1 And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. 2 And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father's house. 3 Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul. 4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle. 

I don't know why you always associate homosexuality with ungodliness.

King David was gay. He was still one of the greatest kings the world has ever seen.

And yes, he did love Jonathan more than he loved women.

I don't think with all the things going on in the world today G-d will worry about a gay pride month. After all, never in history has homosexuality destroyed a society and societies that allowed homosexuality have always outperformed societies that didn't.

The state of Israel is now more powerful than it ever was in history. This has to do with G-d's favour, I am sure. But why he favours a secular country with legalised homosexuality over all the countries around it that see homosexuality like you do remains to be seen.

(Outside Israel only Jordan and Iraq have legalised homosexuality. Turkey legalised homosexuality in the mid-1800s. Can't say that Turkey is less powerful or successful than, say, Syria.)

Interesting, a gay, lesbian, etc Pride day. So why exactly do we need a Pride Day for? Where's my Man Day? or wheres Womans Day? You know not every man is a father, not every woman is a mother or secretary. Talk about unfairness. What about those men and women who are not parents, who don't have secretar jobs, who are stay husbands and wifes or sons and daughters. What about uncles and aunts day? This is not fair. What about Straight Pride day?

exactly.  I thought of that as well. 

WHERE IN THE WORLD DO YOU GET THAT KING DAVID WAS GAY?  You've got to be kidding.  David had wives not husbands.  Did you not remember his adultery with Bathsheba.  He saw her bathing on the roof and took her even tho she was married?  He greatly grieved over that sin and paid dearly for it by losing 4 sons as a result. 

 His relationship with Jonathan was NOT sexual.  A man can have a deep beautiful loving friendship with another man and it not be sexual.  My husband has a dear godly friend similar to what we read hear about Jonathan and David.  They pray together, trust each other completely  and they are best friends but they don't have sex with each other. 

Jonathan was considered royalty. The stripping of his Royal robe has huge significance of a Royal recognizing a man of God.  Here Jonathan (a prince in the royal court) forsake his Kingly physical Father for David knowing who David was.  The Messiah would come thru the line of David.  He understood the roles completely.  David, in the eyes of God, was the genuine Royalty, not Jonathan nor Saul. 

You may want to go back and read the Torah Leauki.  Men having sex with men is a very serious sin against God. 

Homosexuality destroys the ability of men to be really close friends.  You see it right there.  They were close, loved each other, and all Leauki thinks of is SEX.  It had nothing to do with sex.  Jesus loves me, he doesn't want to have sex with me.  We've forgotten that people can be close without sex.

Oh come on Charles, really? Let them celebrate, jesus. In fact, here....have your Man Day; Lets just forget about Birthday's, every day, and so on so forth.  

That's merely your opinion, not fact. I can refute it with the fact that I have six friends who are some of the closest friends I have, and they are gay. We've no issues what-so-ever. I would venture to say that it isn't homosexuality, but lack of comfort around due to ignorance and such, that can create what you claim.

But not Lesbians?

At least there can't be any unwanted pregnancies.

LOL, I don't mind a Gay Pride Day. It bugs me that it's done not because they deserve it but for political reasons. It's like making an ACORN Pride Day. Get my point? As a man, I think I deserve a day more than gay people do. As a man, I am responsible for making sure our race, the human race, lives on. Even in a Lesbian relationship a man is needed to conceive, even if not physically.

The same goes for women, without them humanity would not exist. We can call it mothers day or fathers day but what about those who are not parents? Don't they deserve a day to for contributing to the world? Why do gays get a day? It's not like they were slaves, not allowed to work or vote, had no freedoms. So a few laws were not in their favor, so a few people feel uncomfortable around them, so some religious people see them as siners. It's not like the life of a gay or lesbian has been as hard as Black peoples lives or even Latinos.

Give me a break. We should celebrate things worth wild like Independence Day, Mothers and Fathers Day, New Years, etc. Gay Pride day? Unless It's a paid holiday, i don't see the point except for a day for gays and lesbians to thumb their noses at those who opposed them. Sounds to me more like something that can cause seperation rather than unity. At least Black History Month celebrates the struggles from a race that really had it hard.

It really depends but I agree with you in a way. The problem is not what you think, it's what others think of you. Interesting how when it comes to gays you don't care what others think of you but when it comes to the rest of the world you care what they think of us. Interesting.

Hey, lets not jinx it will ya?

Indians.

As long as they aren't Jewish.

[quote]LOL, I don't mind a Gay Pride Day. It bugs me that it's done not because they deserve it but for political reasons. It's like making an ACORN Pride Day. Get my point? As a man, I think I deserve a day more than gay people do. As a man, I am responsible for making sure our race, the human race, lives on. Even in a Lesbian relationship a man is needed to conceive, even if not physically.[quote]

Who knows if it was for political reasons or not, Charles; although, I'm sure you're privy to what goes on deep inside Obama's mind. ;~P I will agree that it comes off as weird that the president declared it, but then again I guess it's no different than the various ____ Day's or ______ History month's. Frankly, people who want to celebrate will celebrate and everyone else will go about their daily business without so much as a harumph. Anyone who truly gives a shit about these days and causes some big ruckus over them is being petulant, in my opinion.

Like I said - have a Man day; I don't freaking care. Oh, and it's interesting that you say you don't mind it, yet you make comments that sound like you're annoyed by it. Intersting. ( )

So they don't get the same rights as a certain select group because of who they are? Hmm...yeah, not going there. Charles, bluntly, you're not in a positionto judge that -- you're not gay. I think you're being rather ignorant, frankly.

Yo Charles, we do celebrate them; where have you been?

You are just way too colored by the BS that is spewed, my friend. The only way that separation will happen is for those who wish it to be (pro or anti-homosexual), work toward it and the ignorant stay docile and apathetic. I'm suddenly reminded of the saying, "If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything." I see too many people falling for BS; it's unfortunate.

Eh, not really. I mean when you look at it: What constitutes the parts of a close bond? Knowledge, understanding, comfort, a connection, and/or a desire to hangout?

Mm, I am concerned of how others view me because of the need to present myself in various ways (e.g. as a profesional, student, etc.), but when it comes to same sex marriage, it's because I confidently know deep down that it is right (according to my belief system). I have a thing about injustices.

As per the world - we've been over that; It comes down to prudence and common sense pretty much.

~AJ

As I said, I dont mind making it a day for good reasons, but for political reasons, just to earn votes (and don't say you dont know that because we all know that)? That's rather insulting and shameful if you ask me.

So if I am not gay, why am I being forced to accept something I dont understand? Keep in mind, I have no issues with gays. I have a friend or 2 myself. So does my wife. The only difference between a gay guy and me is he likes men more than women or men only. Otherwise we both got dicks, can both pee standing or sitting and still need women to have children even if its thru adoption. It's interesting you think I am not in a position to judge anyone because I am not gay but don't people get put in juries to judge other people in crimes they may have never had any experience in? Do thieves judge thieves in court? Do child molesters judge child molesters? Most gay people claim they have been gay all their lives, how can they judge me if they have never been straight? I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty AJ, I don't fear some kind of gay retaliation because those who feel the need to use violence, insults, attempts to ruin peoples lives and such in situations that don't merit that kind of behavior will do so. I stand up for what I believe in, be gay all you want, that's your life. wanna get married? Let God judge you then. Want a holiday for you, you'll have to get approval, plain and simple.

I'm curious AJ, are you gay? Otherwise I would have to say your comments are just as ignorant as mine. You are speaking on behalf of gays as if you understand them but just as you pointed out to me that I am not gay so I am not in a position to judge and am ignorant, unless you are gay that makes you ignorant as well by your own words. Am I wrong?

Duh! My point. Don't tell me you didn't get that?

Lots of people do fall for a lot of BS, I don't believe what I believe in due to someone else feeding me stuff. I believe what I believe in because that is what I believe in. I say it again, I have no beef with gays, none. Wouldn't mind a couple of Lesbians for my birthday to be honest. But as I said before, doing something for political sakes is not something done right. Gays should not be celebrating something because someone gave it to them as a political favor. they should get it because they deserve it and they earned it and it's something the majority would like to have. That's like going up in a job because the boss is family, a friend of the family or because he likes you and not for your skills.

Gays have fought long and hard (don't misunderstand please) to be accepted but they have failed in one thing. They have failed to accept that there will be people who won't accept them. An "I don't care" attitude is not the kind of attitude deserving of a holiday or pride day. Black people didn't get a Black History Month because they had an "I dont care" attitude. They got it because they cared because they wanted to be equals, because they wanted to simply be; not for pride days and stuff. For crying out loud people wanted to make an Obama day, as if every other President before him had one. Obama is just a man, the only diffenece is that he is Black, but he is as a much a corrupt politician as any other.

You can say not really but it still stands that if people see you with gay people they will assume you are gay and am sure you will not simply say think what you want.

Agreed.

Still you are more concerned with those far away and less concerned with those close by. That's a strange way to see things. I care more about those around me, I could care less about those far from me unless I know them. Prudence and common sense are not attributes of a politician, unless you have been missing the last 5 years (just for starters) including this one.

Have you ever seen Star Trek The Next Generation AJ? I have seen in that show that even though mankind tries to be the better person in every situation to meet new species, often putting their own lives at risk in doing so, the risk is always met with caution, fear and distrust because while they are trying to show they have no need for striking first or coming off as superior, they know that the other person may not be as willing to risk their lives and might be more willing to take freindship as a weakness. I believe we can make friends with those wanting to be our friends so long as we have common goals, but those who don't how can we associate ourselves with them if we have to accpet things such as inhumane treatment, inconsiderate actions towards other nations and the belief that their religion, Gov't or both is superior to all and should be supreme? We may not be the poster boy for common sense, prudence, humility and justice; but I see us being closer to that than any other nation. That's just my opinion.

Read the context Infidel.  Who are we talking about?

Next time...keep up will ya? 

At one point I considered myself gay and was in several relationships with guys, but after a while I came to realize that I'm actually bisexual. And yes, I have actually bore the brunt of negative actions on the part of others who...shall we say...didn't think fondly of me.

Majority as in the majority of homosexuals? Or the American population? If it's the latter, I would have to disagree because I need only look back to the civil rights movement and the fact that "the majority" didn't want blacks to be treated equally, or for segregation to be changed.

You know, I can agree that the mainstream movement - i.e. the ones that people claim are "THE" movement and such, have indeed failed. In fact, I am currently brainstorming and researching an essay about how I believe the SSM/Homosexuality equality movement can change its tactics toward non-violence. (I've been reading Martin Luther King's and Ghandi's autobiographies - they is such an amazing and brilliant man) I believe that non-violence and other non-aggressive means could finally get things so that homosexuals are granted equal rights.

Yes I have actually; I'm a total ST nerd. I actually totally get what you're saying and am actually stating a variation of the same thing. As for being associated with countries who are inhumane -- charles -- everyone is associated with everyone in this glogalized world. You cannot not be connected to countries like Venezuela, Iran, etc. Mass media prevents that. Even if a government issues some ban, there are ways around it. Like the saying goes, if there is a will, there will be a way and it will be done.

Mmm, I don't know. I feel like we've lost our way/wandered from our path; this is a feeling that has grown since I finished reading a couple books.

I've always been a global and others first person, ever since I can remember. That doesn't mean I don't care about those close around me -- I love my family and friends to death. But, and I don't mean to sound arrogant, I've just always been the type that thinks...world wide, so to speak. In fact, I'm considering going into volunteer work. *shrugs* Anyways, it's unfortunate that politicians are not like that. I believe that prudence, common sense, plus a few other things are just what is needed in those who run a nation. I would say that we're in a dilemma because we're giving power to those who crave it, and as the saying goes: "Power is best in the hands of those who do not want it." (Or however it goes)

Well frankly, in my opinion, if people are going to judge me based off of what they see and not get to know me - then forget them. *shrugs* Yeah, I did point out looking professional, but that's another topic another time.

Mmm, there should have been a  ;~p after what I said as it was pure jest.

Simply put, to establish equal rights for a group of peple who clearly don't have that - does not mean that you have to accept it. I and others have provided points where our nation can makes sure that homosexuals are treated fairly/equaly and everyone could be happy.

I think you're confusing the noise of the more radical bunch with the basic desire of the majority of homosexuals. Most just want to live their lives, they don't want any of the crap that people throw at them.

As for my comment about not being in position to judge - I'm simply talking about the fact that, you're not gay, and haven't had to live the life of someone who is gay and has been disrespected, harrassed, assaulted, and so on so forth. That is the point I'm making - you've never had to know that your wish to marry the one person you are comitted to can never happen, because of who and what you are.

I was giving you a bad time, 'kay? Sort of a mimic/poke at what you said to me earlier.

~AJ

And if I were heterophobic I could interpret that as saying that heterosexual sex is a sin (as opposed to stealing another's wife).

Either way, King David is gay, if not necessarily exclusively.

But would your husband say that he loves that man more than he loves women or you?

Would it even occur to him to compare those two different kinds of love on a single scale?