Nope, I meant expound; it means to set forth or state in detail, or explain/interpret. Hence I was asking him to explain what he meant by merely saying what he said.

Be well, ~Alderic

Expand 2a: to express fully or in detail.

You could have chosen the simpler one, but no, you had to show off.

Well, someone had to disagree with my statement.

But think about it this way: what reason do you have to do the selfless thing?  Perhaps to be seen as "good" by the people around you?

Ultimately, our actions do have a root in selfishness.  We all want something, even if it is to be recognized as a selfless person.  It's so ingrained in our personalities and how we make decisions that much of the time we don't even realize it.

Actually, if you read the text, the thief never asked to be forgiven - which is interesting considering most churches have some variant of that "sinners prayer" that you say to be saved.

Hmm... of all Scripture, John 3:16 is the most widely known verse, yet you seem to have forgotten it.  It says "whoever believes" will be saved, not "whoever believes and does good works" will be saved.

KFC POSTS:

Catholics that I know have a wonderful peace much like Romans 5:1 describes as we are being justified. Trusting Christ, we have moral assurance of salvation though not an absolute one. He promised us eternal life if we love Him and keep His commands. We are quite capable of throwing His love away and turning from Him ruining our opportunity for salvation.

Yes, I'm being saved by God's grace,  I have been redeemed and am working out my salvation in fear and trembling. My salvation is nearer today and trusting in God I pray I will be saved.

Yes, panentheistic Buddhists also have a "wonderful peace."  They're not saved though.

Wasn't showing off at all;  expound just happened to be the word that came to mind.

Be well, ~Alderic

Perhaps instinctively, but consciously...I'm not so sure that's the case 100% of the time. Someone could do things without thinking of themselves. That biological "feel good," emotion could merely be just that, biological. Hence, the instinct toward altruism.

Be well, ~Alderic

It can still be considered to have a root in selfishness though - you will benefit from something that benefits you directly, but also likely have at least some benefit (but not to as great a degree) from something that benefits someone else. Whether from a feel good factor, or just the knowledge that they're better off. For example I would be happy to know my relatives are happy, and it would make me sad if they were sad. Financially, you could effectively model this that I would be indifferent to losing $x if they gained $y for situations where that money would be of equal benefit to the two people. More effectively, you could look at it in terms of actual benefit where I would prefer to suffer a loss of x 'benefit' if it meant the person would gain y 'benefit'. That is, I might prefer a situation that caused me to lose benefits worth ~$100 if it meant they gained benefits worth ~$300, meaning I'd have a 1:3 ratio, or 0.333. IMO to really be selfless I would have to have that figure above 1. Modelling this precisely is of course near-impossible since beneffits will be subjective between people and not readily comparable. However you can still get some sort of measure by just using money - that is I might be happy with losing $1 if it meant my parents gained $3.

I notice you say "Catholics that you know."  That's very telling Lula.  Because you don't have this peace yourself.  If you did you would have given us your experience in having this peace.   Admit it.  Obviously you can't have it if you don't believe that you're eternally secure.  

That's the whole point here.  That's the whole point in Christ telling us that while the religious leaders were piling heavy burdens of works and guilt upon the people Christ was saying  "Follow me, I"ll set you free."   You haven't been set free Lula.  You're still weighing heavy under the guilt and works your religious leaders are putting on you.

I saw my very good Catholic Father in Law die a very fearful death.  He was a deacon in his RCC and yet on his deathbed he was scared out of his mind.  While his six kids were around his deathbed he grabbed my husband  around the neck (the only born again believer) and with his dying breath he said "help me."   It totally changed my husband from that day on. 

Don't tell me about the RCC and peace Lula.  I've seen the damage first hand. 

but they don't tell you their little secret.... they really don't have peace.  It's external not internal.  They work very hard for this peace. 

Well I am saved.  I don't have to work for it and I liked I've showed many times here using scriptures we can "know".  In the Greek the word "know" that is used regarding salvation is "oida" and means "totally sure; without doubt." 

Again it is my strong contention that despite the claims of many sincere believers to the contrary Scripture clearly teaches that every person who is genuinely saved is eternally saved and secure.  We can never be in danger of losing the spiritual life given to us by God.  Romans 8:29-30 is maybe the clearest and most explicit presentation of this truth.  It says:

"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son that He might be the first-born among many brethren; and whom He predeestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." 

To justify means to make right with God.  It's a one time deal. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise until that day of redemption; sort of like an earnest deposit on a loan.  God will come back and make good on this promise. 

The promise of final glory was not uncertain as far as Paul was concerned.  By putting the phrase "these He also glorified" in the past tense, Paul was telling us his own conviction that everyone whom God justifies is eternally secure.   No one, whom God foreknows, will fail to be predestined, calling them justified and later glorified. 

well we're not dealing with exceptions here but generalities.  There's always an exception to every rule right?  So let's not get too nit pickey Lucas. 

From a Christian POV we ask ourselves...are we doing this for our own glory or are we doing it for God's glory?  If it's God's glory we really try not to take too much attention away from God giving him the credit and reason behind our giving whatever that may mean.  When I say "giving" it doesn't necessarily have to do with finances.  I do things on a regular basis for a couple of widows in my area so my giving of my time and talent is just as much giving as when I do something monatarily for them. 

Then he wasn't a born again believer. Things like this show us where we are in the faith.   But who knows if he really lost his faith or just is in the grieving process and stumbled a bit?  His faith could have been very weak.  If so, God will strengthen him back and restore him as before.  This is where a strong brother or sister in the faith comes into play.   In many cases, their faith grows stronger.  Or...he may not have been saved in the first place.  I've known many people who had terrible tragedies and yet their faith remained even stronger than before.  I'm sure you do as well. 

I guess it just goes to show, you don't know what a teabag is made of until it gets very wet. 

I love how you bring these things up, as to prove your point, when you can't with scripture.    My grandmother does this all the time to me only it has to do with a political debate.  When she gets cornered,  she'll tell me some tidbit scandal that is "going to come out soon" to prove her right about so and so.  It never does.   I'm still waiting for all that extra marital affair about Jeb Bush she told me years ago after Bush won the whole Florida debacle. 

How strong does it have to be?

So no matter how strongly someone believes, no matter what their actions etc. that further demonstrate this, they're not a born again believer if at any point in their later lives for whatever reason they lose their faith?

The thought is that if someone is truly saved, they won't ever turn back on God.  Hence Calvin's "once saved, always saved" belief.  If you turn away, then you weren't really saved to begin with.