Scientist: Terrorists Could Use Insects as Weapons

I'm afraid you might be right, at least when talking about the so-called "traditionalists" in the CC. They are frightening people.

I heard about that.

I.e a Catholic country? Yes, I knew that.

lula posts:

By Christ's New Covenant Church, I mean "the Church" as prophecied in the OT and "the Church" that Christ founded and established. "The Church" is a visible society of the validly baptized faithful, united together in one organic body by the profession of the same Christian faith, by the participation of the same Sacrifice and the same 7 Sacraments, under the authority of the Sovereign Pontiff and the bishops in communion with him. "The Church" is comprised of the faithful united under the Pope who is the Vicar of Christ, Who Himself remains the Cornerstone.  Psalm 86:5;117:22, Eph. 4:15 DR version.

During the very time "the Church's" bishops were committing to paper the writing which we call the NT, as confirmed by that handy history of the apostolic age, the New Testament itself, "the Church" was a functioning organism. Survivng documents of historians and the Church Fathers testify to "the one Church" with one set of unchanging doctrines, identical to those which have continued to our time in the Catholic Church despite the fact that the truth is constantly under attack, even as it is on this thread.   

KFC POSTS: #81

And in your resphrase, we see the truth of Christ's doctrine of the Church as a visible society is rejected; your rejoinder being the Protestant error which redefines "the Church" as each believer.  According to your belief no one could tell who belonged to the true Chruch and who did not. Scripture clearly shows that Christ established a visible CHurch, not churches and appointed visible Apostles. "The Church" was to be and is a visible, authoritative, priestly society, of which Christ promised to remain until the end of the world. And those belonged to the Chruch who accepted the teachings of the Apostles and preserved in the discipline imposed upon them. In Acts 20:28, we read St.Paul discourse to the clergy to the Church at Ephesus, "Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost has placed you bishops, to rule the Church of God, which He hath purchased with His own blood."

If "the Church" is an invisible quality confined to, as you say, each believer, then no human being could say where the true Chruch is to be found, and no one could hear her voice or obey its precepts. But our Lord established a visible Chruch and He compared it to a city set upon a hill which cannot be hid. One and only one of the visible and organized Chruches in the world is His and the Catholic Chruch alone can show the characteristics which He declared should be those of His one true Church.

KFC, how could bishops rule the Church if the Church is an invisible quality confined to each believer?   Your definition of the Church doesn't make sense in this context or in any of the Biblical passages in which we find the word "church" of which there are many.

"The Church", the one founded by Our Lord: "In the last days, the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be prepared on the top of mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills, and all nations shall flow into it." Is. 2:2. Of this Church, the Church of all nations, Christ said, "YOu are the light of the world, A city seated on a mountain cannot be hid." What cannot be hid, can be seen. St.Paul asks, "What have I to do to judge them that are without! Do not you judge them that are within? For them that are without, God will judge."

It's not true that God is ever present in the soul of each believer.

Almighty God and sin are incompatible....God does not abide where there is grevious sin and so if a believer's soul is in the state of unrepentant mortal sin, the Holy Spirit is not with him.

 Saint Paul taught that "The wages of sin is death."

Agree...the "clean oblation" is Christ.

Malachais 1:11  "For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts."

KFC POSTS:

Again, Malachais' prophecy foretells that God will accept of the sacrifice that shall be offered in every place among the Gentiles. A "clean oblation" to Catholics is the precious Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharistic Sacrifice of the Mass and that's why I said Christ abides 24/7 in fulfillment of Malachais' prophecy 1:11 until the end of the world.


This fulfillment was evidenced in the institution by Jesus of a more perfect Sacrifice; an "unbloody oblation", later called the Holy Mass, in place of the bloody Mosaic sacrifices, Mal. 1:11; St.Luke 22:19-20.

This sacrifice was to be offered on altars all over the world, "from the rising of the sun, unto the going down thereof", instead of a single altar in a central place, as called for in the Old Testament. Deut. 12, Esdras 7:17, Mal. 1:11.

Actually, I know what you're looking at but it's not what you're thinking! Your error lies in thinking that Malachais was speaking of one country and of one people and in forgetting he prophecied the end of the Jewish sacrifices which were offered in one place and instead would be offered all over the world from the rising of the sun until the going down.  And 2, Malachais' prophecy has already been fulfilled the moment the Gentiles accepted the Good News of Christ and were converted to the Church (baptized). From that time on, God's name was indeed great among the Gentiles. In Acts, we read how they met on Sunday and the "clean oblation" was offered to God by them comemmorating Our Lord's Body and Blood by the breaking of the Bread. And the 24/7 offering of the "clean oblation" continually goes on today, in every Catholic Mass all over the world.

It is today becasue Malachais' prophecy, the last of Isrea's divine prophecies, has already been fulfilled just like all the other OT prophecies....in Jesus Christ. Since he prophecied in the 5th century BC, he was speaking of a future millenium, and that millenium began when Christ was born and will go until the end of the world.

Agree. The time of the Gentiles is the Millennium, the Church age.  And yes, God's name as was preached and accepted by by the Gentiles has been preached and accepted by people of every nation all over the world...it will continue until the exact number has been reached only known by God, Our Father in Heaven.  So, God's name which is Jesus Christ is indeed great amongst those who believe, follow and love Him by keeping His commandments.   

who said anything about being invisible?  Have I said that?  Where?   Why do you keep insisting this? 

No.  I keep telling you the church is people not buildings, not popes, not creeds, not pillars, not denominations.  The church is ecclesia.....called out ones.  Am I invisible?  I'm a stone in the Lord's church.  My fellow Christian brothers and sisters help make up the building regardless of their affiliation on earth until God comes back to take us home. I think it was Peter who called us lively stones.   

The bible says it's the spirit that bears witness.  That means when I meet another Christian anywhere in the world, I'll know.  Since I've had experiences along this line, I know that what the bible says about this is true.  Remember Jesus said the wheat and tares are to grow together until the harvest.  The churches (denominations) are filled with tares.  When you're in God's word and you understand the way of the spirit it's not hard at all to spot these tares. 

This OT scripture HAS NOTHING to do with the RCC.  Isaiah the prophet was writing to the Jews and it was meant for the Jews.  Not the Catholics.  FOR CRYING OUT LOUD READ THE THING IN CONTEXT.  It says in v1....."this is what Isaiah saw concerning JUDAH and Jerusalem."  The whole context has to do with the House of Jacob.  The Gentiles WERE NEVER referred to like this.   The whole context is Jewish, not Gentile or Catholic.  This is nothing more than taking God's word and making it say what you want Lula because your loyalty is not to it but to the RCC. 

It's not truth.  It's a lie.  It's a lie under attack.  I keep showing you but you don't want to know because you are convinced that the RCC is the ONLY church and that's just not true.  You do not have ears to hear. 

Show me where the church was prophecied in the OT. 

this is Catholic speak, not biblical speak.  I already gave you scripture saying the contrary Lula.  God's spirit doesn't come and go out of a person.  He dwells with his own and never leaves nor forsakes them.....that's what Christ meant when he said after he left he would send the comfortor (Holy Spirit)  That's what Paul was speaking of when he said the Spirit indwells the believers and that we, now are the Temple of God. 

Really?  I've already shown you he does and I can show you lots more where that came from.    Can you give me scripture backing up what you just said?

no. 

Lula posts:

KFC POSTS:

I agree that we are required to corporately worship together...and so where should we do that if not in a Church building, KFC?

KFC POSTS:

What do you mean NO? Don't Protestants make their "born again" testimony public in Protestant buildings they call their church?

no kiddin????

using our military force to establish such a presence by means of preemptive attack violates the basic tenets of modern civilization and repudiates our claim to be the greatest nation on the planet. 

because we plan to keep exploiting iraq for a long time to come?

which branch of islam?

forgive me for presuming, but i get the very clear sense you're hinting rebuilding babylon is one more step in the inevitable race to the end of days.  

a much more obvious and rational reason seems to be escaping you: in the wake of massive aerial bombing and urban warfare, survivors have 2 options--rebuild or move.

lula posts:

KFC POSTS:

KFC and Leauki,

Since your working as a tag-team and both believe I don't understand how the Old Covenant Mosaic Temple, its priestly sacrifices, it's ceremonies and rites were used in the worship of Almighty God, would you enlighten me? 

My full statement is above...I used the word "holier than" and went on to explain my reasoning (of which I note neither one of you refuted). Do that and I'll defend how the Catholic Church, the 7 Sacraments and worship of God replaced them and are indeed more perfect and holier. 

Hint: St.Paul didn't warn for nothing that the rituals and laws of the Old Covenant being abolished, now count for nothing, confer no grace, and save no one and worse, they bring a curse upon those who obstinately cling to them. Saint Paul also declared that if justification came from the Old Law, "then Christ died in vain."

He said "the law brought nothing to perfection" knowing the holy religion of the New Covenant does. Salvation for all people is only through Jesus Christ.

The supercession of the Old COvenant and its rituals by the New Covenant is another of the Catholic dogmas present day Modernists are trying to "interpret" out of existence.

Lula posts:

Yes, you do keep saying the Church is people as well as the church is all believers. This conviction of yours is a Protestant construct which isn't true. No one can look at people and say this one is the church and this one isn't.

 The best we can say is the Church is made up of people.

Protestants see "the Church" as an invisible entity and that it refers collectively to all believers united by faith in Christ despite major variations in doctrine and denominational allegiance. While Catholics understand "the Chruch" simultaneously as a visible, historical entity and as believers united as the Mystical Body of Christ.  

Saint Paul called the Church a mystery. Jesus' founding of the Church was completed with the sending of the Holy SPirit, the actual birth took place on the First Pentecost Day in 33AD. Ever since then, the Church has shown itself to be a Divine-human reality, a combination of the Spirit working and the people striving in their human way, to cooperate with the gift of His presence and Christ's Gospel.  

The image of the Church as the Mystical Body of Christ is found in St.Paul's writings to the Corinthians. He teaches that our communion with Christ comes from "the cup of blessing" which unites us in His Blood and from "the bread which we break" which unites us to His Body. Becasue the bread is one, all of us, though many, are one body. The Eucharistic Body of Christ, "the clean oblation", offered at every Mass, and the Church are, together, the Mystical Body of Christ.

Romans 12 and 1Cor. 12 StPaul emphasises the mutual dependence and concern we have as members of one another. In Ephesians and Colossians, the emphasis is on Christ as our Head. Through Christ, God is unfolding His plan, 'the mystery hidden for ages" to unite all things and to reconcile us to Himself. Bucasue this mystery is being unfolded in the Church, Ephesians calls the Chruch "the mystery of Christ."

Ephesians 4:5 speaks of the Chruch as the Mystical Body of Christ having one body, one Spirit, one faith, one baptism, etc. This is why there can be but one true Church of God at any one time. And this is why "the Church" can't be as you say... all believers and neither can it be hundreds of doctrinally conflicting churches as exist in the Protestant world which assumes God to be doctrinally and morally divided.

I agree the Chruch is not buildings, but her worship, although not exclusively, is held in them...just as the Old Mosaic Covenant worship was held in the Temple.

I say not exclusively becasue the Mass has been celebrated in homes and in fields, forests, etc. I remember seeing a movie of Pope John Paul II's biography who as a young priest he lived in Communist Poland. He would take his students hiking in the forests and celebrate Mass there.

Scripture refutes your statement the church is not pillars....1Tim.3:15 calls the Chruch "the pillar and ground of the Truth."

How can your definition of Church as all believers be the pillar and ground of truth?

The basic tenets of modern civilisation includes waiting for Hitler to start World War 2 and the Holocaust instead of taking him out in the early 1930s?

Perhaps modern civilisation needs reform.

Or perhaps we have to change the definition of "preemptive attack" not to include attacks in response to thirteen years of attacks against coalition aircraft and terror attacks, which were _technically_ violations of the cease-fire Saddam agreed to.

I sure hope so. You guys have been exploiting Germany and Japan for a long time and it worked out beautifully for the populations.

Survivors only have that option now, since 2003. If you think survivors of aerial bombing and urban warfare were able to rebuild a lot before the invasion, you are mistaken. Everything I saw in Iraq was new.

how many hours a day did you have electricity?   water?

i truly don't know the answer to this question so i'm hoping you'll be able to provide it:  how many coalition aircraft and their crews were damaged during those 13 years?

by iraq?  on whom?  911? 

the holy trinity? 

None, I hope. The Iraqis shot at coalition aircraft patrolling the no-fly zones but I think they never managed to take one down.

You might not be aware of this (and I know that the media kept repeating that Saddam Hussein was not involved in terrorism), but Saddam's Iraq financed and supported PLO terrorists until, obviously, 2002/2003.