Let me ask you a question. Did Jesus observe the feasts?

double

YES!

Go ahead......ask your next question.....  

If Jesus kept the feasts... as well as most of the Jews in the area.

Why would they need to 'remind' them to keep the feasts? Seems redundant to me.

Because Jesus HAD to keep the feasts. The whole idea was he was born of a woman to keep the law perfectly. Only HE could be the sacrifice for the rest of us. His rightesousness, his perfection is imputed to us. We WERE imputed with the sin of Adam and now we are imputed with the rightesousness of Christ.

The Apostles kept the feasts as was their habit, before the temple was destroyed...but I'm not sure how long they did so actually. They used the opportunity to preach Jesus as Jesus himself did in John 7:37 and 8:12.

If you read those two accounts and understand about the Feast of Tabernacles you'd see he was applying their feast to him as the manifestation of it. The Water and Light Ceremonies were very important elements to this feast.

It wouldn't be redundant remember because now the Apostles were turning towards the Gentiles. They wouldn't know much about the Jewish Feasts per se anymore than we would know about other's celebrations and traditions. We may have a general idea only. It was very clear in the OT book of Lev 23 that the Jews were to celebrate these feasts and that each one individual feast pointed to Christ....only they didn't know that at the time. Only later did all this make sense.

Take the US today. Would it be redundant to explain to a new 'christian' convert that Christians worship on Sunday and keep Christmas and Easter?

No.  It wouldn't be redundant because nowadays there are many who have no idea what Christmas or Easter is really all about. 

As far as Sunday..... same as I mentioned above....they may have a general idea..."oh Christians go to church on Sunday" but have no idea where or why that is so. 

 

 

 

Here in the US?

Yep. I had a girl working for me who was about 19-20. She had NEVER heard of Jesus. She knew a bit about Adam and Eve (name only) and had never heard of Noah. I'm NOT kidding. She told me she didn't know you could just go to any church. She really thought you had to be born into one or invited to one to attend.

If you doubt this, ask anyone who's ever watched Jay Leno when he goes on the street and asks Biblical Questions.....people on the street in NY have NO idea who's who and what's what.

One of my really best friends told me a story about five years ago about how she was setting up the Nativity with her kids explaining what each piece stood for. Standing nearby was her new sister-in-law listening to the story. After the kids left the room she told my friend she had NO idea that's why we celebrated Christmas. She thought it was all about good will, joy and just celebrating the season.

Yep, in the good ol' USA. I was just told the other day there is another country (can't remember which) who send more missionaries out than we do. I'm thinking we need to keep our missionaries here.

*cough* Pagan holidays *cough*

"In part, the Christmas celebration was created by the early Church in order to entice pagan Romans to convert to Christianity without losing their own winter celebrations."

""Christmas – An Ancient Holiday", The History Channel, 2007.

""Saturnalia", The History Channel, 2007.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

 

mwkidd65 posts: #54

KFC POSTS:


MWKIDD65 and KFC,
I offer post #75 as a complete refututation of these assertions.

KFC POSTS: #15

KFC POSTS #69

KFC,

Well, the many who believe this need to get a better grip on history. Constantine signed the Edict of Milan ending the persecution of those who adhered to the doctrines and practices of the early Catholic Church.

Perhaps a short review of what was going on within religions at the time of the Roman Empire would be helpful. The Greeks and Romans had many gods, some considered the emperors themselves to be gods. And there were the mystery religious cults from Egypt,Babylonia, Persia, etc. which promised to rescue men from the pueritlity of the traditional Greco-Roman cults. The early Church refused to worship their gods instead preaching one God and one true faith, not only for themselves but for the whole world. WHile Judaism was a legal religion, Christianity wasn't and many suffered martyrdom. Pagan persecution went on until the year 313, when the emperor COnstantine granted the early Catholics liberty to worship and for this the Church is greatly indebted for Constantine made it possible for the early Church to come out of her catacomb existence.

All during this time, Constantine remained the emperor ratifying and enforcing Roman law while the Church administrated her 7 Sacraments, Holy Mass, etc. and continued her God given mission, "Go therefore, teach ye all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you; and behold, I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world." They were two entirely distinctive realms working together for the benefit of both. The Edict or Constantine didn't bring the Church into existence and neither did it mean the empire dominated the Church.

It was through the Constantine that the FIrst Council was called at Nicea in 325. This was prompted by Constantine's desire for political and religious peace within the empire which was totally disturbed by the Arian heresy. While Constantine attended the Council in his official Imperial position at its opening, he didn't preside in its deliberations, nor did he ever take part in its discussions and determinations.

Because of effective missionary work and government support, Christianity further spread in size and influence throughout the empire. It became as important in the western part as in the eastern part. In 392, the emperor Theodosius made Christianity the official religion of the Roman empire. At the same time, he banned the old Hellenistic and Roman religions.



According to my daughter's secular history book, regarding the cross, it says, " According to legend, in 312 as the Roman general, Constantine, led his army to battle a flaming cross appeared in the sky and beneath it in fiery letters appeared the Latin words, In hoc signo vinces: "With this as your standard you will have victory". Apparently becasue of this vision, COnstantine ordered his soldiers to paint the Christian symbol of the Cross on their shields,. When his army won the battle, Constantine credited the victory to the Christian God."




KFC, who believes this tripe? Do you?

This theory about Constantine and the supposed influx of paganism into the Church might be called the standard Fundamentalist history...not backed up by any facts, Biblical or otherwise.

If there is one thing that is for certain is that Christianity had no appeal for the pagan world which is why for centuries they treated it with hatred and persecution. Christianity wounded the pride of pagans by asking them to worship a crucified Jew. Christianity attacked pagan morals, demanding of them that they should hate that way of life. It was war to the death and either Christianity or the pagan world had to go under. The obstacles were immense and the means at the disposal of Christians were inadequate at least from today's pov. The only force which can account for this expansion is given in the Acts of the Apostles. It was the power of the HOly Ghost promised and sent by Christ. It was the Holy Spirit who strengthened them and enlightened the minds of those who heard them. It was the HS who moved their obstinate wills to embrace the lofty doctrines and moral obligations binding upon Christians.

Yes Lula...I believe it. You would not because your Catholic books are telling you otherwise. Ishtar was a Babylonian goddess....I showed you scripture in Jeremiah and Ezek and you disagree....end of story....Tammuz is even mentioned. Who is Tammuz? I gave you a very good credible link which you have not commented on...instead relying on your Catholic books for information. ....or is it Catholic Answers? Of course this Ishtar/Tammuz stuff would be very offensive to the Catholics and it would enter territory which would make them a bit uncomfortable. I don't necessarily want to but if you keep throwing Catholic Answers at me, I feel I have to mention this.

I ignored your last two comments thinking you'd get the hint. So you come back with it again so I have no choice but to be honest with you.

The truth is Lula, Constantine and Rome kidnapped Christianity from the true believers and mixed it with paganism and that's why we have paganism mixed in with the CC and our holidays today. Martin Luther had to come from "within" the Church to kidnap back the Word of God to give it back to the people. If it were not for him, we would all be Catholics today and never even own a bible.

Basically the more Rome killed the Christians and threw them to the lions and burned them at the stakes, the more would crop up. That's what Jesus meant when he said the gates of hell wouldn't have his church. It's not the CC Lula. It's true believers who make up the church. It's not an organization. Satan knew...if you can't kill them, join them. That's what he did. He mixed the wheat with the tares and it was a brilliant move on his part. Still going on today. He's put leaven in the dough.

Isn't Mary called the Queen of Heaven by the Catholics? Did you not read in Jeremiah where the pagans were worshipping the Queen of Heaven....way before Mary was even born? It's all over the place about Nimrod/Tammuz/Ishtar. I'm surprised you can't find anything on this. Did you try just googling it if you don't believe me?

There is but One, Infinite God and only one religion of God's making. That religion was the religion of the Israelites (biblical Judasim)and it contained potentially, Christianity, the religion that displaced it. In biblical Judaism, "the only religion in the days before Christ, there was the Promise, Christ and the family of David from which the Christ was to come, and did come. Biblical Judaism contained a priesthood of Aaron, and Mosaic sacrifices, in pre_Christian times, that the Old Testament would be displaced, as it has been, by a priesthood without genealogy, and a "clean oblation" in place of the bloody oblations of old. This is why Catholics hold Catholicism, with its Christ-instituted priesthood and sacrifice (which is what He was doing when He said this) to be Judaism full-blossomed.

Christ our Lord, on the day before He suffered and died on the Cross, at the Mass of the Last SUpper, instituted the sacred and holy Eucharist, the perpetual memorial of His Passion, to be offered day by day through the ministry of His Apostles and through their successors, His Catholic priests.

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I wholly agree Ishtar was a Babylonian goddess: AD did a good job describing that earlier. From Ishtar came eggs symbolizing fertility. I got all that. No problem.


You said:




What you need to do is show in Jeremias and Ezekiel that "We get "Easter" from the Pagan god "Ishtar."

Making the ridiculous leap to Nimrod, the Tower of Babel, Tammuz, and Ishtar being called the queen of heaven, etc. will not do....for those have nothing to do with Easter or the celebration of it.

In my post #75 I said where the Christian liturgy of Easter comes from:

The Christian liturgy and Easter festival springs from the feast from biblical Judaism. The paschal lamb slain by the Israelites was typical of Christ and as the Christ risen as we say on the third day, in English, "Easter" has been retained.

And yes, our Easter feast days happen to fall in the spring season. But Babylonnian mythology and false honoring of Ishtar had nothing to do with this. We are honoring the Risen Christ, not spring, not fertility, not eggs, or bunnies.

I took the time to check out the entire context of Jeremias and Ezekiel and couldn't find anything that even remotely relates to Easter or the celebration of it. I said so in posts #74 & 75 which you chose to ignore. Now I ask you to refute them.

Here they are to make it easier since they are on the previous page:

Lula posts: #74



AND POST #75: