Some Think So
Published on November 16, 2009 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Current Events

Much has been in the news lately about the Balloon Boy and the antics of his father playing a hoax on the world all for his own glory.  Hoaxes have been around as long as man has.  Lately in the news also has been what could be a very old hoax recently debunked.   You be the judge.  What do you think? 

I grew up hearing about the supposed miracle surrounding the Shroud of Turin.  I had no idea at the time, as a child, that it had Roman Catholic origin to it.  I just knew it seemed pretty awesome to have what they believed to be the burial cloth of Jesus still around today.  The politics behind it totally escaped me. 

As I grew older and I think wiser, being the skeptic that I am now about such things I decided to not have an opinion one way or another about this shroud.  Many jump on the Sensation bandwagon easily enough, believing what they wish to believe and I'm not like that.  It has to be logical and  factual for me to hang onto it.  I don't go for easy beliefism.   Sensationalism sells.  We know that. 

I know my Catholic friends think this Shroud of Turin is sacred because they have been told it is and that settles it for them.  It has been revered for centuries as the cloth that covered Jesus in the tomb. 

Recently an Italian group has come out saying the Turin is a forgery.  They claim this relic is manmade.  One of the reasons for their claim is the fact they have reproduced it easily enough. 

Scientists have recently reproduced the shroud using materials and methods that were available in the 14th century and is further evidence that this shroud is a medieval forgery.  In 1988 scientists used radiocarbon dating to determine this shroud was made in the 13th or 14th century. 

So how did they reproduce it? 

A Professor of chemistry related in an interview that his team used a linen woven with the same technique as the shroud and artifically aged it by heating it in an oven and washing it with water.  They then placed this cloth on a student who wore a mask to reproduce the face and rubbed it with red ochre, a well known pigment at the time.  The entire process took a week. 

The original shroud was first recorded in history in 1360 in the hands of a French knight.  This would have been more than 13 centuries after the death of Christ and one of the reasons why some are skeptical of its authencity. 

This shroud, of course, was owned by the Vatican and is kept locked in a special chamber and is rarely shown.  The last public display was in 2000 with the next expected showing to be next year. 

Could this be a hoax afterall these years finally debunked?   Some think so. 


Comments
on Nov 16, 2009

People believe in all that they wish to believe in. There is an old saying (believe in the stone but believe), The shroud of Turin is ofcourse sacred to us Roman Catholics and Christians all over the world. We don't have to stick our finger deep in the wound to believe someone is hurt! What els new thechnologies nonesense will like to dismiss from the past? what about changing the face of history? some people have been trying to do so for years but the truth can never be defaced! wait till the snow melt and you will see the earth...(F.B.D. Delta Force UK.)

on Nov 16, 2009

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not much into relic worship. Even if it actually draped the body of Christ, it's just an object. The Holy Grail, Arc of the Covenant, and the Spear of Destiny... all great stories, but little evidence that some magic properties are somehow imparted on them. Is this phenomenon really any different from a signed baseball, an autograph, or jersey? Or your great grandfathers watch passed down to you? I think not. Many folks believe objects that were owned or used by people of fame, brings them closer to that person somehow. Is that bad? No, but IMO it can be taken too far and can become an unhealthy passion. Think about it. If Jesus wanted to leave behind holy keepsakes, he would have blessed a few loads of key chains and passed them out, not his death shroud.

on Nov 16, 2009

I'm with you Nitro.  All this relic worship just takes our eyes off the real person we are supposed to be worshipping.  I think it goes back to people needing somthing to see to follow or worship. 

I remember one teen girl from Europe who was visiting our church, and was brought up in the Eastern Orthodox Church whispering to her friend who was also from the same country "how can they worship without icons?"   We only had a simple cross on the wall and nothing else.  The other girl whispered back, they pray by faith, they don't need icons to pray to. 

That pretty much sums it up for me as well. 

I'm just wondering but.....I'm wondering if it cost money to go and see this Shroud of Turin whe they pull it out again next year?  I mean is money being made on this? 

 

on Nov 16, 2009

I'm just wondering but.....I'm wondering if it cost money to go and see this Shroud of Turin whe they pull it out again next year? I mean is money being made on this?

I don't believe so. I also don't believe many will get to see it for those that wish too. IMO the Vatican should open a museum. They have plenty of beautiful artifacts squirreled away, never to see the light of day. If they ever do make money off of these things... I might have a chicken bone from the last supper I'd be willing to part with $$$$! It's magical properties make it appear fresh and that it was just recently gnawed on!

on Nov 16, 2009

It seems as though the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin will always be debated. As far its age, I thought they found some pollen in it that dates it to the time of Christ.  

I know my Catholic friends think this Shroud of Turin is sacred because they have been told it is and that settles it for them.

I'm Catholic and have never ever been told that the Shroud is sacred. I also don't know any Catholics who think of it as "sacred".

  

Recently an Italian group has come out saying the Turin is a forgery.

What is the source of your article and who is this Italian group? If you are referring to a guy named Garlashelli who "reproduced" the Shroud...... that's old news.

Here's a cut and paste from the Internet on that...

More Responses To Garlaschelli Claims

As most of you know, on October 6, 2009 the news broke around the world that an Italian researcher, Professor Luigi Garlaschelli, had "reproduced" the Shroud image using medieval techniques, thus proving it was a 14th century fake. The outcry was immediate and enormous, prompting thousands of e-mails, letters and phone calls.

I originally planned to post this update on November 1, 2009, but delayed it for several days because Dr. Thibault Heimburger, French Shroud researcher (well known to regular website viewers), informed me that he was in direct contact with Professor Garlaschelli and would be writing a scientific article evaluating his claims in detail. Based on the quality of Thibault's previous contributions to this website and Professor Garlaschelli's cooperation, I was happy to postpone the update and wait for his paper. I am now pleased to include Thibault's latest article, Comments About the Recent Experiment of Professor Luigi Garlaschelli in this update. Thibault provides a detailed overview of Garlaschelli's techniques and a point by point comparison between Garlaschelli's results and the image on the Shroud. The article includes 12 color photomicrographs and illustrations. A special word of thanks to Thibault for working some very long hours to get this article to me so quickly.

Also included in this update is a link to an article by Bruno Barberis, Director of the International Centre of Sindonology in Turin, Italy. The article is titled, The Shroud "Make Over," Science or Marketing? and was originally published on October 9, 2009 on the Archdiocese of Turin website. It provides us with Bruno's expert perspective on Garlaschelli's recent claims.

I also want to extend a personal word of thanks to Alessandro, who operates a technically oriented Italian language blog on the Shroud, for making several excellent suggestions about archiving certain materials on www.shroud.com. Due to his suggestions, I have permanently archived my editorial response of October 7, 2009 along with the excellent response of Petrus Soons. As Alessandro correctly pointed out, this page is archived annually, but to a different link, making articles published on this page more difficult to find later. Not only are certain articles on this page now archived into separate files, they are also listed on the Website Library and Scientific Papers & Articles pages and can be found using the Website Search Engine. In fact, to make things even more convenient, here are links to a number of important recent articles addressing Professor Garlaschelli's claims:

kfc posts:

Scientists have recently reproduced the shroud using materials and methods that were available in the 14th century and is further evidence that this shroud is a medieval forgery. In 1988 scientists used radiocarbon dating to determine this shroud was made in the 13th or 14th century. So how did they reproduce it? A Professor of chemistry related in an interview that his team used a linen woven with the same technique as the shroud and artifically aged it by heating it in an oven and washing it with water. They then placed this cloth on a student who wore a mask to reproduce the face and rubbed it with red ochre, a well known pigment at the time. The entire process took a week.

According to this article below, the scientist's reproduction has been anything but conclusive to show the Shroud is a forgery.

http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/thibault-lg.pdf

 

nitro cruiser posts:

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not much into relic worship.

Relic worship? So, who is "worshipping" the Shroud?   

kfc posts:

I'm with you Nitro. All this relic worship just takes our eyes off the real person we are supposed to be worshipping.

Same question.

 

kfc posts:

I'm just wondering but.....I'm wondering if it cost money to go and see this Shroud of Turin whe they pull it out again next year? I mean is money being made on this?

Wonder no longer......

The 2010 Shroud Exhibition

Until June 2, 2008, the next public exhibition of the Shroud of Turin was scheduled to occur in Turin, Italy, in the year 2025, to coincide with the next Holy Year of the Catholic Church. This was decided upon and announced in the year 2000 by Pope John Paul II. However, on June 2, 2008, Pope Benedict XVI announced that the Archbishop of Turin had asked his permission to move the date up and that he had agreed. Consequently the next public exhibition would now take place 10 April 2010 through 23 May 2010.

Interestingly, the very next day, on June 3, 2008, the Turin authorities confirmed in a press release that the exhibition would take place in 2010 and further stated that its primary purpose would be to focus on pastoral issues and give pilgrims their first opportunity to view the Shroud since the controversial "restoration" of 2002 that altered the cloth's appearance considerably. They further announced that no scientific examination would be permitted and no experiments would be authorized during the 2010 exhibition.

Reservations will be required to obtain the tickets needed to attend the Shroud exhibition, although admission is free. Reservations can be made online at the Archdiocese of Turin Website at www.sindone.org I suggest you check their website (available in Italian and English) from time to time and make your reservations as soon as the system goes online. Here is a link to the English FAQ page of their site: www.sindone.org/FAQ-en.htm with the most up-to-date information. The Archdiocese stated that there would be an on-site reservation system available to those who were unable make their reservations online, but first priority would be given to disabled visitors and to religious groups. However, in my experience (which includes three previous exhibitions - 1978, 1998, 2000), no one who arrives at the Cathedral in Turin during a Shroud exhibition is ever turned away. Still, if you plan to see the Shroud in 2010, I urge you to make reservations for the dates you are in Turin as soon as the reservation system becomes available. Of course, I will post the information on the website as soon as I get it. . However, the reservation system will not be available until DECEMBER 2009.

The Vatican announced on October 27, 2009 that Pope Benedict XVI will come to Turin to visit the Shroud on May 2, 2010.

Visitors to Turin, where the Shroud has permanently resided since 1578, will view the cloth in the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist. To conserve and protect the Shroud, it is permanently stored in a custom built, temperature and humidity controlled, lightight case, which can be moved, raised and opened to display the cloth for public exhibitions. This case was built by the Italian aerospace company Alenia Spazio, which placed its high level technical know how (acquired in the field of space technologies) at the disposal of the Shroud. The case is built of a light, aeronautical alloy, apart from the upper surface which is made of bullet-proof, laminated glass, and it weighs about 1,000 kg. The Shroud is placed on a light aluminum support sliding on runners and stored flat within the case. Inside the airtight case there is a mixture of argon (99.5%) and oxygen (0.5%) in order to guarantee the perfect conservation of the Shroud and its protection from any form of aerobic and anaerobic bacteria. When the Shroud is not on public display, the case is closed and stored within an alcove of the Cathedral where visitors are permitted to pray and meditate.

This shroud, of course, was owned by the Vatican and is kept locked in a special chamber and is rarely shown. The last public display was in 2000 with the next expected showing to be next year.

Turns out the Shroud is neither owned nor kept at the Holy See in Rome but at the Cathedral in the Archdiocece of Turin where any visitiors may come and pray and meditate.

I remember one teen girl from Europe who was visiting our church, and was brought up in the Eastern Orthodox Church whispering to her friend who was also from the same country "how can they worship without icons?" We only had a simple cross on the wall and nothing else. The other girl whispered back, they pray by faith, they don't need icons to pray to.

That pretty much sums it up for me as well. I'm just wondering but.....I'm wondering if

I'm just wondering but...I'm wondering if Protestants will ever cease protesting against things Catholic.

 

  

 

 

on Nov 16, 2009

I thought a previous study of the shroud showed the 'pigment' was not red ochre.  I find the shroud mystery interesting from a scientific point of view.  If what you say is true, however, that a similar item has been 'reproduced,' it doesn't prove what the shroud is or how it was created one way or the other.  Just suggests that the technology to produce such an artifact may have been available in the 13th or 14th centuries.

on Nov 17, 2009

nitro cruiser posts:

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not much into relic worship.

Relic worship? So, who is "worshipping" the Shroud?

Lula, I was generalizing about all relics, religious and non-religious.  "Worship" may have been a strong word as not many can get close to this particular item, but rest assured if they could some would be swooning all over it, just because of the power it holds in their own mind. If Jesus took out a bag of trash 2000 years ago and mysteriously had his hand print on it, and it was discovered today,would people be interested or fainting before the "holy" trash? All I'm saying are folks are too mesmerized by famous people's belongings, past to present, a bit silly and gaudy if you ask me. I don't know if the shroud is real or fake, I'm not bothered to know really. It's an interesting story, so is bigfoot.

In your own post you say when this cloth is going to be hauled out again. If nobody is "worshiping" it then I guess the media circus is for the benefit of scientists and curious onlookers. Nobody will break into spontaneous prayer, faint, or weep. They'll just snap their bubble gum and and say OK what's next.

JMO 

on Nov 17, 2009

the biggest question in my mind is if this was authentic why wasn't it brought out before the 14th Century? 

That's more than 13 centuries after the death of Christ.  Why didn't the early church writers write about it?  Josephus who was a historian never wrote about this to the best of my knowledge. Why not? 

I always like to go to the source but in this case if it didn't show up until hundreds of years after the event it seems suspect to me, espcially during that time period when there was quite a bit of unrest or protest against the RCC. 

on Nov 17, 2009

If it comforts some, who am I to rain on their parade. It's just not for me genuine or fake.

on Nov 18, 2009

Jesus hasn't come back yet and it's hundreds of years later, so why couldn't a shroud be hidden away for awhile and then found?

Regardless, I don't know anything about it, nor do I really care.  It's like those commercials I hear on the radio that visiting Jerusalem will make the events I read about in the Bible seem more real.  Really?  Can't I watch a video about them instead?  Can I walk on the water there better than I can here?

I feel it's a lot more exciting and interesting that God left His word here, which supposedly cna work in your life to change you.  A shroud... is just a shroud.  But, 'shroud' is a fun word to say.