Give Up Your Faith or Your Life?
Published on August 19, 2007 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Religion
Moving right along in Revelation 6 as we read about the 5th seal, we look at v9-11 to read:

9When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Here we see the persecution of the saints.

In the January 07 USA Today a poll was taken to reveal that 17% are persecuted for their religious beliefs while 14% are persecuted for their sexual identity. Interesting, given the high volume of press coverage given to those persecuted for sexual identity in comparison to those persecuted for religious beliefs.

Also in the current news are those being held in Korea. These are Christians being held with at least two having been killed already. Persecution continues today as it has for years, and it's only going to escalate. Just mention the name of Jesus among the secular and you get a very strong sense you've said something wrong. It's ok to use "God" but not the name of Jesus Christ.

For now Christians are tolerated at best, but in the future all nations will encourage persecution as the powers of hell will come fully against all believers. The martyrs seen here in this passage were killed for their worship of Jesus.

The opening of this 5th seal brings us to the middle of Daniel's 70th week. The timeline would look something like this:


Beginning............................Middle...................................End.

l______________________l__________________ l
1,2,3,4........................................5

Birth Pangs.....................Persecution


The Anti Christ is going to lead this persecution unlike any other time in history. The breaking of this seal removes whatever is restraining him now from unleashing total persecution against the world and Christ. "For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way." 2 Thess 2:7

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thess 2:4

He now will be free to persecute Christians to the fullest extent. The abomination of desolation will now be fully realized here at this time when the Anti-Christ sits on the newly built Jewish Temple and declares himself God as he schemes, plots and seeks the death of those whose allegiance is to Jesus, the one he abhors. The penalty for not worshipping the AC will be death.

As his demand of worship intensifies so too will the persecution increase. Whether or not you believe in the pre-trib or pre-wrath rapture all believe that these martyrs do die for God.

Now to keep along with Matthew as we've done, we see this played out using verses 9-22 in his gospel. This section in Matthew, as here in Revelation, is after the first 4 seals were broken.

John sees the slain "sphazo" which means to butcher, slaughter (sacrifice) to; to maim (violently); kill, slay. This may be done to mimic the OT sacrifices as seen in Leviticus 4. John sees them under the altar as if they are sacrificed or paying the ultimate price with their lives. Paul mentioned in Philippians that he would be willing to pour himself out as a drink offering for God. He too would be martyred under the hand of Nero proving he literally meant what he wrote. He loved Jesus that much.

Two reasons are given here for the deaths of these martyrs. The first would be for the Word of God. Jesus was called the Word of God by John in his gospel. Maybe these martyrs were proclaiming just these last day events much like I am doing here.

The other reason given for their untimely deaths is for a testimony. Perhaps it was their personal witness. Perhaps they died for the Word of God and the call for all to repentence.

We see here their cry is passionate. We get the sense of urgency in their cries. They will be avenged with the next seal as we will see soon. As time marches on many more martyrs will join them. Their cry is not for themselves so much as it is for God to be exalted. They see and know that Satan himself is being exalted and they wish, as we all do, that God will be the one who is exalted by all.

We ask, "how long will you allow sin to rule on the earth?" During this time many will turn to Him waiting for His justice to finally be executed. To avenge is "ekdikeo" and means punishment and retribution.

God is holy and his holiness demands justice. They cry out for holy and truth here. Their cry is not for themselves but for God.

Those who dwell on the earth describes unbelievers. They are earth dwellers who settle down and remain. This world is their home as they have made it their home. We, as Christians, are foreigners and should be treated as such. We should not be comfortable here.

Stephen, the first martyr, before he died cried out for mercy and grace for those who were about to kill him. We are now in the age of God's mercy and grace, but a time will come when judgment begins. We read in Luke 18:7-8a:

And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? “I tell you that He will avenge them speedily

The white robe would symbolize the righteousness of Christ. They can now rest in Him. Their job on earth is finished. They can enjoy heaven and rest in God's timing. Man is moving ahead for a little while longer. God has a certain time limit. He knows the number of martyrs that will die and when finished the next seal will bring about His vengeance. It's not long now he says.

Persecutiion Has a Present Purpose

My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

Testing increases our faith. Peter says this testing molds us and builds us up as Christians. He said in 4:12:

Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people’s matters. Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.

Persecution Has a Future Purpose

The sifting of tares and wheat purifies God's believers. A non-believer will not be persecuted for the name of Christ. The church is filled with both tares and wheat. True believers will endure to the end but the non-believers will not be able to stand the heat.. Purging will occur. We read in 2 Thess 2:3:

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition

So a falling away will come first. How? Persecution. Those willing to die for God are the true believers. The rest will leave. "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us". 1 John 2:19

If persecution happened in your church, how many would stick around? What would you do? Would you be willing to die? Persecution is to be expected. Do you give up your faith or do you give up your life? Persecution is to be expected.

Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also." John 15:20

Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. Matt 16:24

Are you willing to set yourself aside? Are you willing to deny self? For the sake of Christ? Are you being persecuted? Or, are you ashamed of the name of Jesus? The two are related. We may need to be more bold in our witness. As we do so, expect persecution.

















"

Comments (Page 7)
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on Sep 06, 2007
KFC POSTS:
In the realm of science it seems as tho this all started in the mid 1500's with Nicolas Copernicus who challenged the common world view. Several ancient Greeks had suggested that the earth rotated around the sun and Copernicus realized mathematically a sun centered universe made more sense than an earth centered universe. He knew the repercussions this would make so he decided not to release his findings until on his deathbed.




And guess what, KFC, if you'll check history you'll find that

while the Catholic Church ALLOWED the publication of Copernicus' work, your heroes, Calvin and Luther, condemned it on spiritual grounds. Some of the technical difficulties were dealt with by Kepler; they made the geocentric theory more plausible, but Kepler was persecuted by the Protestants in Tubingen and had to flee to the Jesuits for protection in 1596.

on Sep 06, 2007
Oh no, not Ock and KFC with common ground! The end of the world is near!
on Sep 06, 2007
Oh no, not Ock and KFC with common ground! The end of the world is near!


Was that necessary?
on Sep 06, 2007
Only on a Revelations thread!
on Sep 07, 2007
After Galileo the world would never again let the church choose how peopel viewed their physical world. That would become the task of scientists


unless those scientists permitted themselves to be so wildly sidetracked by evidence & scientific method as to fool around and conclude our universe has been in existence far longer than 6000 years while disputing the likelihood of a global flood wiping out all life on earth except for noah and his passengers.
on Sep 07, 2007
Only on a Revelations thread!


*drumroll & cymbal crash*

but seriously ladies & germs....
on Sep 08, 2007
KFC, I hope I'm not misinterpreting this, but I think we just found common ground.


you're not misinterpreting.

The end of the world is near!


HA! I think so anyway.

unless those scientists permitted themselves to be so wildly sidetracked by evidence & scientific method as to fool around and conclude our universe has been in existence far longer than 6000 years while disputing the likelihood of a global flood wiping out all life on earth except for noah and his passengers.


just remember Kingbee, all the Scientists (Christian or atheistic) have the SAME evidence. It's the interpretation of the evidence is what is in question.




on Sep 09, 2007
After Galileo the world would never again let the church choose how peopel viewed their physical world. That would become the task of scientists


to fool around and conclude our universe has been in existence far longer than 6000 years while disputing the likelihood of a global flood wiping out all life on earth except for noah and his passengers.


all the Scientists (Christian or atheistic) have the SAME evidence


i guess i shoulda been more specific.

based on your previously posted statements at ju, i'm pretty sure our old buddy--the 'reasonable person' of contract & jury fame--would conclude the following (as i have):

a. if you correctly represent your church's position regarding biblical inerrancy as well as what you believe to be a divinely ordained duty to propagate that position;

AND

b. if you and your church were legally empowered or permitted to do so;

THEN

c. you and your church would gladly impose upon our entire population your collective view of the physical world's origin and history while excluding all other conflicting views.

i wish it wasn't the case.

should you choose to dispute this--and you'll please support your argument by quoting or providing link(s) to statements you've authored & posted here or elsewhere prior to 9/8/2007--i'll happily retract my claim.
on Sep 09, 2007
Kingbee,

Where in the world have I ever said I would like to or think we as Christians should "impose" on the world our Christian faith?

I agree with the bible as being inerrant. I agree in the young-earth belief based on scripture. I believe that we, as Christians, have the same evidence scientifically as those who are not Christians. But I do not wish to impose my belief on another as you suggest.

In the past (here on JU) I have opined the fact that we, as Christians, don't have equal opportunity to voice our opinions/beliefs in the public forums as does the other side. I would like to see equal opportunity unlike today's one side being suppressed.

Realistically there is no way my church, nor I, have such high expectations as to think this would ever become a reality. Neither do we have a desire to repeat history's past mistakes by trying to force this on the mass population.




on Sep 16, 2007
I agree in the young-earth belief based on scripture.





"Well, we added up all the people born from Adam and Eve, added up their ages: roughly 12,000 years."

"Well, how scientific. I can't flippin argue with that kind of, you know, research. You think the world's 12,000 years old?"

"That's right."

"K. Can I ask you a question?"

"Sure."

"It's a one word question."

"Fine"

"Dinosaurs."

I mean, if the world's 12,000 years old and the Bible covers it, why didn't someone bring up flippin dinosaurs? You'd think someone woulda brought that up...somewhere in the flippin book:

And Jesus and the disciples walked down the path towards Nazareth, but oh, the trail was blocked by a giant Brontosaurus...with a splinter in his paw. And the disciples did run a-screaming, "What a big flippin lizard, Lord."

"I'm sure gonna mention this in my book," said Luke.

"Well I'm sure gonna mention it in my book," said Matthew.

"I'm not sure what I saw," said Thomas.

Timothy nudged him: "It was a big flippin lizard, hey Thomas?"

But Jesus was unafraid, and he took the splinter from the Brontosaurus' paw, and the Brontosaurus became his friend. And Jesus sent him to Scotland where he lived in a Loch, O so many years, attaracting the fat American families with their fat American dollars to look at the Loch Ness Monster. And O the Scotch did praise the Lord: "Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Lord."

Twelve thousand years old. I asked this guy, said, "Come on man - dinosaur fossils. What's the deal?" he goes:

"God put those here to test our faith."

"I think God put you here to test MY faith, dude. I think I've figured this out."

Does that--That's what this guy said. Does that bother anyone here? The idea that GOD might be screwin with our heads? Anyone have trouble sleeping restfully with that thought in their heads? God's runnin' around burying fossils: "Ho ho ho....We'll see who believes in me now. Ho ho! I'm a prankster God. I am killing me. Ho ho ho ho!" You know, you die, you go to St. Peter:

"Did you believe in dinosaurs?"

"Well yeah, there were fossils everywhere. (crash) Aaaargh!"

"What are you an idiot? God was screwin with you! Giant flying lizard, you moron! That's one of God's easiest jokes."

"It seemed so plausible! Aaaaaargh!"

Bound for the Lake of Fire.



From a routine by Bill Hicks, may he rest in peace.

And...the 100th reply on this thread!
on Sep 16, 2007
God put those here to test our faith


Yeah, like we needed our faith tested. Last I checked, spiritual things are implausible enough, without God just trying to trick us with the big bones.
on Sep 16, 2007

"K. Can I ask you a question?"

"Sure."

"It's a one word question."

"Fine"

"Dinosaurs."


I'm sure gonna mention this in my book," said Luke.

"Well I'm sure gonna mention it in my book," said Matthew.

"I'm not sure what I saw," said Thomas.


hahahahahah Ock. Nice little skit but there's just one problem.

Matthew and Luke wouldn't have written about dinos because they were not roaming the earth by then. Most believe the dinos either died off in the flood or soon after with the climate change. Besides that dinos wasn't the topic of conversation for them.

Besides there are a few small references to dinosaurs in the bible but they come from the oldest book of the bible....Job. But even if they weren't mentioned at all a case could be made that there are other species not even mentioned once in scripture.




on Sep 16, 2007
Actually, most believe the dinos were extinguished from a meteor impact (I think...ready to be wrong on that)

And the skit was by one of the most spiritual men I've ever listened to. Lots of expletives (which I substituted 'flippin' for in respect for your wishes) and a pretty dicey background of drug and alcohol abuse. He died very young from pancreatic cancer, and is missed to this day. He believed devoutly in a living God that you could talk directly to without ever having a middle man (religion).

Bill Hicks' most famous show closer:

"You've been fantastic and I hope you enjoyed it. There is a point -- is there a point to all this? Let's find a point. Is there a point to my act? I would say there is. I have to. The world is like a ride at an amusement park. And when you choose to go on it, you think that it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills, and it's very brightly colored, and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question - is this real, or is this just a ride? And other people have remembered, and they come back to us. They say "Hey! Don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because, this is just a ride." And we...kill those people. Ha ha ha. "SHUT HIM UP! We have a lot invested in this ride. SHUT HIM UP! Look at at my furrows of worry. Look at my big bank account and my family. This HAS to be real." It's just a ride. But we always kill the good guys who try to tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok. But it doesn't matter because: it's just a ride. And we can change it any time we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love.

~Bill Hicks
on Sep 16, 2007
I thought the going theory was that dinosaur bones were planted by people digging for oil to eliminate risk.

"Uh, hey, Al, look here, there's a bone.. could be historical! Er, better stop digging and start being paleontologists!"

"What's a paleontologist?"

"We'll figure it out as we go."
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