Is It Possible or Impossible?
Published on October 23, 2006 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Religion
One of the most frequent arguments leveled against the infallibility of the Bible is based upon the fact that the Bible was written by human authors. Human beings are fallible. Since the Bible was written by these fallible human beings, it necessarily follows that the Bible is fallible. Or so the argument goes. As Roman Catholic theologian Bruce Vawter writes, "A human literature containing no error would indeed be a contradiction in terms, since nothing is more human than to err."

Although we often hear this accusation, it just is not correct. We grant that human beings do make mistakes, and that they make them often. But they do not necessarily make mistakes in all cases, and they do not necessarily have to make mistakes.

For example, several years ago one of the authors was teaching a class oon the reliability of the Bible. For it, he had typed up a one page outline of the course. The finished product was inerrant; it had no typographical errors, no mistakes in copying from the hand-written original. Although the author was human and was prone to make mistakes, he was in fact infallible in this instance.

The point is this: It is not impossible for a human being to perform a mistake free act. It is not impossible for fallible man to correctly record both sayings and events. Thus to rule out the possibility of an inerrant Bible by appealing to the fallibility of men does not hold up.

John Warwick Montgomery, lawyer/theologian, illustrates this truth:


The directions for operating my washing machine for example are literally infallible; if I do just what they say, the machine will respond. Euclid's Geometry is a book of perfect internal consistency; grant the axioms and the proofs follow inexorably. From such examples (and they readily be multiplied) we must conclude that human beings, though they often err, need not err in all particular instances.



To be sure, the production over centuries of sixty-six inerrant and mutually consistent books by different authors is a tall order-and we cheerfully appeal to God's Spirit to achieve it-but the point remains that there is nothing metaphysically inhuman or against human nature in such a possibility. If there were, have we considered the implications for Christology? The incarnate Christ, as a real man, would also have had to err; and we have already seen that error in His teachings would totally negate the revelational value of the incarnation, leaving man as much in the dark as to the meaning of life and salvation as if no incarnation had occurred at all (God's Inerrant Word, pg33
)

We also believe that there is sufficient evidence that the Bible is the infallible Word of God. The Scriptures themselves testify, "All Scripture is God-breathed." If they contain error, then one must call it God-inspired error. This is totally incompatible with the nature of God as revealed in the Bible. For example, Titus 1:2 says God cannot lie. John 17:17 says "Thy word is truth."

Examples could be multiplied. The testimony of Scripture is clear. God used fallible men to receive and record His infallible Word so that it would reach us, correct and without error. Sounds difficult? With our God it's not. As he said, "Behold I am the Lord, the God of all flesh; is anything too difficult for Me?"

Josh McDowell
"Reasons Skeptics Should Consider Christianity"

Comments (Page 5)
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on Nov 05, 2006
If it were up to fallible men to make the decision where to use which, can the Bible be infallible? Do they know the mind of God that well? Does anyone? I doubt it.


Yes, but only in the ORIGINAL language in which it was written. We CAN know the "revealed" mind of God. But do we know the mind of God as a whole? NO. Our finite minds cannot comprehend Him this side of eternity.

That's why he's given us His written word; to give us a glimpse into his holiness, his love for mankind, his desires, his mercy, and his wishes for us. He's given us a way out. That way, we can NEVER say....."we didn't know."

on Nov 05, 2006
I'll just point out that KFC didn't even address the question that she quoted in reply #60. She just diverted yet again to semantics. Even the argument there ignores the reality of language and culture, and the fact that she can't say in any way what a person 2000 years ago really meant.
on Nov 05, 2006

On Sunday, I stay away from engaging in controversy. And so, all of those "get out the vote" emails will wait until tomorrow. I read this commmentary from St. Francis of Sales and thought immediately of this discussion. I hope this is helpful to show the interplay and inter-relationship between charity and love in the Biblical sense and then putting that into our daily use.


Francis of Sales (1567-1622), Bishop in Geneva and doctor of the Church
Treatise on the Love of God, 10:11

Loving God produces the love of our neighbour

As God created man to his own image and likeness (Gn 1:26), so did he appoint for man a love after the image and resemblance of the love which is due to his own divinity. He said: "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart; this is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Why do we love God? "The cause for which we love God," says S. Bernard, "is God Himself;" as though he had said: we love God because he is the most sovereign and infinite goodness. And why do we love ourselves in charity? Surely because we are the image and likeness of God; and whereas all men are endowed with the same dignity, we love them also as ourselves, that is, as being holy and living images of the divinity.

For it is on that account… that he makes no difficulty to call himself our father, and to call us his children; it is on that account that we are capable of being united to his divine essence by the fruition of his sovereign goodness and felicity; it is on that account that we receive his grace, that our spirits are associated to his most Holy Spirit, and made in a manner participant of his divine nature (2P 1:4)... And therefore the same charity which produces the acts of the love of God produces at the same time those of the love of our neighbour. And even as Jacob saw that one same ladder touched heaven and earth, serving the angels both for descending and ascending (Gn 28:12), so we know that one same charity extends itself to both the love of God and our neighbour.

Charity is a virtue from which both Christian love of God and love of neighbor flows. Another way to say it is---charity is two loves: of God and of neighbor. In the NT, these loves cannot be separated. "And this commandment we have from God, that he, who loveth God, love also his brother." 1St.John 4:21. Anyone who separates these 2 loves is bound to fail. If any man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar." 1St. John 4:20. And the other way around, loving the brother but not paying attention to God in prayer and worship results in failure as well.

Human love is not merely emotional. (if it is --then, we could say this is one horizonal dimension and usually this doesn't last. When frustrations undo our best efforts to love others, love of God is necessary to keep going. We could say this the 2nd or vertical dimension. When love is elevated from the mere human level to the sacred, namely, Christian love, is called charity. The insight that guides charity is faith........but that is a whole other discussion.

Bakerstreet, I quoted these 2 verses from Douay Rheims. you might want to compare them with your Bible. Most likely they will vary to some degree. Do you get the same understanding from reading both translations?
on Nov 05, 2006
Bakerstreet says:
Then why use that word? If God had directed the creation of an inerrant book over the course of thousands of years, doesn't it seem strange that He wouldn't have directed clear language that anyone would understand without a concordance?

God did direct the creation of the Bible and He did see that it was translated into different languages through His instrument, the Holy Catholic Church. From the beginning, the magisterium of the CC has exercised its God -given authority to discern which books belong to the Bible and how they are correctly interpretated in the light of Sacred Tradition. As you and KFC know by now, Catholics view the Bible, the Church and Tradition as harmonious pieces of a whole. St. Timothy3:15 writes that the Church is "the pillar and foundation of truth".

Once the Church councils at Hippo (393) and Carthage 397 and 419, listed the 73 books as Sacred Scripture, (and confirmed by the council of Trent in the 16th century), she set about having St. Jerome translate them word for word into Latin which was the common language at the time in 405. Both KFC and I have talked about his qualifications. What is most important concerning the translation of the original Hebrew and Greek is that St. Jerome had far more texts of the original language versions to work with than scholars have today. He had many texts that simply no longer exist today. He was 1600 years closer to the original languages than modern scholars. He was fluent in Greek, Hebrew and Latin. This is very important regarding the meanings of the words used by the original biblical writers. His translation is called the Latin Vulgate and was widely endorsed by the universal Church and used up until 1610.
The Vulgate was proclaimed "authentic" by The Council of Trent in 1546.

In 1610, the original English version taken from the Latin Vulgate produced the Douay Rheims Bible. It is the version that has been used by Catholics since. In 1943, Pope Pius XII declared that the DR is "free from any error whatsoever in matters of faith and morals." That means it's an infallible version of the original.

So my advice to you is get yourself a Douay Rheims if you are concerned with errors in translation. It can't hurt.
on Nov 06, 2006

Human love is not merely emotional. (if it is --then, we could say this is one horizonal dimension and usually this doesn't last. When frustrations undo our best efforts to love others, love of God is necessary to keep going. We could say this the 2nd or vertical dimension. When love is elevated from the mere human level to the sacred, namely, Christian love, is called charity. The insight that guides charity is faith........but that is a whole other discussion


Lula, this is exactly what I've been trying to tell Baker. Charity, is love in Action. Christ is a great example of this when he died on the cross. That was charity. That was Agape. that was LOVE. The Good Samaritan. That also was Love in Action. That was Charity. That was Love.

Baker,

It's not that I didn't address it. I didn't give YOU the answer YOU want. I just chalk it up to another unwanted answer by YOU.

on Nov 06, 2006
No, you didn't address the fact that if God can somehow control the creation of a book for thousands of years, why suddenly is He out of control? Shouldn't one of these be the "right" one?

Explain if you can why God would leave his Word moldering and flaking away as 2000 year old manuscripts after fostering it as you describe for thousands of years previous. If you are right, and he wanted a supernatural, inerrant document, why didn't He see to it that it came together as such? You admit that the modern translations aren't inerrant, did He just stop caring?
on Nov 06, 2006
P.S. I find it insane that KFC and Lulabelle would try and put on a united front. One believes the Catholic church to be the great whore of Babylon, the other believes the Catholic Church to be the only true church. Don't you guys feel a tad like hypocrites for nodding to one another like this, all the while believing that the other's soul is in dire jeopardy?
on Nov 06, 2006
No, you didn't address the fact that if God can somehow control the creation of a book for thousands of years, why suddenly is He out of control? Shouldn't one of these be the "right" one?


I don't think he's out of control, you do. That's the conclusion YOU have come up with. Not me. The Gk text has NOT changed one iota. Has it?

If you are right, and he wanted a supernatural, inerrant document, why didn't He see to it that it came together as such?


He did. What don't you understand Baker? How many times have I said it's supernatural and inerrant in it's original texts that we still have today. Is it because it's not translated into another language inerrantly that bothers you so? Well be assured those translated texts are as close as you can to being inerrant if they are true to the original as best as they can be.

P.S. I find it insane that KFC and Lulabelle would try and put on a united front.


I would say Lula and I are united in the ESSENTIALS. That's what's most important.

Essentials-Unity
Non Essentials-Liberty
All Things-Love

Don't you guys feel a tad like hypocrites for nodding to one another like this, all the while believing that the other's soul is in dire jeopardy?


I don't think we feel that way. It's not about religion but about relationship. If we are united in Christ, it doesn't matter what denomination we belong to. If anything I may think she's the weaker sister for believing in the CC's role and she may say that I'm the weaker sister in that I don't believe it.

on Nov 06, 2006
P.S. I find it insane that KFC and Lulabelle would try and put on a united front. One believes the Catholic church to be the great whore of Babylon, the other believes the Catholic Church to be the only true church. Don't you guys feel a tad like hypocrites for nodding to one another like this, all the while believing that the other's soul is in dire jeopardy?


here we find common ground baker...it looks like we've been getting the religious zealot's version of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"

lulabelle also challenges people to "disprove" her AS IF anything she has presented has been anything more than parroting of "faith based" doctrine, none of which can be proven in the 1st place. and most of which is just memorization of the b.s. that the church has been selectively teaching for centuries.
on Nov 06, 2006
"He did. What don't you understand Baker? How many times have I said it's supernatural and inerrant in it's original texts that we still have today. Is it because it's not translated into another language inerrantly that bothers you so? Well be assured those translated texts are as close as you can to being inerrant if they are true to the original as best as they can be."


You speak Koine Greek? You have the original texts in the original hand? Name them. Where are these manuscripts?

Again, you've dodged the question. If God made sure He got His inerrant word on paper, why did He stop making sure it stayed inerrant? Why do we get errant translations if God wished us to have the inerrant word? If a loose translation was good enough, why did the original even need to be inerrant?

Why was it left up to men to decide what was canon? Why didn't God make sure that the original texts, from the original authors, in their original hand were preserved? Why all this second hand work when he just could have dictated it to someone the way he did to Moses?

Why would an all-powerful God rely on men to write, translate, re-translate, choose, copy, bind, and sell-for-profit His Word? When was the first time, would you say, that the Hopi, or the Aleuts, or the Zulu hear the unadulterated, true Word? Were they hearing the truth from the Catholic Church?, or did these cultures have to wait hundreds of more years to hear the real truth?

What an awful thing you make of God.
on Nov 06, 2006
Bakerstreet and SConn1 ---Reading the whole of Proverbs 9 would do you good. Verse 10: The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; and the knowledge of the holy is prudence.

Christ's Peace,
on Nov 06, 2006
I've read proverbs many, many more times than once. MAYBE, just maybe as much as you, you think? I fear the Lord just fine, but I don't believe in the holiness of anything created by men. How do you feel about idolatry?

You guys are the one posing God as a monstrous thing, not me. I don't believe your description of things.
on Nov 06, 2006
If you are right, and he wanted a supernatural, inerrant document, why didn't He see to it that it came together as such?


He did, it's called the Book of Mormon.
on Nov 06, 2006
Bakerstreet: How do you interpret Proverbs 9:10?

on Nov 06, 2006
"Bakerstreet and SConn1 ---Reading the whole of Proverbs 9 would do you good. Verse 10: The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; and the knowledge of the holy is prudence.

Christ's Peace,"


It sickens me to the core when people like Lulabelle blaspheme God by claiming that questioning their religion is questioning God. I fear God, I just don't fear you or KFC.

As I've said elsewhere Creationists Promote Their Own Inerrancy. That's what churches, and churchy people do, they try and speak with the mouth of God, and make idolaters of their congregation.
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