I think it depends on the other students. If they accept her as a man for the purposes of the locker room, she should be allowed to use the men's locker room. If they don't want her in there, perhaps another option should be investigated - she could use a third change room instead (eg if there's a disabled one).

As for rape, it's possible, but guys also get raped in men's locker rooms. We can't let fear govern our actions.

I think it depends on the other students. If they accept her as a man for the purposes of the locker room, she should be allowed to use the men's locker room. If they don't want her in there, perhaps another option should be investigated - she could use a third change room instead (eg if there's a disabled one).

Ok, but where's it going to stop? If you allow this, it will only take a very short time until you start to see men in the woman's bathroom. Then what? What about the women who don't want men in their bathrooms? What if some are ok but others are not? What if I'm one of those uncomfortable ones who desires NOT to see a man in the ladies room but the majority are ok with it? Do I now have no choice but to "hold" it?

I think I agree with Life Happens. If you have the equipment use the men's room. If not...you're in the ladies room. Plain and simple. It's the best objective way there is. Let's keep it simple. Let's not go down the slippery slide. We only end up in trouble when we start down that route.

The only other choice is the transgender bathroom where you can let them all go in regardless of equipment and let them figure it out. But let's leave the ladies room the ladies room and the men's room the men's room for the rest of us.

Can someone say segregation?

Sounds like the slippery slope we are heading towards.

ugh...really danielost. Do you mean that?

no but that is the way it should be presented to her. after she signs a release form

Daniel, You Scare Me... and not in a good way.

Cacto:

Then why bother seperating the sexes in public changing rooms and bathrooms at all? Let's just set up one big room for everyone. If anyone is uncomfortable with that, that's their own problem, right?

The fact is, Elizabeth is saying that anyone uncomfortable with her being there is violating her rights. Apparently only her own feelings should matter.

this girl is setting this school up for a law suit. 1 if she doesn't get her way. 2 if she does get her way and some stupid guy decides to remind her she is a female.

Locker, changing and bathrooms are segregated based on gender.  Biological gender.  Not "What gender do you THINK you are?"

I am sympathetic to those who have issues based on gender identity, but like many other quirks that don't actually impact your ability to lead your life, it's something you just learn to deal with.  How would these sue-happy folks feel if a guy demanded separate facilities because he was extremely homophobic and couldn't stand to be in close proximity to naked/nearly naked men?  What about someone with crippling social anxieties?

There are many people out there with all degrees of issues that, if the school gives into this complaint, could be used to demand further special treatment.

Oh how about this one... a white student demands a white-only change room because he's not comfortable in mixed race company... cites biological differences.  How would that one play out?

That's not what scares me about you... This is what scares me about you...

i know what scared you.


what scares me is someone who is going to sue this school for millions of dollar. and there is nothing the school can do to stop it.

There are many people out there with all degrees of issues that, if the school gives into this complaint, could be used to demand further special treatment.

yes, exactly and the slippery slope I was referring to. There are all sorts of ways these types of things could play out. We do for one, we'll have to do for the rest sooner or later based on what's already been allowed.

Can someone say segregation?

Segregation. There....I said it!! lol

Oh how about this one... a white student demands a white-only change room because he's not comfortable in mixed race company... cites biological differences. How would that one play out?

ha! I'd tell him to go home and use his white only at-home bathroom or get over it. .....but hey....that's just me.

You're getting on in years, so I'll forgive your ignorance of the current state of play with bathroom usage. Women already use men's bathrooms when they need to, so frankly if a man wants to use a woman's bathroom I really don't think women have anything to complain about.

Change rooms are different - I've been to places with unisex change rooms and they tend to be pretty segregated anyway, guys on one side, girls on the other. Whether that will change over the years I don't claim to know, but I don't think it's anything to be scared of - if you don't want other people to see you naked don't get undressed in public places. If you don't want to see naked people, move to Saudi Arabia. You're definitely in the minority where you live.



I'm fine with that. It's fair enough, and at an increasing number of places around the world that's becoming the case.

I've never believed in this alleged inability of otherwise sane men and women to avoid raping each other as soon as they see each other naked. We let children see each other naked and they tend to turn out okay. Not every situation is sexualised, and if you have a problem with controlling your sexual urges then there's no better place to figure yourself out than college. Our ancestors managed to deal with public nudity with no problems. We can do the same if we can be arsed.

But, until the universe becomes a utopia where everyone believes as I do, I don't think it's so stupid to ask around to see if anyone who uses that locker room would consider it an issue. They probably do, in which case an alternative situation should be arranged. Transgenders are becoming more common or at least coming out of the alleyways and bars. They need to be catered for.
Whether that's with a unisex bathroom as well as/instead of male/female only ones or through simple social change to accept that gender has nothing to do with biology, it still has to be dealt with appropriately.

What is next is Elizabeth will complain that people in the locker room are making her feel unwelcome and uncomfortable. This has nothing to do with gender identity or equal rights, this has everything to do with a person who has decided that her comfort and feelings are the only ones that matter. Everyone else should just understand and allow her to do what she wants... and if they won't, she wants a judge to order the world to live her fantasies with her.

lol

Isn't that what they did with the workplace?