no one is trying to convert anyone here.  I don't try to "convert" my Liberal family or friends.  It's useless.  They don't think and that's the whole crux of the matter.  They base everything on emotion.  Everything matters by how they feel it should be not because there is any clear reason behind their logic.  Facts just don't matter. 

you mean "change" like Obama is projecting?  Ya, he's about change all right.  Can't seem to nail him down....tumbleweed comes to mind.  He talks about change but so far I've not seen any change with him.  He's all talk......typical. 

 I never said anything about changing one's mind.  As you grow and learn and receive more information you will change some of your ways or ideas over time, but one thing that doesn't change is truth.  Taking the life of another to make your life better is murder.  It was murder.  It is murder and will always be murder no matter how much "lipstick" you put on it.   Taking the life of another for any reason outside of self defense is murder. 

Situational Ethics.  I guess to some that is a good out.  But I will not use them.  I have to look at myself in the mirror every morning, and what I see I dont want coming from an unethical and immoral act.

It's a good view and we all have our own set of morals and eithics to guide us.  My original point was that we shouldn't spite something because it was obtained through less than satisfactory means...what's done is done.  However, that's no justification to go on a rampage trying to gain more things.

~Zoo

Hello:

Are you framiliar with the Catholic Church?  I was raised catholic and so I understand how this happens.  You see our church attempts to get us to think (no that is not meant as a knock on any other church, I do not know how they feel about education, however I have never heard of baptist school...or evangelical school...but in my city we have more than one catholic school) a hem...the Catholic church tries to make us thinkers...and between having seen what subscribing to abstiance or pro life positions does...and we rethink it and do something else.  In addition our church beleive some wacky stuff...we think that the bread and wine literally becomes the body and blood of christ because the preist is granted that power by the Lord...

Catholics have faith in the Lord, we Love Jesus, and many of us do not switch faiths because we like the framilarity of our mass that we have grown up with and we like our church and its people, I am sure there are other reasons.  So yeah, we're hypocrits...remember the pederass priests?  No one is perfect. 

Biden in his love for humanity and the desire to help make life better for those that are born.  I am not sure where you are comming from on his beleifs changing with the winds.  Personally I find this a difficult position to setter within myself and I respect him for taking an unpopular position. 

By the way...Loud and harsh words indicate a weak position.

Rev Phil

But by using the fruits of ill gotten gains, you are only condoning and encouraging that activity.  That is why the law does not allow bank robbers to use their ill gotten gains to buy a lawyer.

It may be done, but we dont have to bless it.

See above.  All Biden is doing is what the Nazis did.  They used human beings to find cures and advance medicine.  No, that is not love of humanity.  That is laziness and barbarity.  It is what is reprehensible about the holocaust.  And what is practiced by those who claim to profess belief in a faith that states - unequivocally - that life begins at conception.  And that taking of that life - because it is convenient, expedient, and easy -  is murder, pure and simple.

For those that want to debate that life does not begin at conception, fine.  We can debate that and I can respect your beliefs.  For you are not murdering, just removing parasitic growths.  But for those that state life begins at conception - and then support abortion - up to and including post partum (as biden does), you are no better than the last mass murderer.  Because that is what you have stated you (the generic you) are.

The same can be said for members of just about any group out there whether it be religion, politics, just about anything.  There are some members that don't bother to actual think for themselves and merely follow what they are told to think.  These are known as sheeple.

Now I certainly don't defend anything that Biden says, but on the topic of stem cell research what is so wrong with it?  Now I'm not advocating that women should get abortions just to provide embryonic stem cells to do research with but what about stem cells that would be thrown out in the garbage anyway?  What about stem cells taken from the umbilical cord or the placenta after birth?  What about women who are going to get abortions for other reasons donating the embryo for stem cell research (assuming the timing is right)?  Like I said the alternative is that these potential stem cells are thrown out in the garbage so why not get some use out of them as long as it is voluntary?

What if the cure already existed because of stem cell research?  Would she honestly turn it down just because of how it was acheived?  To go to Doc's example of a polio vaccine acheived by Nazi research on the Jews.  Yes the way the research may have been done conflicts with your set of morals but are you honestly going to toss away a perfectly good cure to a debilitating disease just because the methods weren't the best.  Why are you going to reinvent the wheel?  Certainly if you find out about the methods before the cure is found then the research should be haulted if it is so reprehensible like the Nazi's experiments on the Jews, but once the cure is found it may as well be used rather than letting the sacrifices of those Jews be completely in vane.

If we are talking about abortion here, the bottom line is that many religions differ on when life begins.  So by advocating that the government take a position of stopping one from having an abortion we age going against what the creators of the constitution wanted, seperation of church and state.  Conservative members of this forum often like to point out the dreators of the constitution to me so I thought that I would help remind you of it.  Seems conservatives only use it when it suits their issues.

Just a side note I personally would never advocate anyone have an abortion, but I dont think it is right that we legislate what others do with their bodies.  I do agree their needs to be more clear laws though about when you may have an abortion.

Very.  I know it from inside and outside as I was one. 

now that's the first I've ever heard of this.  The CC has never been big in this department.  In fact they have thru the centuries DISCOURAGED any thinking that goes outside their realm of belief passed down by their leadership.  I could write a book on all those who were discouraged to think for themselves inside the CC.  Where in the world did you get this idea?   I know one priest who threw the bible in the trash can saying  "This is what I think of your book."   Another said "you don't need to know anything, we do everything for you." 

Some Catholics do, but not all.  You're really making my point here.   Many Catholics like Biden may like their church and FEEL comfortable in it because it's all they know but then they go against it as every gust of wind that carries them away (think tumbleweed).  Again, no foundation.  They are rootless. 

His love for humanity is to kill the unborn?  Are you saying this because he's Catholic?  Or "says" he is?  What does the EVIDENCE show you?   See this is what I'm talking about.  No foundation.  How can you stand on the premise that life begins at conception then advocate abortion?  It's like saying..."well I'm against murder, and wouldn't do this myself but if someone else wishes to murder, it's his/her right.  Who am I to tell him otherwise?" 

No I think anyone coming to the defense of the unborn loves humanity.  You've got it backwards. 

Also, how can you stand here and tell me how good the CC is and then respect Biden who is GOING AGAINST HIS OWN FAITH?  Which side are you on?  Or are you showing your roots as well?

 Unpopular position?  With who?  It can't be with the abortionists (they must love Biden)  so it must be with the CC.  So you are defending  the CC (very pro-life)  as you inhale and defending Biden (pro-abortion)  as you exhale.

See this is why I get so confused when talking with a Liberal. 

what about the body of the unborn? 

And who is to say that we should have those laws on the books?  Personally I don't think that suicide should be considered a crime, certainly not doctor assisted suicide for terminally ill patients.  I also think that some, not all, drugs should be legalized.

What a great Idea, Suck the brains out of the head of a newborn baby, on THE OFF CHANCE there MIGHT be some kind of CURE for SOMETHING, maybe! Just punch a nice neat hole in the head right through the undformed part of the skull of the newborn because that's the path of least resistance, then crank up the DYSON and suck them brains right out! try not to look at the babies eyes as life dies, because it does not have a clue what is happening to it, but what the heck there is just a slight chance that maybe one day possibly in some point in the future after enough childrens brains are sucked out of their living skulls there will be a cure for something, maybe! could be. They hope! But even if thwey are wrong look at all the fun they have killing all those babies in the name of science with no punishment, But I would hate having to explain that to G-D, "but, but, but G-D I was just following orders. HMMMMMM   where have I heard that before?

I'm with ya' Moderateman...oh, wait....you were being sarcastic.
Gotta love science!  Hey, could you be a little more graphic for us as if that stuff happens?
Do you understand what stem-cell research actually is all about?

From what I understand (and it's not much) adult stem cells have been more productive or promising in comparison to what they know about embryonic.  So if we can use adult stem cell, then we should and leave those babies alone. 

It's pretty interesting how many on the left champion the rights of the mothers and the use of their bodies but yet totally disregard the bodies of these little humans who are not allowed to speak up for themselves. 

Just doesn't make any sense.