Hey! Cool! That's exactly what I've been arguing in every single forum that discusses evolution here. Science and Religion don't have to be mutually exclusive. That's actually really interesting, that scientists have lost their jobs over believing that there's a creator, or a grand designer of the universe...interesting.

I know. It's exactly what I've been saying all along also Cedarbird. Quite a few times I've also mentioned that my son has to be careful what he says right now because he's just starting out and he can lose his career over this. He keeps his mouth shut for exactly the reasons cited in this movie clip.

It is pretty interesting when you really understand what's going on here.

Looks interesting. ID Scientists losing their jobs for believing in something they feel they have evidence for, eh?

What happens to scientists that believe in evolution and feel they have evidence for that?

Oh that's right. Eternal damnation. But by golly, they get to keep their jobs! Yay!

Seems like the ID guys are getting a good deal to me.

Interesting! Quite a conspiracy theory feel to it though!

Actually not heard it put exactly that way Ock, but you do have a point here.



It is interesting I think. It's not news to me really but it does seem interesting a movie is being made about this. I'm wondering really, if there isn't a catch in here somewhere? It's almost too good to believe from a Christian POV so I'm thinking maybe we're seeing a hook here only to bash the Christians in the end.

Maybe it's just the skeptic in me. I'll watch it tho unless I hear that it's only a trick. Time will tell. I may send this to my son to see if he's heard anything about this.

I think the slant here is law. Ben Stein WAS a lawyer before he was an entertainer, after all.

Personally, I'm all for ID being taught in school - in a Religious studies classroom, though - not a science classroom. That's where the "Christian bash" aka showing that ID isn't science may come in. Legally speaking, a science teacher shouldn't lose his/her job for believing any particular thing. But if they get paid to teach science, and they teach ID instead, then they aren't doing their jobs, and that would be grounds for dismissal.

I suppose after losing so badly in Dover the ID believers had to try something else.

ID is not science if you think it is you do understand what science is period. Maybe they lost there jobs because the don’t comprehend there chosen field.

I’ll give you an example that proves ID is not science. The discovery of DNA completely revolutionized the field of biology what did the ID proponents do with this new information? Nothing, it changed nothing. ID will remain the same no matter what new information comes along and that’s faith.

Here’s a good podcast from Brian Dunning explaining basically how the ID movement is killing faith.
Link

Personally, I'm all for ID being taught in school - in a Religious studies classroom, though - not a science classroom. That's where the "Christian bash" aka showing that ID isn't science may come in. Legally speaking, a science teacher shouldn't lose his/her job for believing any particular thing. But if they get paid to teach science, and they teach ID instead, then they aren't doing their jobs, and that would be grounds for dismissal.

I agree.

~Zoo

Just a sidenote.........I don't believe in the ID theory any more than I do the Evolutionist's therory. 

Do I think this one (ID) is better because they at least acknowledge God?  Not really.  To me a lie is a lie, no matter how big.

The ID theory is nothing more than people trying to marry Darwin and Moses together, trying to make it all fit together and it doesn't. 

As far as ID being taught as Religion...I would also like to see Evolution taught as Religion too.  I think they are both belief systems that could be taught in the same class.  Neither can prove the beginning of life because neither can produce eyewittness evidence  to the origins of man. 

 

 

Why can't it? Why can't the evidence for evolution and the belief in a divine creator, God, work together to form a nice little workable truth?

Accidentally posted twice. Sorry.

Because of the wording in scripture. It's very clear that a day meant a 24 hour period. The word was olam and used as it was in the Hebrew it always meant 24 hours. Also even the most liberal scholars including a liberal translation of the bible will honestly acknowledge at least the writer of Genesis (Moses) believed it was a 24 hr period of time.

"The ID theory is nothing more than people trying to marry Darwin and Moses together, trying to make it all fit together and it doesn't."

It is also an attempt by creationist to get creationism taught in public schools as science.

"As far as ID being taught as Religion...I would also like to see Evolution taught as Religion too. I think they are both belief systems that could be taught in the same class. Neither can prove the beginning of life because neither can produce eyewittness evidence to the origins of man"

I’m sure you’re a very nice person and I don’t wish to be cruel but there’s an entire section of your brain that is not functioning. I’m not surprised as it is a requirement to be a fundamentalist.

I don’t understand why you would want or need science to affirm anything written in scripture. As soon as you do your saying you’re not sure if the Bible is inerrant. Faith is believing in something despite the evidence. Trust is believing in something because of the evidence. You don’t have faith in science you have trust in what the evidence is telling you.

Evolution isn't a belief system. There are no teachings related to it in any way aside from what it contains, an explanation of itself. Evolution is a process, not a belief. I don't recall anyone worshipping evolution or the idea behind evolution or performing any prayers or ceremonies about evolution.

~Zoo

No.  He's very good at what he's doing.  He's been told by his advisor board that he's one of the most promising candidates they've had in this field in years.  After a three hour oral exam in front of six Ph.D's in various fields after extensive questioning one of the Cardiac Doctor's went to my son's boss and said if all his students were like him, he'd have the best lab in the world.  Pretty impressive.  So , no he's exactly where he should be.  He also just received a very impressive grant.  You should know how hard it is to get one of these. 

I don't need Science to affirm scripture.  Scripture actually affirms science.  I've already said the bible does not argue or debate the existence of God.  It already expects the reader to know and believe there is a God.  Faith is described in scripture as the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.  Faith gives reality and proof of things unseen, treating them as if they were already objects of sight rather than of hope.

and I don't do this.  I don't bash you, even if done in a sorta apologetic way.  This happens all the time here.  Instead of going after the argument fully, stabs are taking at my character.  I don't see the need to do this.  It's not productive and shows you have lost the argument.  It's also a double sided argument (once again).  I could say the same thing.  I could say you are not using the part of the brain where God is suppose to fit, instead filling it with all sorts of fairy tales the evolutionists tell you.

Well not this creationists nor others like me.  There's a reason why this is forefront all over the country right now.  Scientists are having a hard time fitting the theory of evolution in without some sort of designer.  Everything has a designer behind it.  Everything. 

I, as well, as many others believe it is a belief system. It's an Atheistic Humanistic Materialist Religion.  It attempts to explain origins with no evidence.   In fact I wrote an article about this called "Is Evolution a Religion" way back.  So you may want to check that out sometime. 

 So in your opinion you don't think so and in my opinion I do think so.  Agree to disagree on this one.