built on solid evidence
Published on April 5, 2007 By KFC Kickin For Christ In History
As a student of the bible, I love to hear about the discoveries that have over the years only given much credence to this book. There have been many stories of brilliant minds that have attempted to disprove the scriptures only to succumb to the realization that the bible is truly a magnificant piece of literature unlike any other.

William Albright, known for his reputation as one of the great archaeologists, said: "There can be no doubt that archaeology has confirmed the substantial historicity of Old Testament tradition."

He also said: "The exessive skepticism shown toward the Bible by important historical schools of the 18th & 19th centuires, certain phases of which still appear periodically, has been progressively discredited. Discovery after discovery has established the accuracy of innumerable details, and has brought increased recognititon to the value of the Bible as a source of history."

Millar Burrows of Yale observes: "Archaeology has in many cases refuted the views of modern critics. it has shown in a number of instances that these views rest on false assumptions and unreal, artifical schemes of historical development."

He also exposes the cause of much unbelief: "The excessive skepticism of many liberal theologians stems not from a careful evaluation of the available data, but from an enormous predisposition against the supernatural."

This is still true today. How many of us are coming to the table with our predisposed beliefs based on what we've just picked up along the way? I hear alot of repititon from those that have no idea where they've heard such and such. It's like gossip. They are picking up and passing on what they have had whispered in their ears. I did this myself for a while until I realized I really had nothing to back myself up on other than what I heard from another.

He adds: "On the whole, archaelogical work has unquestionably strengthened confidence in the reliability of the scriptural record. More than one archaeologist has found his respect for the Bible increased by the experience of excavation in Palestine". :

Sir William Ramsay is regarded as one of the greatest archaeologists ever to have lived. He was a student in the German historical school of the mid 19th century. He believed the Book of Acts was a product of the mid 2nd century AD. He was very convinced of this belief. In his research to make a topographical study of Asia Minor he was compelled to consider the writings of Luke, the physician. As a result he was forced to do a complete reversal of his beliefs due to the overwhelming evidence uncovered in his research. He said this about his change of mind:

"I may fairly claim to have entered on this investigation without prejudice in favor of the conclusion which I shall now seek to justify to the reader. On the contrary, I began with a mind unfavorable to it, for the ingenuity and apparent completness of the Tubingen theory had at one time quite convinced me. it did not then lie in my line of life to investigate the subject minutely; but more recenly I found myself brought into contact with the Book of Acts as an authority for the topgraphy , antiquities and socieity of Asia Minor. It was gradually borne upon me that in various details the narrative showed marvelous truth. In fact, beginning with a fixed idea that the work was essentially a 2nd century composition and never relying on its evidence as trustworthy for first century conditions, I gradually came to find it a useful ally in some obscure and difficult investigations."

Ramsay concluded after 30 years of study that "Luke is a historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy......."this author should be placed along with the very greatest of historians." Ramsay also says: "Luke's history is unsurpassed in respect of its trustworthiness."

To even consider this book coming from an all powerful God it MUST meet certain requirements. It has to be transmitted to us accurately from the time it was originally written so we have exactly what God wanted us to have. Next it must be correct when it deal with dates, events and places. A book that has these things mixed up has no right to claim it comes from an infallible God.

If you test the NT documents with the same standard of tests applied to any of the Greek classics, the evidence overwhelmingly favors the NT. If someone states that we have a reliable text of classics, then that same person would be forced to admit that the NT is also just as reliable.

Actually many don't realize that the original NT copies were in better textual shape than the 37 plays of Shakespeare written in the 17th century, after the invention of printing. In every one of his plays there are gaps in the printed text where we have no idea what originally was said. Textual scholars were forced to make good guesses to fill in the blanks. With the abundance of existing manuscripts of the NT we know nothing has been lost through the transmission of the text.

Those who contend that the Bible is unreliable historically are not historians or archeologists. While I can't prove the bible is inspired or written by the very hand of God, (although I believe it to be true,) I do believe the evidence supports the claim the Bible certainly is the very word of God.



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Comments (Page 5)
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on Jan 14, 2008
For example, the OT contains matters that are imperfect and provisional.


Lula, Most interesting. How do you discrern which is which?

God used their innacurate ideas to get across a true message: that God always was and ever will be and that from nothing, God created all that exists.


Including Himself, I presume. Actually, I disagree with the created universe position of both Christianity and Judaism. As challenging a thought as it might be, the universe, in my opinion, has no beginning and no end.

We humans learn things step by step including the knowledge of the fullness of God's Revelation.


Not always. Certain humans under certain conditions received the Word intact, such as Moses and the prophets.

They thought that God had caused everything, including evil. In this they were mistaken, and God didn't inspire their limitations which are entirely human. As centuries pass, people grow in maturity and we can grasp more and more of God's truth. From ignorance we move gradually to knowledge. The Holy Spirit progressively guides us to a fuller understanding of the truth. St.John 16:13.


So God does not cause evil? God is limited? We already possess the complete truth. We need to sit down and shut up and listen to it.

Take the topic of eternal life for example. The inspired author of Ecclesiastes wrote 300 years before Christ was mistaken about eternal life...but his is not the last word on eternal life...Rather, it is the fact that we need a Savior. Later OT books such as 1 and 2 Machabees taught the existence of life after death and the Messias came, the Christ and taught the reality of eternal life clearly throughout the NT.



We do not need a savior. We simply need to quite creating evil, do good, and create good for all beings. The message that we are somehow evil, as in born in sin, is a great mistake and has caused enormous suffering. Some Christians are so caught up in trying to prove to the world they have THE guy (Jesus) and THE RIGHT and ONLY WAY that they lose sight of the most important thing, life itself. Jews have come to understand, rightfully I think, that the Messiah is more an age than a person. We are all messiahs, partners with God, in making this word a better place.

The OT message must be interpreted and understood in light of the New Testament, especially the teachings of Christ.


There is no "New Testament" to God's Law. As you say, God is what He is. I assume what He revealed to Moses at Sinai was what He wanted His people to do: all 613 commandments. This is the Torah. As a Reform Jew I understand these commandments are not to be taken lightly, but that they are unfolding and need to be placed in a continual context.

Be well.
on Jan 14, 2008
For example, the OT contains matters that are imperfect and provisional.


Lula, Most interesting. How do you discrern which is which?


By understanding that the Old Law is completed or fulfilled in the New Testament of Christ.

Take the Temple sacrifices of the OT for example. They were both imperfect and provisional. We know that God ordered sacrifices to be the center of the divine worship under the OLd Law and He set up the Aaronic priesthood to carry them out.

What was sacrificed was given to God and had to be wholly consumed in His honor. These actions were meant to express on the part of him who made the offering some such thought as, Thou O Lord has created all things...Everything comes from Thee...To Thee I owe my life and all that I possess...I have deserved death at Thy hands..but I offer to Thee instead the life of this lamb. The bloody sacrifices were sacrifices of vicarious expiation and for this reason the person who offered it laid his hand on the head of the victim as a token he laid his sins on it and sacrifiiced it as a substitute for himself.

By sacrifices men were taught that they were depended absolutely upon God and owed Him worship and thanksgiving as their Supreme Lord. They were roused to a consciousness that they were sinners before God and owed satisfaction to the Divine Justice. They were also shown that they by themselves could not make satisfaction and required a mediator.

Pardon and inward sanctification could not be obtained through the blood of animals which were not clean but themselves lay under the curse of Adam's sin which was brought throughout the world. These sacrifices could only affect an outward justice and a legal purification by which those who made the offering were made clean in the eyes of the Law.

The chief suignificance of the OT sacrifices lay in their being types of the most holy and world-redeeming Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The bloody sacrifices were typical of His bloody Sacrifice on the Cross; the unbloody sacrifices were typical of the holy Sacrifice of the Holy Mass, and the meat-offerings of the Eucharist.

In short, all the sacrifices of the OLd Law found their fulfillment in the Sacrifice of our Lord who was the real vicarious Sacrifice (becasue Christ is truly Man) and having infinite efficacy to blot out all sin and win grace for all men becasue Christ is also true God and so able to make infinite satisfaction to the Divine Justice.



on Jan 14, 2008
San Chonino #18 posts:
Columbus was no devout follower of God. Read his own writings if you don't believe me. He was going off what astronomers of the day had proven, and what the church was adamantly against.


the church was adamantly against.


KFC POSTS:


This is true. The rest is not.

The bible and the organized church of the day....sad to say...shouldn't be but were two different entities. They were certainly not on the same page.


Well, the organized Chruch of the day was definitely the Catholic Church. The CC is the history behind the Bible so it was most definitely on the same page.

Christ was born and went into public ministry at about the age of 30. He began to preach a message that went to the hearts of many Israelites. The kingdom of God was being established on earth and the hopes of the believers would be fulfilled through Christ, His death and Resurrection. He appointed 12 Apostles with St.Peter as their leader and the one in which Christ would build His Church. Before ascending into Heaven, He told His followers to go and teach all nations what He had taught. Ten days later on Pentecost, the followers of Christ were touched by the power of the Holy Spirit and the Chruch was born. Led by Peter, they began to preach that Christ was the risen Messias and invited their hearers to put their faith in Christ and be joined by Baptism including a famous Pharisee named Saul. The number of believers grew by the thousands and even under great persecution, first by the Jews and then by the Romans, Christianity soon spread throughout the known civilized world.

In 70AD, the Romans beseiged Jerusalem and slaughtered its inhabitants and reduced the city to ruins. The Temple was no more, and Christianity was separated from its Jewish roots. The first Christians soon developed their own sense of identity and patterns of a Church structure was developed. The Book of Acts tells how the Apostles appointed bishops and were assisted by priests and deacons. Those who succeeded St.Peter as bishop of Rome were seen to possess the same authority Peter had received from Christ. Periodic persecutions continued, but the Church flourished. By the year 100Ad, there were three to five hundred thousand Christians. In 313, when Christians numbered in the millions, the Roman Emperor Constantine issued the decree of Milan granting religious tolerance to the Church. Christianity had become a Catholic Church as Christ had intended.

After Christ's Resurrection, and His followers had spread the Gospel, eventually the Christians felt a need to preserve their heritage in writing. Collections of Jesus' teachings and sayings, the liturgical prayers, and professions of the faith began to appear. In 51AD, St.Paul started to write his letters which were preserved and shared. By 65, the Gospel of St. Mark was written. Other Gospels and writings followed. By the end of the first century all the 27 Books of the NT was written and by 250 they were compiled into a list and were generally recognized as inspired. During these years, the sacred books of the Jewish people were evaluated by Christians. Since from the days of Christ, they usually quoted from the Alexandrian (Septuagint) version, the early Church Councils accepted the Holy Bible as Catholics accept today, with 27 NT books and 46 OT books.

There was little dissent until the 16th century when Martin Luther and other Protestants rejected the Alexandrian list.

The Holy Bible is eminently a Catholic Book. Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the Bible was written by members, Apostles and Evangelists of the Church. It was translated and preserved by members of the CC, and the canons were selected and determined by the CC (Sacred Tradition actually).

The Holy Bible independent or above the Church can never be. It isn't the Bible, but the Church that is the living community founded upon St.Peter and the Apostles and headed by their successors called the "pillar and ground of truth". This passage doesn't diminish the Bible, nor am I, rather it shows that Christ established an authoritive teaching Church which was commissioned to go and teach all nations and that He would give her the Holy SPirit to teach her all truth until the end of time. Christ emphasized the authority of His Church and the role she would have in safeguarding Divine Revelation which includes His written Word, (Sacred Scripture) and His oral Word, (Apostolic Tradition) which Catholics call the deposit of Faith.


on Jan 14, 2008
[quote]What was sacrificed was given to God and had to be wholly consumed in His honor. These actions were meant to express on the part of him who made the offering some such thought as...[quote]

No. Sacrifices were commanded by God. Any spin beyond that is our later conjecture. God seems to make the rules while people try to figure out why.

[quote]By sacrifices men were taught that they were depended absolutely upon God and owed Him worship and thanksgiving as their Supreme Lord...[quote]

Again, more after the fact guessing.


[quote] Pardon and inward sanctification could not be obtained through the blood of animals which were not clean but themselves lay under the curse of Adam's sin which was brought throughout the world. These sacrifices could only affect an outward justice and a legal purification by which those who made the offering were made clean in the eyes of the Law. [quote]

Jews of the Temple period and later in the Rabbinic period did not and do not subscribe to original sin. That sort of belief belongs in Christian theology. We are made clean by a host of practices, not just the Temple period's sacrifices.

[quote] The chief suignificance of the OT sacrifices lay in their being types of the most holy and world-redeeming Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The bloody sacrifices were typical of His bloody Sacrifice on the Cross; the unbloody sacrifices were typical of the holy Sacrifice of the Holy Mass, and the meat-offerings of the Eucharist.[quote]

You Christians sure do get into the bloddy stuff. Goodness.


In short, all the sacrifices of the OLd Law found their fulfillment in the Sacrifice of our Lord who was the real vicarious Sacrifice (becasue Christ is truly Man) and having infinite efficacy to blot out all sin and win grace for all men becasue Christ is also true God and so able to make infinite satisfaction to the Divine Justice.


Nice ex post facto rationalization. Again, for me as a Jew, there is no "Old Law" Just the Torah, God's one and only Law. For you there is you Godd News. And that's great: one more way for 'the nations' to get to God.

See ya!
on Jan 14, 2008
KFC asked

God is an imaginary friend? Really? So Jesus was imaginary?


Yes really, god is imaginary, made up. Was Jesus imaginary?, NO it is a well documente fact that Jesus was a real person, Jim Jones was real person, David Kuresh was a real person, and like countless others they all thought they were god.

Also you still seem to insist that the bible does not change.
Here are some examlples of non trivizl changes.

The whole new testiment, ask a jewish person. In fact heaven and hell don't exist to a jewish person, that is a new testiment creation.

Even the Jewish old testiment, is different the the KJV, but just in order, and names of books.

The morman church, added their version of there god.

The Islamic version of the bible has a large basis in the old testiment, they even believed that Jesus was a prophet of Ali, they even have a few books about Jesus that the KJV doesn't.

Look at what has changed in 2000 years, what is going to happen in the next 2000?
on Jan 14, 2008
Byran Harstad posts:
My argument against that was the history is very unstable, so basing something on history (and not evidence) is a very slippery slope.


It might be better to make your point if you would find another word other than "unstable" to describe History.

According to my dictionary, history is a noun; an event or story that happened to a person or a nation usually with an explanation with causes and effects OR simply a branch of knowledge or study that deals with past events. Nothing unstable about history here.

History books are writen by writers with opinions.

That writer is sharing his/her opinion of an event, then it gets modified by other writers opinions when they write their History Book.


This might be revisionist history you're describing here. We see alot of that happening today either for political correctness or multiculturism.

BH posts:
As far as the bible matching history...since most of the world doesnt follow the christian version of god, you might find one or two people who don't agree with you.


My argument against that was the history is very unstable, so basing something on history (and not evidence) is a very slippery slope.


Most of ancient history is heresy, and what was written down was from the point of view of the author, for instance, ask peoples views on Bill Clinton, and you get two extremes, which one is correct? Probably neither.


KFC pOSTS:
you've got history mixed up with opinion. History is History. Opinion is Opinion.


Again you're asking for viewpoint. That's not history. That's opinion. History is Clinton committing adultery. Did it happen or not? That's history.

Opinion is, he was/wasn't that bad as a president. There is a definite line drawn between opinion and history.


KFC, you've hit the nail on the head.

Same thing goes for religion....lots of "unstable" opinions out there!   





on Jan 14, 2008
Bryan Harstad posts #37
Most of the modern versions of religion are less then 1000 years old. Even the catholic church is less then 1500, which is the bases of all christian religions. In the last 250 years how many religions have been invented in the united states alone?


On what basis do you make the assertion that the CC is less than 1500 years old?

In reply #65 I described the beginnings of the CC. It was called 'the Church' in contradistinction to the Synagague. Scripture informs us that Christ established a Church and that it was and still is a catholic church in the sense of being universal. It was established to teach all nations all that Christ commanded to be taught during all time, until the end of the world.

According to historic truth, only the Catholic Church fits this description and can make this claim...the Catholic Church is a God made society and not a man-made one as are all the others to which you allude to.

Christ created His Church with Himself as the Head and the Holy SPirit indwelling as her soul. It is a real body though spiritual in her nature. The Church differs from all the rest in that she is indestructible for the destruction of the Mystical Body of Christ would be the destruction of Christ and the Holy Spirit something that is impossible. To this and this alone can be attributed the indefectibility, the perpetuity of the CC and the inability of the gates of Hell to prevail against her during her 2000 years of existence.

Yet the Church of Christ's direct making is an organization as well.
An organization in the sense of being made up of parts, priests, laity, Sacrifice, Sacraments, teaching, administrative, under hierarchial direction ever since St.Peter, our first Pope and now down through continuous unbroken succession--the 265th in Pope Benedict XVI.

The Church is a society Divine in origin supernatural in its end and means, yet consists of human members, all sinners.

The human part of the Mystical Body of Christ was started like a corporation with 12 men as its 'board of directors' who extended and expanded its priestly and lay membership as well as the territory in which it operated. They didn't make the Chruch nor could the they unmake her as they could were the CC a mere organization like the thousands of Protestant Churches.




on Jan 14, 2008
Is the blogger known as Wallace Stevens your son?


Who's Wallace Stevens and what does this have to do with the subject at hand?

Do you have a quote from him?

Well, the organized Chruch of the day was definitely the Catholic Church. The CC is the history behind the Bible so it was most definitely on the same page.


It couldn't have been Lula. The church said the world was flat and the bible said it was a circle. So therefore, they were not on the same page. Columbus knew this.

In fact heaven and hell don't exist to a jewish person, that is a new testiment creation.


Really? So when David's child died after his sin with Bathsheba what did he mean when he said "He shall not come to me but I will go to him?" David most certainly believed in the afterlife. Have you ever read it? David's actions after the death of his child certainly demonstrated he believed in eternity.

How about all the OT scripture that mentions after a death that so and so was "gathered to his people?" What does that mean? Where did Enoch and Elijah go when they went up into the heavens? What about the scripture that says "heaven is my throne and earth is my footstool?"

You may want to read the OT. IT's filled with references to both Heaven and Sheol (hell). If I had more time, I'd list them all right now but I don't. Maybe later.

The morman church, added their version of there god.


Yes they did. The JW's even have their own version of the bible (NWV) so does that make the historic scriptures null and void because of this? No. I can sit down right now and write myself up a bunch of scriptures, call it a bible and sell it.....doesn't negate the original scriptures one iota. These others are imitations, fakes and it doesn't change the originals at all.

Look at what has changed in 2000 years, what is going to happen in the next 2000?


Yes, man changed....not the scriptures. There's a warning at the end of the book of REvelation not to add or take away from the original scriptures. Let's just say many, many, many have done both add and take away. They can deal with God. But none of this has any bearing on the original writings. They still are here and they still are inspired. I don't think we are going to be around another 2000 years. But that's another subject.

Same thing goes for religion....lots of "unstable" opinions out there!


yep, sure got that right sista!!!





on Jan 14, 2008
Sodaiho posts:
Actually, I disagree with the created universe position of both Christianity and Judaism. As challenging a thought as it might be, the universe, in my opinion, has no beginning and no end.


So Daiho, on what do you base your opinion that the universe has no beginning and no end?

The universe outside of earth is hostile to life. Within our knowledge there is no hospitable place in space only a universe at enemity with life with the exception of Earth.

It just doesn't make any sense to me, is illogical to exclude anything Supernatural when understanding our origins. Yes, granted the universe is inexplicable. It's a mystery and even though there has been theory after theory, scientists cannot explain it for we still have no real understanding of matter's other self namely, energy or light and gravity. It's like trying to explain the watch without the watchmaker.

I believe that the universe was created as a pure act of God. That too is an unfathomable mystery that I believe by pure faith.
on Jan 14, 2008
good stuff Lula.

on Jan 14, 2008
Lula posts:
Well, the organized Chruch of the day was definitely the Catholic Church. The CC is the history behind the Bible so it was most definitely on the same page.


It couldn't have been Lula. The church said the world was flat and the bible said it was a circle. So therefore, they were not on the same page.


I never heard this before. When, where and who in the Church ever stated the world was flat?



on Jan 15, 2008
On what basis do you make the assertion that the CC is less than 1500 years old?


Look up catholisism on wikipedia.com (under history)

In fact you might want to check out your version of god.
on Jan 15, 2008
So Daiho, on what do you base your opinion that the universe has no beginning and no end?


On reality itself. A close examination of everything reveals everything is interconnected. X causes Y; Y causes C; etc., thru infinity. First Cause arguments require a suspension of causal linkages and suggest a total nothing prior to First Cause. If you say God was First Cause, then I ask what was prior to God?

on Jan 15, 2008
So Daiho, on what do you base your opinion that the universe has no beginning and no end?


On reality itself. A close examination of everything reveals everything is interconnected. X causes Y; Y causes C; etc., thru infinity.


How do you explain where life comes from?

If you say God was First Cause, then I ask what was prior to God?


It's God Who has no beginning and no end. The universe (what I call the cosmos) is part of God's Creation.

Right reasoning asserts that every effect has a cause. All effects relate back to a primordial cause. Fire, mist, Time, energy, Matter, humankind or a tree all are effects of one first cause.

The cosmos presupposes a cause, a Being necessarily outside the thing produced. All creation stands in ultimate contrast to the cause of its production. One produced; the other unproduced. This uncreated cause this Being having no cause, no beginning---Christians name God.

The Eternal Creator is necessarily sovereign Lord and Master over all created beings. Since no thing possesses a quality not found in its cause, the supreme qualities in nature are in a way a manifestation of the qualities of the Creator of nature. Nature evidences the expression, expansion and extension of Creation. Order, harmony, and beauty in nature evidences design, intention, and intelligence of God.

"The Heavens show forth the glory of God and the firmament declareth the work of His hands" Psalm 18:1.



on Jan 15, 2008
KFC POSTS:
the bible has NOT been proven unreliable in any area of science, history, archeology etc.


Kingbee posts: #15
nor has it been proven reliable in many areas of science, history, archeology, etc.

what proof is available--factual proof supported by physical evidence--of the exodus? of noah's flood? of the simultaneous creation of all animal life?


As far as science and Noah's Flood, I'll start by saying that I believe the teachings of Christ about the enormous Flood that destroyed all except those in the Ark only some thousands of years ago. St.Matt. 24: 37-39; St. Luke 17: 26-27. It is certainly within God's power to create the Cosmos and everything in it some 6,000 years ago and to have caused a global flood to occur.

Field evidence suggests a record of violent upheaval and of death and destruction rather than evidence of billions of years of Evolution progress.


Danielost posts:
what proof---factual proof is there that doesn't not support this theory.


Kingbee, Danielost asks an important and relevant question. Please tell us where does Evolution now stand in the spectrum of scientific truth? If Evolution occurred, there should be plenty in the fossil record that provide ample evidence of transitional forms (intermediate stages) of different creatures that would demonstrate how they evolved through the many stages...invertebrates to fish, fish to amphibians, amphibians to reptiles, reptiles to mammals, some of the mammals to primates, primitive primates into apes, and a common progenitor of ape and man evolved into human beings.

Millions of fossils have been discovered enough to provide a thorough analysis of the fossil record. But the buried evidence points against Evolution explanation. Three quarters of the Earth's land has a huge amount of sedimentary (water-borne) rock strata covering it ranging in depth down to an enormous 10,000 meters deep.
The forces involved must have been truly immense to have moved this colossol amount of sediment and dispersed all over the earth.

This couldn't have come about in such vast quantities through slow, slow uniformitarian processes. Fossilized trees have been found all over the world standing straight up through various strata deposits showing evidence of having been uprooted and washed into position. The trees must have been buried rapidly to avoid decay and provide the mineral necessary for them to be uniformly fossilized. The strata must have formed around them in less time than it takes to rot, not over eons of time.

Same thing with animals. The fossil evidence show huge death pits and consistent with sudden burial..of animals frozen in mid motion overcome by violent flood and wind.






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