like if they did?  God know more than we do so why don't we ask Him first?  

Unlike the animals she was like him.  She was bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh.  She was perfect for him.  The relationship necessitated him to leave his mother and father.  Obviously this was meant for future generations because these two were a special first couple with no parents.  This marriage required cleaving and the Hebrew word implies "to be joined by commitment."   Marriage is a commitment not a feeling or an emotion.  We need to stick it out, stay together and work things out as much as possible with us. 

Marriage results in being one together.  This one flesh points to the physical body but in principle also includes all that a person is; mind, emotions, will etc.  One cares for the other as one would care for oneself. 

And marriage results in nakedness without shame.  They had no shame.  They were naked and it was good.  This, again, goes beyond the physical.  We need to be open and up front with each other.  There should be no hiding, no secrets from each other. 

So everything started out well.  Until Eve was tempted.  Then everything changed.  She entered into a discussion with a serpent.  Is it no wonder women and snakes don't get along today?  We'll start there next time.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Comments (Page 7)
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on Jun 24, 2010

I don't see where man would have been the "sons of God" either

Again, 

You do not see becasue you aren't looking at the big picture which is detailed in the chpaters before Genesis 6 where the actual term "Sons of God' is mentioned.

Adam and Eve disobeyed and as a consequence of their sin, life is a battle between good and evil and all must choose.

In Hebrew "sons of God" is beni Elohim. Becasue "men began to call on the name of the Lord" Gen. 4:26, and examples such as Enoch who "walked with God", 5:22-24, a marked line of Godly men inhabitated the ancient world at the same time an ungodly line, led by Cain and Lamech, also existed. It's not difficult...the phrase represents a Godly line of men as in Psalm 73:15's  when the Godly are called "the generation of your sons".

 In the New Covenant in the Blood of Jesus Christ, by Baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost that gives our soul the new life of sanctifying grace we become children of God.

 

 

on Jun 24, 2010

examples such as Enoch who "walked with God", 5:22-24, a marked line of Godly men inhabitated the ancient world at the same time an ungodly line, led by Cain and Lamech, also existed.

This is true Lula, but cannot be proven to be the "sons of God" therefore the controversy exists.  You seem to dismiss this as I said it that settles it.  It's not quite that easy.  This very debated passage is not an easy one to exegete. 

The Hebrews in the OT NEVER used the term "sons of God"  for the Godly heroes like Enoch.  Enoch was NEVER called the son of God.  Neither was Abraham, Isaac or Jacob.  Abraham was called "the friend of God."  They were servants of the most High and would never think they were sons of God.  So basically the description of a Godly person in the OT would be more "servant" than son. 

Jesus made that clear when he said this in John 15:14-15

"You are my friends if you do whatsoever I command you.  Henceforth I call you not servants for the servant knows not what his Lord does, but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known to you." 

Again like Leauki and I have been trying to tell you, you don't have a good grasp on the Jewish History or their scriptures.  You're taking what we know today or say today as truth for back then.  It isn't so.  You have the advantage of 20/20 hindsight now but it can't be applied back then to them.  Think about it...how much OT did you learn in RCC catechism? 

 

on Jun 24, 2010

This is true Lula, but cannot be proven to be the "sons of God" therefore the controversy exists. You seem to dismiss this as I said it that settles it. It's not quite that easy. This very debated passage is not an easy one to exegete.

 

KFC,

There is no controversy as far as I am concerned. 

Whisper2 asked both of us some questions and we are both responding as we best can...you from your religious frame of mind and me from mine. It's as simple as that.

Hopefully, Whisper2 is learning along the way, I know I am and hope you are too.

 

 

 

 

 

on Jun 24, 2010

There is no controversy as far as I am concerned.

so are you telling me you have blinders on?  Because that's in effect what it sounds like.  You're going to erase 2,000 years of a puzzling passage and tell everyone that you have the answer and that settles it? 

I've always thought Seth (as you seem to) but I'm more inclined really now after looking at this closer to go with the #2 view that I gave above.  That seems to fit the best by looking at the wording. 

So yes, I'm always learning.  I'm not so rigid that I feel that I know it all.  I feel I haven't even hit the tip of the iceburg yet and that's after almost 40 years of reading this book; with the last 15 years even more in depth.  It's a lifetime of study. 

 

 

on Jun 24, 2010

The anakim according to deciphered Sumerian texts originally means the "gods that came from the sky or heavens".   Since the Sumerian language is the worlds oldest written language, older even than Hebrew, I would say that the root meaning for that word means "gods that came from the sky or heaven".  The nephillum are also spoken of in the Sumerian texts as well and are defined as the "sons of the god from the skies or heaven".  Not men of great valor wealth or reknown although they were said to be in the Sumerian texts men of such talents as you have mentioned.  Every word of the hebrew texts is based upon the Sumerian words, so is the Acadian language as well as many others.  As a matter of fact, many of the stories in the OT are based on much older Sumerian ones.  Since the Sumerian tests are older I must believe that they hold the original meanings of those words and they are not as you described above.  If you have other evidence to the contrary however, I would be more than glad to hear it.

Since Cain was banished into the earth before Adam and Eve concieived other children, (they only had two, Cain and Abel), I find it hard to believe that his wife was one of his sisters, so it doesn't make sense to me.  Are you telling me that one of his sisters was also banished into the earth?  If so, where's your evidence?

 

I dont think in "hollywood" Lulapilgrim.  I am thinking in genetics, which are confirmed and tested truths.  There must be a gene for giantism in order for it to exist whether it be in this modern world or the world of the bible.  If none of the existing people spoken of were described as "giants" then that gene had to come from someone since these were the only people, according to most deciphering of scripture, that  existed at that time and they are the orginal human beings from whom all are descended.

 

Considering that most people of middle eastern descent are small in stature, Goliath could have been of european descent.  Which is exactly what is being proposed by archeologists today who are searching for the beginings or roots of the Philistine peoples.  Europeans, although not tall in stature compared to people of today, were shown to be taller than those living in the middle east of that time period.   I don't think that one can use Goliath as an example of the "giants" spoken of in Genesis.   Nevertheless it still leaves the question of  giantism in Genesis open.  As to the godly men such as Isaac and Enoch being the "sons of God" KFC has made the point of why they can not be, extremely well.   I dont' think that it would prove anything if I belabored the point.

on Jun 24, 2010

Since Cain was banished into the earth before Adam and Eve concieived other children, (they only had two, Cain and Abel), I find it hard to believe that it was one of his sisters, so it doesn't make sense to me. Are you telling me that one of his sisters was also banished into the earth? If so, where's your evidence?

It says in Gen 4:16-17 that Cain went out from God into the land of Nod and that Cain knew his wife and she conceived....

we also know from Chap 5 that Adam was 130 years old when he had Seth (the named 3rd son).  What we don't know is when Adam and Eve first conceived and how many children were between Cain and Seth. 

I guess because it's not important.  The only named children were the three boys because that's all that was important to the story.  They were perfect specimens with perfect reproduction systems so I'm sure many many children (no birth control) were born to Adam and Eve especially since Adam lived to be 930 years old.   It looks like from just the common sense reading of the text that when Cain left he took a wife to go with him.  So again, that could be a sister or niece especially since we see that Seth was born when Adam was 130 years old. 

I don't htink that one can use Goliath as an example of the "giants" spoken of in Genesis.

I agree.  That's making a jump that scripture doesn't take. 

 

on Jun 24, 2010

The anakim according to deciphered Sumerian texts originally means the "gods that came from the sky or heavens". Since the Sumerian language is the worlds oldest written language, older even than Hebrew, I would say that the root meaning for that word means "gods that came from the sky or heaven".

and that would fit nicely with #2 (Royalty) that I mentioned before.  Now it makes more sense to me Whisper.  So thanks for this bit of info.  This makes sense...think about it... Nephilim means "to fall."  It's like God is saying here in Genesis that the mighty will fall.   My husband has taken this view and I think now I'm leaning in that direction more and more. 

It goes well with the rest of scipture that says that God will exhalt the humble and take down the pride.  Pride goes before the fall!  Good stuff!! 

Here are the reasons (evidences) that I spoke of earlier that point to this theory. 

1.  The ancient Aramaic Targums render "sons of God" as "sons of nobles" and the Greek translation of Symmachus reads "the sons of the kings or lords." 

2.  The word gods is used in Scripture for men who served as magistrates or judges (Ex 21:6, 22:8, Ps 82:1,6).

3.  Structurally the account of the Cainite Lamech (Gen 4:10-24) and that of the "sons of God" in Genesis 6:1-4 are very much alike.  In each there is the taking of wives the bearing of children and the dynastic exploits.  The former passage ends with a boast of judgment by Lamech, and the other ends with God's decree of judgment.  Lamech practiced bigamy and he enforced his policies by using tryanny.  The portraits are parallel and depict states of tryanny, corruption and polygamy.

4.  Near Eastern discoveries have validated the pagan use of all sorts of gods' and goddesses' names in order to give more clout and prestige to the governments of Egypt and Mesopotamia, hence the title "sons of God." 

5.  The word Nephilim occurs only here and in Numbers 13;33 (not Golith) where it refers to the Anakim who were people of great stature.  Like I said before nephilim/Gibborim is not "giants" but something more like "princes" "aristocrats" or "great men"  and goes nicely with what you said "gods coming from heaven." 

They really are not but the people thought they were.  It's like everywhere else, human nature makes it so that certain people make themselves gods lording it over the "lower people"  As long as their are humans walking the earth there will be those who want to be the king of the heap.   And they will fall, in a mighty way. 

 

on Jun 24, 2010

Where did Cain's wife come from? No where does it say that Cain took his sister to wife. So where did she come from?

KFC posts:

no where does it say he didn't. But it does say that Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters. So a reasonable conclusion would be either he took a sister or neice to wife.

Yes, this is absolutely a most reasonable conclusion.

Whisper2 posts:

Since Cain was banished into the earth before Adam and Eve concieived other children, (they only had two, Cain and Abel),

No Whistper2...you have an incorrect understanding of Adam and Eve and their children.

Genesis names 3 sons, Cain, Abel, and Seth and then goes on to say that Adam "beget sons and daughters" 5:4.

Moses only recorded a few details regarding human creation. That God made man and from man He made woman and then gave them the power to increase and multiply. To answer your question, from here we must use reason and come to the most reasonable conclusion. As God made only one pair, and from that pair the earth was to be populated, then Cain must have married his sister.

Tradition has it that Adam had 33 sons and 27 daughters during the 930 years of his life. 

.......................

Whisper2,

You say, "Since Cain was banished into the earth....

What do you mean "into the earth"?

 

on Jun 24, 2010

I don't htink that one can use Goliath as an example of the "giants" spoken of in Genesis.

Why not? 

You asked about the giants and all I'm saying is Goliath, a Philistine of gigantic size from Gath was one of them most probably a descendent from those giants in verse 4.  

I agree. That's making a jump that scripture doesn't take.

Goliath as well as his family and descendants were most definitely "giants" and Scripture is quite clear on that point.

The story of David and the Giant Goliath is told in 1Sam. 17; more details are given in 2 Sam. 21:22; 1Chron. 20:8.  

Here are parts of the story.

The Philistine army had gathered for war against Israel. The two armies faced each other, camped for battle on opposite sides of a steep valley. A Philistine giant measuring over nine feet tall and wearing full armor came out each day for forty days, mocking and challenging the Israelites to fight. His name was Goliath. Saul, the King of Israel, and the whole army were terrified of Goliath.

So David volunteered to fight Goliath. It took some persuasion, but King Saul finally agreed to let David fight against the giant. Dressed in his simple tunic, carrying his shepherd's staff, slingshot and a pouch full of stones, David approached Goliath. The giant cursed at him, hurling threats and insults.

.................

From your own KJV.....2Samuel 21:15-22 recounts the story and more...

15Moreover the Philistines had yet war again with Israel; and David went down, and his servants with him, and fought against the Philistines: and David waxed faint.

16And Ishbibenob, which [was] of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose spear [weighed] three hundred [shekels] of brass in weight, he being girded with a new [sword], thought to have slain David.

17But Abishai the son of Zeruiah succoured him, and smote the Philistine, and killed him. Then the men of David sware unto him, saying, Thou shalt go no more out with us to battle, that thou quench not the light of Israel.

18And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which [was] of the sons of the giant.

19And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew [the brother of] Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear [was] like a weaver's beam.

20And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of [great] stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.

21And when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea the brother of David slew him.

22These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.

 

on Jun 24, 2010

Lula you're not understanding.  Did you read my last couple of postings? 

The Nephilim and the giant Goliath are two different things.  For one thing it is not even debated that Goliath was big; a giant if you will.  So that's NOT the debate.   But the Nephilim are not so cut and dry.  There are NO measurements given to them like Goliath.  Nephilim is mentioned ONLY in two spots.  Golith is not one of them.  He's NEVER called a Nephilim.   Giants can mean stature not necessarily height is what I'm trying to tell you and by what Whisper put down that makes the most sense here. 

So it's not giants as in height like Goliath and that's why Goliath was NEVER called a Nephilim. 

You're assuming that the word Nephilim is the same as the giant Goliath and I'm trying to tell you it doesn't look that way by looking at the word Nephilim/gibborim. 

It's like saying Oprah Winfrey,  Barbara Walters, Diane Sawyer are giants in their industry.   They are the nephilim of our day. 

One thing's for sure.  I'm glad I had this conversation with the both of you because it totally made me more sure of the passage than I was before.  In fact, it makes much more sense now.  Although we are not going to settle the controversy here by any stretch.   

 

 

 

 

on Jun 24, 2010

What if, just what if, your common sense reasoning  is wrong?   I don't know that men of that time would use metaphors, they seem to be creations of speech of a later time.  However, what if these men were describing exactly what they saw, "gods that came down fromthe sky or heaven"? 

I know that we have a tendency to think that these descriptions that these early people used were not factual because we do not believe that "God" nor anyone else could have come down from the sky or heaven.  It simply makes no sense to our reason.  We have never seen it and because of that fact we simply don't believe it, so our reason says that it must mean something else.  What if it is possible?  After all in the book of Moses God came down from the sky and dwelt on the mountain and spoke to Moses giving him the ten commandments that the hebrews were to live by.  Can we really say that Moses was a liar, or it what he said happened really didn't happen but he meant entirely something else by them?  I don't think that men of those times were stupid, or ignorant, or just didn't see what they say they saw.  They may have mistaken what they saw for something that it really wasn't, but they saw it never the less and in spite of what they called it, they described it acurately.

on Jun 24, 2010

What if, just what if, your common sense reasoning  is wrong?   I don't know that men of that time would use metaphors, they seem to be creations of speech of a later time.  However, what if these men were describing exactly what they saw, "gods that came down fromthe sky or heaven"? 

I know that we have a tendency to think that these descriptions that these early people used were not factual because we do not believe that "God" nor anyone else could have come down from the sky or heaven.  It simply makes no sense to our reason.  We have never seen it and because of that fact we simply don't believe it, so our reason says that it must mean something else.  What if it is possible?  After all in the book of Moses God came down from the sky and dwelt on the mountain and spoke to Moses giving him the ten commandments that the hebrews were to live by.  Can we really say that Moses was a liar, or it what he said happened really didn't happen but he meant entirely something else by them?  I don't think that men of those times were stupid, or ignorant, or just didn't see what they say they saw.  They may have mistaken what they saw for something that it really wasn't, but they saw it never the less and in spite of what they called it, they described it acurately.

on Jun 24, 2010

You're assuming that the word Nephilim is the same as the giant Goliath and I'm trying to tell you it doesn't look that way by looking at the word Nephilim/gibborim.

No, I'm not assuming this at all. Here's all I've said about Nephilim....

Some versions have Nephilim instead of "giants", but this difference is the least of it.

Yes, Nephilim comes from the root "to fall" and it describes the general condition of "fallen" mankind at this time. The entire race of men, these "giants" included, (except Noah and his family) have fallen into sin and evil pervades the whole earth. The next verse 5 confirms that God sees this great evil and grieves over it is getting ready to destroy His Creation and would have had it not been for Noah who found grace in the eyes of the Lord God. And thus the Great Flood.

Although it was possible that there existed men of giant physical stature, Num. 13:33; Dt. 2:10, it is a secondary point.

Even after all that's been said here, "Nephilim" still means the general condition of fallen mankind.

Whisper2 seemed to want to know somehting more of giants in Scripture...so I brought up Goliath,  the most famous or (infamous) giant of all of Scripture.

 

 

on Jun 25, 2010

Whisper2 posts: 89

Where did the giants come from?

KFC posts:

The word Nephilim occurs only here and in Numbers 13:33 where it refers to the Anakim who were people of great stature. The root meaning as I said before is "to fall." In Genesis 6:4 the Nephilim is associated with the term "gibborim" and that comes from "gibbor" meaning "a mighty man of valour, strength, wealth or power." Nimrod in Genesis 10 was such a gibbor. He also was clearly a king in the land of Shinar. Hence the meaning of nephilim/gibborim is not "giants" but something more like "princes" "aristocrats" or "great ment."

Neither the Douay Rheims nor the KJV has "Nephilim" in Numbers 13:33-34 

"And they spoke ill of the land, which they had viewed, before the children of israel, saying, the land which we have viewed, devoured its inhabitants: the people that we beheld are of a tall stature. 34 There we saw the giants the sons of Enac (Anak), which come of the giant kind: in comparison of whom we seemed like locusts."

 There is no doubt whatsoever that there were giants of an unusual size in Palestine whom the Isrealites called "Nephilim". Og, Goliath, and the sons of Enac are mentioned in Scripture. But the mention of "Nephilim" in Genesis 6 verse 4 not only introduces the account of the fact that these giants existed, but also to introduce the story of the Flood with a moral orientation---the constantly increasing wickedness of fallen mankind.

 

 

on Jun 25, 2010

The word nephilim has it's roots in the Sumerian language and it means "sons of the gods from the sky or heaven".  It would be the Sumerian definition that is the root of the word.  Sumerian is the oldest written language in the world, far older than hebrew.  Since both the sumerian and the hebrew nations come from the same area known as the middle east, it is more than reasonable to think that the hebrew adopted the sumerian word for their own.  It would only stand to reason that in Genesis where it reads that "the sons of God" that that statement or description would be totally accurate according to the root of the word.  However since the  scripture reads that God was angered, it could also  be said that they were the "sons of the gods that came from the sky or heaven" that fell out of favor or grace with God.   However I still don't understand why you say that they would have been men from the line of Adam.

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