What If Jesus Was Never Born?

Thank God He Was

Published on January 29, 2008 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Religion

What if Jesus Christ was never born? What would it be like here and in the rest of the world? Would it make a difference at all? It is a thought provoking question isn't it? What if Jesus had never been born?

If Jesus was never born, what a difference it would make in politics. Our representative form of democracy rests on explicitly Christian principles of church and state. So do our principles of free speech and religious tolerance. In fact, the very founding of this nation was motivated by the goal to establish a Christ-centered community. If Jesus was never born, there wouldn’t be a United States of America, at least as we know it today.

If Jesus was never born, what a difference it would make in education. The world’s oldest universities were all founded on Christian principles, so that students could grow in the knowledge of Jesus Christ. The same is true of nearly every one of the first one hundred colleges and universities in America. Eventually people would have developed institutions of higher education, but there would be no Oxford, no Harvard, no Yale, and no Princeton. Furthermore, Christians have always been pioneers in promoting literacy and universal education. Even America’s public school system is part of the legacy of Puritan education. To this day, linguists are working all over the world, in the name of Jesus, to put native languages in written form and teach people to read the Bible.

If Jesus was never born, what a difference it would make in literature, music, and the arts. There would be no Messiah for Handel to write into his famous oratorio—no Christmas music at all. There would be no Pieta by Michelangelo, and no Last Supper by Leonardo. There would be no cathedrals in Europe, no Hagia Sophia or Notre Dame. There would be no Gospels and no New Testament, and therefore no story of the prodigal son, no parable of the good Samaritan, and no Sermon on the Mount. There would be no Divine Comedy by Dante, and no Paradise Lost by Milton.

If Jesus was never born, what a difference it would make in science and medicine. It was the Christian worldview—with its insistence on the rational order of the universe and man’s dominion over creation—that gave rise to modern science. Followers of Jesus Christ were also pioneers in the art of medicine. The first hospitals were established by Christians who believed they had a God-given responsibility to heal the sick.

If Jesus was never born, what a difference it would make in charity and the protection of life. It was the followers of Christ who first introduced the Roman world to disinterested benevolence, to helping someone who couldn’t help you in return. Pagans were amazed to see that Christians not only took care of their own needy people, but also provided for other people’s poor. It was also the followers of Christ who first abandoned the nearly universal practice of infanticide. The birth of Christ taught them to protect the lives of their own children, and to rescue foundlings and orphans.

Humanly speaking, none of this would have happened if Jesus was never born. What I have said so far is only just the beginning, of course, and it is also true that many wrong things have been done in the name of Christ—that is a topic for another occasion. But simply in terms of secular history, the life of Jesus Christ has had a far greater and more positive influence on the world than anyone else in history.

But to bring what I have said closer to home, if Jesus was never born, what a difference it would make to your own destiny. You would have no atonement for your sin, no resurrection from the dead, no hope of eternal life, and no Savior to call a friend.

What if Jesus was never born? But Jesus was born. As the angel said to the Christmas shepherds: “Unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord” (Luke 2:12). And the rest, as they say, is history.

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Comments (Page 2)

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Jan 30, 2008

Those are the kinds of people I don't get along with in the slightest...but there's a lot of them, always has been

now THAT Zoo we are in complete agreement on.

ParaTed2k

on Jan 30, 2008

If Jesus were never born, we would still be living the old law, waiting for the Messiah spoken of by the prophets... in other words, we would be Jewish.

I'm taking the question at face value, since my answer would be totally different if the question posed was, "what if Jesus never existed".

lulapilgrim

on Jan 30, 2008

OCKHAMSRAZOR posts:

Let's say that one of the defining qualities of Christ is that he never murdered anybody and never would based on some moral principle of his. Would you say that if Christ had not existed we'd all be murderers because we'd have no example of not murdering to follow? If so, I say that is not true. Buddha (one example) was morally and ethically like Christ without ever having the pleasure of his acquaintance. Somehow he figured out "right acting, right thinking," etc...all by himself. Buddha was just a human. So by transitive properties where if a = b and b = c then a = c we can determine that if Buddha could be like Christ and Buddha was just a human that never heard of Christ, then all humans that have never heard of Christ can also be like Christ without having heard of him.

I'm responding to the part you've written about Buddha not ever having met CHrist was somehow moral and ethical and figured that out all by himself.

I'd say that your description of Buddha's figuring out "right acting, right thinking" toward his fellow man was a practical application of the great commandment of Love.

OckhamsRazor

on Jan 30, 2008

I'm not sure what does that have to do with the subject matter? Why do you need to know? I don't ask personal questions nor do I answer them especially to those who seem to be very contrary to anything I say.

You had said:

Furthermore, Christians have always been pioneers in promoting literacy and universal education.

And I became curious about your education. Obviously, you don't have to answer. Sorry if it's a touchy subject. I didn't realize asking what college you graduated from was that personal.

I did and I'm wondering why all the anomisity here?

No animosity. I just prefer that when my "name" is linked with a statement it is a factual linkage. Most people I know aren't fond of being "sound bite-ed." Maybe that wouldn't bother you. I will not be testing that hypothesis. I consider misrepresenting someone to be wrong.

I have taken your name off. I don't understand the big deal here.

We must have been on your blog at the same moment. After I posted what you quoted (the "just fix it" thing), I checked on a hunch you may have already changed it, and you had. So I went back and edited my response. The big deal is one of common respect for other human beings. As I said, it isn't proper in my world to misrepresent others. I have done it myself without thinking on occasion. When called on it, the first thing out of *my* mouth is "I'm sorry." Your mileage may vary. Call it semantics if you wish, but I have every right to protest you saying I had posed a question that I never posed.

From Lula:

I'd say that your description of Buddha's figuring out "right acting, right thinking" toward his fellow man was a practical application of the great commandment of Love.

It's not really my description. That's pretty much the story of Buddha. He figured out whatever it was people/Buddhist texts claim he figured out using nothing but his brain - approximately 500 years prior to Jesus making his appearance. Right acting and right thinking are two of the 8 parts of the path that Buddha described worked for him in this endeavor. Right speaking is another...

OckhamsRazor

on Jan 30, 2008

Oops forgot one part.

You asked me a very specific question on my other blog wishing I get back to you on the deity of Christ. When I answered your question honestly you made no comment on it chosing rather to ignore my answer.

I'm sorry. I wasn't ignoring you. There was nothing to respond. I was looking for a quote where Jesus said "I am the son of God" or "I am divine" or some such. You provided me with what you know...I suppose I should have said "Thanks for the info" but beyond that I had no further comment. Thanks for the info.

Zoologist03

on Jan 30, 2008

Right acting and right thinking are two of the 8 parts of the path that Buddha described worked for him in this endeavor. Right speaking is another...

The Eightfold Path.

Wisdom
1. Right view
2. Right intention
Ethical conduct
3. Right speech
4. Right action
5. Right livelihood
Mental discipline
6. Right effort
7. Right mindfulness
8. Right concentration

Gotta give props to Buddha, pretty good stuff.

~Zoo

lulapilgrim

on Jan 30, 2008

Eightfold Path.

Wisdom
1. Right view
2. Right intention
Ethical conduct
3. Right speech
4. Right action
5. Right livelihood
Mental discipline
6. Right effort
7. Right mindfulness
8. Right concentration

Gotta give props to Buddha, pretty good stuff.

~Zoo

Let's dig a little deeper. On what did Buddha base his notion of what "Right" is?

OckhamsRazor

on Jan 30, 2008

Let's dig a little deeper. On what did Buddha base his notion of what "Right" is?

Well, I wasn't going to give Buddha lessons, because as the Buddha taught, everyone must work it out for him/herself. But the premise is that there are 4 "noble truths" which deal with personal suffering and the cessation of it. Thus "right" is not determined until suffering has successfully been stopped. If somehow I work it out that a particular method of juggling kittens ends suffering, then "right kitten juggling" would be a part of my solution. The eight things listed were what worked for the Buddha. "Right" is what works.

Zoologist03

on Jan 31, 2008

Let's dig a little deeper. On what did Buddha base his notion of what "Right" is?

I'd listen to Ock. He seems to know a lot more than me. I just look up stuff and find out what it is.

~Zoo

Leauki

on Jan 31, 2008

If Jesus were never born, we would still be living the old law, waiting for the Messiah spoken of by the prophets... in other words, we would be Jewish.

How would that make you Jewish?

I never understood why Christians stopped waiting for the Messiah. If Jesus was the Messiah, he will have to come back and rebuild the Temple. He forgot to do that the last time he was here. Until he comes back and rebuilds the Temple, he is not yet the Messiah, not per the "old law" definition, which allegedly identified the Messiah and hence legitimises the "new law".

Either way, believing in what the Jews believe doesn't make you Jewish in the same way that believing what Arabs believe doesn't make you Arab.

In fact, Muhammed believed everything the Jews believed (until he believed that he himself was a prophet), but he was not Jewish.

(He was a Zionist though or at least claimed that Allah was.)

ParaTed2k

on Jan 31, 2008

Leauki: fair enough, yes, I was referring to Jewish the religion, not the ethnic group. But you are right.

Jewbu

on Jan 31, 2008

Good Morning Everyone,

What a fascinating thread developing here. Ock, Zoo, great stuff regards the Buddha, Lula, KFC, I bow to your courtesy. Asking he source of the good is like asking the source of the Infinite. They are the same: life and its eternal processes.

KFC, let me say that I believe history shows that Christians have, indeed, been the single worst anti-Semites and persecutors of the Jews. The ghettos, shtetls, forced relocations, anti-Jewish laws, and pograms in Europe were Christian in origin, the Catholic Church has humbly apologized for its atrocities, and even in America growing up, I heard Christians referring to Jews as 'dirty', 'cheap' and being Christ killers. What you tend to do, is say that anyone calling himself a Christian and behaving in such a manner is not a Christian. Its like saying those who hate are by definition not Christian, yet there in the white hoods is a New Testament in one hand a noose in the other and a burning cross on the lawn. Christian nations, clubs, and kings have done horrible things in the name of their God. It is any wonder we might be suspect of this new, compassionate Christianity circulating these days?

It might be appropriate to look at how Christian theology has been distorted by those who hate in service to their mission to cleanse the world of anyone not like them. Rather than deny that it occurs in the name of your God or to deny their brand of Christianity. Anyone outside the faith looking coldly at it sees this truth.

If Christ were never born, my guess is we'd be pretty much in the same pickle we are now as a planet. Human nature is what it is, sometimes inclining toward the good, sometimes not: but always growing and deepening along the way.

Be well.

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Jan 31, 2008

KFC, let me say that I believe history shows that Christians have, indeed, been the single worst anti-Semites and persecutors of the Jews

Yes Sodaiho I would respectfully disagree with you. Religionists maybe, Christians, no. Hitler for example was an extreme hater of the Jews. Some may say he was a Christian because he was brought up Catholic. Many Catholics did turn their backs on the suffering Jews. Some didn't. Those who helped the Jews (and many Christians did) are the true Christians. Those who were the anti-semites were NOT Christians. They couldn't be. I'd suggest you go back and look at all the Christians who did help the Jews during WWII.

I heard Christians referring to Jews as 'dirty', 'cheap' and being Christ killers

While you may wish to call them Christian their fruit is telling me otherwise (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness etc). Besides if you look into their own NT scriptures you'd see otherwise. Peter accused all as being Christ killers, not just the Jews. It was our human sin that put him on the cross. He took his own life. No one took it from him.

What you tend to do, is say that anyone calling himself a Christian and behaving in such a manner is not a Christian.

It's not coming from me Sodaiho. I didn't make this up. It's coming from the Jew himself. Jesus said, "the world will know you are my disciple by the love you have for each other." He also gave the story of the Good Samaritan. Our neighbor is one we meet along life's way. When we show kindness to the stranger no matter the ethnicity we are showing love and are exemplifying our Christianity.

It might be appropriate to look at how Christian theology has been distorted by those who hate in service to their mission to cleanse the world of anyone not like them. Rather than deny that it occurs in the name of your God or to deny their brand of Christianity. Anyone outside the faith looking coldly at it sees this truth

Yes. I've never denied this Sodaiho. Sadly, many out there misrepresent Christianity and one day they will have to account for what they have done. The Christians left behind that are truly doing good have been branded unfairly by people like you who choose to look at the ones NOT following their leader as the poster children for Christianity when it's not true. Why not look at the Detriech Bonehoffers and Corrie Ten Booms of the world who risked their lives as Christians to shelter the Jews?

I've told you before, I do believe you have a very big bias against Christianity and I know it's based on those "bad" Christians (if you can call them that) you've had experience with. I wished you'd look past that to the bigger picture of what Christianity is really all about and not believe the lie.

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Jan 31, 2008

Ok, I'll take your word for it. I never ever would misrepresent somebody knowingly Ock. In my opinion I did not, but if you feel that I did, I do apologize for it. As far as being sound bite-ed? Ha, It happens all the time to me. I've found myself more than once the subject of another's blog without my permission. I just shrug it off for the most part. I take it as a compliment most of the time. It means I'm being thought of. Hey....it's better than the alternative.

Right acting and right thinking are two of the 8 parts of the path that Buddha described worked for him in this endeavor. Right speaking is another...

And that would be something that would mesh quite nicely with scripture or the words of Jesus. Right thinking precedes right living is how I believe scripture puts it.

I'm sorry. I wasn't ignoring you. There was nothing to respond.

well I'm kind of touchy when it comes to looking for a way to sling the arrows at another without at least giving a nod to something nice that was done on their behalf if possible. It's much easier to criticize than to compliment. That's one thing I've learned around here. I think we should at least look for ways to be nice to one another even if we don't agree on many points. Let's show each other where there is common ground.

It took me some time to put that together for you Ock and rather than acknowlge it, you chose to blast me out about something else. That's all.

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Jan 31, 2008

I never understood why Christians stopped waiting for the Messiah. If Jesus was the Messiah, he will have to come back and rebuild the Temple. He forgot to do that the last time he was here. Until he comes back and rebuilds the Temple, he is not yet the Messiah,

Because the Messiah came already. We are still waiting for him to return after the fullness of the Gentiles comes to a close tho. THere is nowhere in scripture that we're told HE will build a temple again. In fact it's quite the opposite. I think you're referring to the anti-christ who is supposed to build a temple during the tribulation.

The word Tabernacle means that God dwelt among his people. In the OT the Tabernacle was God's dwelling place on earth. When Jesus came it said he came and dwelt among us. John 1:14. Basically it meant that he tabernacled with us in the flesh. In the future when he returns there will be no need of a temple because God will be dwelling amongst his people. It says in Rev 21 (the chapter of no mores) that in the new Jerusalem there will be no temple needed.

"and I saw NO temple therein for the Lord God Almight and the Lamb are the temple of it." Rev 21:22.

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