Well it could be Jewish law outside of scripture but it's not based on the Torah.  The Torah is clear, anyone wandering outside of marriage is an adulterer. 

The Jews,  had a low regard for women and they went outside the law to do so.  They interpreted Moses' law or twisted it to belittle the women.  Jesus, on the other hand, did just the opposite.  He treated them kindly and with respect.  That's why he was so loved by the Jewish women.  I'm sure this just ticked the leaders off more than we know.  Jesus was a woman's liberator well before woman's lib got here. 

This is an example of man's tradition usurping the word of God. 

 

I do not accept the Christian Bible as "G-d's law". And Jewish (as well as Islamic) law has always allowed polygamy. It was customary to allow it in the middle east (although Islam limits the number of wives to four).

In fact the Mormons also understood scripture that way. The matter is not as clear as you claim it is. Or rather it is, but it does not support your interpretation. If G-d had wanted the law to be like you said, He could have simply said "and don't marry a second wife", but He didn't.

You can read any number of Jewish treatises on G-d's law and you will find that it was always interpreted as allowing polygamy, by people of the same culture and language as those the law was written for. Monogamy was a Indo-European thing that came to Christiany when pagens converted to the new sect and brought their own customs.

All the religions based on scripture apart from Christianity still allow polgygamy.

 

I assume Abraham was an adulterer since he had two wives? And if he hadn't, did he not commit adultery?

The Torah does not say what you say it does.

KFC, that is simply ignorant anti-Semitism and I find it sad to see you repeat it. Jews did and do not have low regard for women. In fact you will find that Sarah is as revered as Abraham, that G-d was said to have a female presence (spiritual, always spiritual!) as well as a male presence, and at the very moment the Jewish festival of Purim reminds us of Esther who saved the Jewish people in Persia. There were female prophets and Jewish law allowed for women to own property thousands of years before any Christian country or law featured such an arrangement.

I find it upsetting that I even have to tell you this.

(BTW there is no Jewish source that says that Jewish women liked Jesus. Jesus' own followers probably wrote that they did. What does that prove?)

It is indeed. But it is the pagan tradition usurping Jewish law.

King David had six wives. King Shlomo had numerous wives.

Perhaps you are confusing the Bible with the Quran?

"Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly, then only one."

I'm not sure about the New Testament but as far as I know the Quran is the only holy book of the Abrahamic religions to advocate monogamy in any way or form.

I think it is great that you feel so strongly about marriage and monogamy. I do to, in perfect accordance with Ashkenazi Jewish law, if I may so so. But your repeated attempts to make something you happen to believe in part of G-d's plan is, in my opinion, not the correct way to deal with holy scripture.

I also think you should study scripture more, especially commentary written by scholars who understood the Tora in its own language and within the context of Semitic tribal culture. It might also help to study Islam to an extent because it also grew out of the same cultural framework and knowing it will allow you extrapolate better what a given statement in the Bible originally meant.

Also understand that Jewish belief says that with the Tanakh came an oral tradition, which was finally written down in the first millenium CE. Much of the Tora simply doesn't make sense without those explanations. And you will find many, many contradictions in the Bible, some of which are explained in the oral tradition, and some of which are not (yet).

Any saga that combines the legends of as many peoples as existed (and to an extent still exist) in the middle east will be very complicated and can only be understood with study of the languages and cultures of the peoples whose legends they were. Some of it is forever lost, but the Jews and Aramaeans and Arabs are still with us, as is the Christian tradition (which was heavily influenced by completely and utterly non-Semitic culture from Europe). If you study the lot, you can, perhaps, find out where it came from.

I personally believe that a conservative Jewish interpretation is the most correct, with orthodox interpretations being what was regarded strict in the past and now. Islam and Christianity are both changes, with Islam closer to the Semitic roots of the Bible but further (now and at the moment) from the spiritual meaning of it than Christianity.

 

Great debate, however it's pretty much accepted that you can only have one partner, male or female, by this I mean a man can only have one wife and vice versa. It's a mute point as the Christian doctrines in this day and age all agree on this. So do most other religions and cultures.

Yet it is true that this was not always the case. Even Martin Luther allowed poligamy, even though the christian church of the day did not allow it, he made this decision based on the same arguments some of you have put forward, going back to Abraham, who had several wives.

The reality is though that the law itself does make sense as all of God's Laws do, if you play around on you wife or husband they will be hurt as will your children, and the partner of the other person and their children, if they have one. So you are commiting multiple sins, firstly the adultry, decption, and the hurt you cause those affected. That's the wonderful thing about sin, it is very rarely singular.

Ugh, I think when it comes to adultery I'll just stick to the "in your heart" variety. Heh, because the LAST thing on planet earth I want is another woman...   

I never heard this before.  Do you have something on this I can look up to verify?  I've got his whole collection of sermons (just got them) and haven't really dug into too  much of his writings although I do know he only had one wife. 

 

Ok, but I gave you Moses law.  Go ahead and read it in Hebrew if you wish.  You'll find it reads the same. 

It was made very clear.   Again, I used Moses writing to show you this. 

and that's due to the hardness of man's heart, not on the scriptures. 

Do you know who the first polygamist was? 

yes, and that's why the mess today.  Ishmael is still fighting Isaac to this day.  This would not have happened if Abraham waited on God's promise instead of taking Hagar as his second wife.   His children are still paying the price today.

Have you checked Jewish historian Josephus?  He wrote in the first century. 

Have you read the book of Matthew written especially by a Jew to the Jews?  There's two sources right there. 

Islam came hundreds of years after Christianity.  Christianity was Jewish in nature.  The early church was entierely Jewish.  The whole New Testament (Christian scriptures) was written by Jews with the exception of Luke who was a Gentile Doctor.   The revelation of God both New and Old was entrusted to the Jews. 

Yes, it was. But it doesn't say monogamy.

Arabs and Jews have not traditionally fought each other more than any other two peoples have fought each other or either of the two. You are looking at the last hundred years. What you see is Arabs who follow Arab nationalism rather than the word of G-d.

Your theory for why Arabs and Jews are fighting is good and close to scripture, but lacks evidence. Arab nationalism is a philosophy imported from Europe. The Quran quite clearly states that the land of Israel belongs to the children of Israel. The emnity you see between the children of Isaac and the children of Ishmael is not a result of Abraham's two wives.

In fact, what tells you that he was not supposed to have two wives and two sons? How do you know that Ishmael was not supposed to bring knowledge of the god of Abraham to the Arabs? (Note that Ishmael is not the ancesor of all Arabs but only the cultural ancestor of current Arabs.)

Abraham did not commit adultery and G-d did not punish him for it. And David and Shlomo were never punished by G-d for adultery either.

Again, if G-d had wanted such a law, he would have said so. You keep referring to the idea that He has, but in fact the Bible says the opposite.

 

San Chonino posts:

I should do alot of things SC, but there are only so many hours in the day...
Thanks for recommending your blog...I'll try to check it out in the next few days.

ummmmmm SC what are you trying to tell me here? 

Is this all about your facination with the dinos or polygamy?  Hmmmmm? 

Leauki posts #8

Really? this is news to me....monogamy was a Roman thing....could you explain further?

It certainly wasn't up until the time of Christ...I always thought monogamy was a "Christian" thing...

What do you mean by saying Christianity "as it moved away" from Judaism?



I thought polygamy was also practiced amongst the Yeminite and other Oriental Jews as well as the Sephardic Judaism.



Besides allowing each man four wives, according to the Qur'an, slave mistresses and concubines are also allowed.

Yes, St.Paul elaborates on this in his Epistle to the Ephesians. He compares the union between husband and wife to that of Christ and the Church.

Leauki posts:

KFC POSTS:

I disagree KFC. God did allow polygamy...He didn't sanction it per se, but allowed it.


After the Fall, original justice was destroyed and it was different for the entire world. There was now a rupture in the original communion between man and woman and the beautiful vocation of Marriage. God’s blessing to be fruitful, multiply and subdue the earth was burdened by the pain of childbirth and the toil of work. Marriage was under the regime of sin and the marital relationship became marred by concupiscence. Subjection became servitude and liable to all sorts of tensions, discord, conflicts and abuses. Women, especially among pagans, became degraded and cruelly treated.

God’s ancient design of faithful monogamy was not preserved and fell from its original honor and purity.
In His mercy, God hasn’t forsaken sinful man. Moral conscience concerning the unity and indissolubility of Marriage developed under the pedagogy of the Old Law. In the OT, the polygamy of the ancient Patriarchs and kings is not yet explicitly rejected. Nevertheless, the law given to Moses aims at protecting the wife from arbitrary domination by the husband, even though according to the Lord’s words, it still carries traces of man’s ‘hardness of heart’ which was the reason Moses permitted men to divorce their wives. St.Matt.19:8; Deut. 24:1. While the wife was subject to her husband, she was no mere chattel, as with the pagans.

You no doubt are thinking of the exclusive attachment that was prized in the OT by some of those who believed in God. Seeing God’s covenant with Israel in the image of exclusive and faithful married love (God wedded Israel in the desert),the prophets prepared the God's people for a deepened understanding of the unity and indissolubility of Marriage Hos.1-3; Is 54; 62; Jer. 2-3:31; Ezek.16;23; Mal. 2:13-17. The Books of Ruth and Tobit also witness to an elevated sense of Marriage and to the fidelity of spouses.

So yes, some of the ancient Patriarchs married several wives and that was part of the Old Law. Yet, Christ has clearly shown that polygamy is not in keeping with the primal nature of Matrimony as was "in the beginning." St. Matt.19:5-6; St.Mark 10:11-12.

Yes, you're right. God allowed it. I should have said God did not sanction it. He did not wish for men to have more than one wife. Many of the Patriach's did not. Adam did not. Seth did not. Noah did not. Moses did not. Lot did not. Abraham had Hagar at the insistence of his wife only. Lamach, a descendant of Cain was the first polygamist. Why follow his lead?



Yes, some did marry more than one wife, but that was NOT part of the Old law. Where do you see that it is?