Heh.

I'll dare to post something.

What, though?

This anecdote is food for thought, sure enough.

One of the things I'm thinking is, "why hasn't anybody jumped in with arguments about how Christians run around preaching--and perpetrating--violence and murder?"

And I'm also thinking, "why hasn't anybody jumped in with arguments about how one Imam does not a consensus make?"

And of course I'm thinking, "damn, that was some good chili!"

And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven

KFC, don’t you think we can afford a bit more breathing space from our Holy Scriptures than this? There’s a lot more to the Qur’an than you are portraying, and there are many, many verses that teach a message of compassion, forgiveness and a direct command not to cause harm to non-believers. (Surah 2.109; 7.199; 39.53; 42.43, for example).

If we run through our Holy Scriptures with a fine tooth comb, we’ll find moral contradictions in all our Holy Books – the Bible included. We’ll also perpetuate feelings of friction, intolerance and misunderstanding between people of faith.

Unfortunately, as long as we don’t allow ourselves any breathing space from scriptural fundamentalism, we’d have to conclude that the Christian God is a lot worse than Hitler, morally speaking. Not only are we taught that all non-Christians will perish in hellfire forever, for not accepting Jesus as Lord, but we are also taught that God chooses who becomes a Christian and who doesn’t. It’s not our choice to become a Christian in the first place – it’s God’s - according to St. Paul’s letter to the Ephesians.

(I personally agree that we have no choice in the matter, incidentally. If you speak to most non-Christians over the age of about 30, they’ll tell you that Christianity simply isn’t their cup of tea. They’re not that way inclined, and are often a lot happier adhering to a secular point of view, or to a Buddhist one, or whatever else. Yet the belief that all non-Christians will be punished in hellfire is wholly misguided, in my view. Furthermore, it’s no secret that the religion we feel inclined to follow primarily depends on where we’re born.)

Regarding the Hitler comparison, it is true that Hitler took a certain type of people, and threw them into the ovens to face torture and death. This is exactly how the Christian God acts, according to extreme scriptural fundamentalism. The difference is that God throws a certain type of people into the ovens to experience torture and pain in hellfire for ever and ever – world without end. Is this the kind of God that we have come to know and love in our hearts?

Extreme scriptural fundamentalism suppresses the spirit of love and understanding, in my view, and I think it's time we grew out of it.

I usually take those inbox-stuffing forwards with a grain of salt, but----

Let's remember the Crusades; the Pope DID encourage Christians at the time to murder Muslims. But then, that was a much different world.

And I'm also thinking, "why hasn't anybody jumped in with arguments about how one Imam does not a consensus make?"

---stutefish

One Imam may not a consensus make, but the nightly news sure does seem to indicate that such a consensus is there to be had. in case you've missed it, lots of----too many---Muslim "clerics" are calling for violent death to Christians and Jews, and have been for years. According to Mohammed, they're supposed to kill you if you won't convert.

I'll take Jesus. His way takes a little less work.

The Bible is centuries older than the Koran, thus proving its' superiority.

KFC, I find many problems with this article and your analysis. First off, what type of Muslim was this? Sunni, Shia, or Sufi? Shias, a minority of Muslims, have their Imam, an infallible spiritual leader, who is believed to have supernatural powers, and is divine. From the way Imam is capitalized, I believe the author was referring to a Shia Imam. Which is highly unlikely, because I believe the only Imam in existence is the Imam in Iran, and he hates the rest of the world and would not teach any infidels. Sunni muslims are the majority of Muslims, and their imams are spiritual leaders who are not infallible, so just because the author POSSIBLY had this conversation and made on imam hang his head, does not mean anything.And it most likely wasn;t a Sufi, because they are mystics and are sweet.

So, if this event actually happened, of which I am skeptical, it in no means says that Muslims are wrong. I have some Muslim friends as a Catholic, and I have talked about Islam. As AndyBaker said, there are some contradictory points in the Qu'ran, and some say to Honor Christians and Jews for their Holiness, or something to that effect. The majority of Muslims subscribe to this belief, and only very few, mainly Shiites and Islamicists, actually attack and perform this "Holy War". Many Muslims believe that Jihad is mainly an inner struggle for holiness, as the word Jihad means "struggle."

As a Catholic, I would like to clarify one point about Rightwingers reply, mainly because it applies to this topic very much. The Pope was not declared infallible until long after the Crusades, once again showing that not all religious leaders ideas are the representation of the religion. That is a very fine line KFC.

I'm afraid that your title question harbors a great misunderstanding. "Allah" and "Jesus" are not analogous. Indeed, Muhammed and Jesus aren't analogous, either. Indeed, Muslims believe that the Holy Qu'ran itself is God's true manifestation on Earth, much as Christians believe that Jesus Christ was YHWH's manifestation on Earth. You would be better served to ask the question "Arabic God" or "Judeo-Christian God," although the Qu'ran makes it pretty clear that "Allah" is the same thing as "YHWH."

Indeed, it is not surprising that the Judeo-Christo-Islamic religions have given us a legacy of war and suffering, seeing as YHWH was originally given the title S'baoth, making his name mean "YHWH of the spears." In his earliest worshipped form, YHWH was a war god, a god to be called upon during times of battle. It is only later that he supplants the other gods of the Canaanite pantheon to encompass all aspects of life. You and Mr. Mathes misundertand history, and so you misunderstand the deity you worship.

But as for the question itself, I vote: none of the above.

Cheers.

The Bible is centuries older than the Koran, thus proving its' superiority.

I see your banishment is over.  Try to write more than one line zingers as most here do not know you from before.  This response is a non-sequitar.

As a Catholic, I would like to clarify one point about Rightwingers reply, mainly because it applies to this topic very much. The Pope was not declared infallible until long after the Crusades, once again showing that not all religious leaders ideas are the representation of the religion. That is a very fine line KFC.

The pope was never declared infallible.  It is only when he speaks Ex-cathedra (for the Church) on matters that are not controversial that he is considered infallible.  Since the middle ages, he has done that twice.

The pope was never declared infallible. It is only when he speaks Ex-cathedra (for the Church) on matters that are not controversial that he is considered infallible. Since the middle ages, he has done that twice.

That is correct, I mispoke. He is only infallible when he writes dogma.

First, while this is a great anecdote.

I don't believe it happened for a minute.

No one can be so stupid they walk into a trap like that!

I don't believe it happened for a minute

It's a sppof.  A fake.  A lie. It NEVER happened. 

I went to Snopes and checked it out....the verified that it NEVER did happen. 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp

Most of these forwarded emails that involve the christian right proving some poor liberal or foreigner or person of a different faith wrong for their beliefs or shaming them for their hypocrisy are fake.  Every so often you'll get one that's true, but it's rare.  People just can't seem to resist embellishing them - it's like that chinese whispers game you played in school where one person whispered a word into the person next to them's ear, and then that person whispers to the nest person in line, and so on and so on....until you get to the last person who has to say aloud the word they had whispered to them.  What started out as 'coffee' ends up as 'halibut' or something equally as ridiculous.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but this is just a nice story.  Nothing more.  A bit like most of bible really, huh? 

 

Sorry to rain on your parade, but this is just a nice story

Never claimed it as any more than that. Just thought it was thought provoking, and I believe, trueor not (I'll check into it) does have a ring of truth to it. I have yet to hear of any Muslim Cleric denouncing their people's violence. In fact just the opposite, they seem to be encouraging it.

Try to write more than one line zingers as most here do not know you from before

That would be me..........

KFC, don’t you think we can afford a bit more breathing space from our Holy Scriptures than this?

Com'on Andy you have to get some different lines. I get it. Really I do. I just don't agree. But that's ok....we're still friends, right?

One of the things I'm thinking is, "why hasn't anybody jumped in with arguments about how Christians run around preaching--and perpetrating--violence and murder?"

Oh and this? I'd really have to know who you mean here. If a so called Christian is preaching violence and murder.....I'd have to question who he really belonged to.

A tree is known by it's fruit.

It's a sppof. A fake. A lie. It NEVER happened.

Didn't I say this? No one seemed to consider all the doubts that my points raised, but whatever. I figured it was contrived.

and I believe, trueor not (I'll check into it) does have a ring of truth to it.

Man, you truly are a christian. You're willing to reputable, researched proof given to you by someone else (and I'm not claiming to have researched it, Snopes did that) and cling to the belief that this is true in the face of all facts showing just the opposite - just because you WANT it to be true. Snopes asked the person who gave the quote if it was true, and he said it was to the best of his memory. They went and asked eyewitnesses, people who were THERE, at the event - and a few of them denied that anything had ever happened. The only 'ring' of truth about this is the one you WANT to be there.

But you believe whatever it is you need to believe to make it through the day.