Gotta love that human ego.

I've always felt humans were capable of larger and greater atrocities than our fellow creatures...which on some level makes us beneath even those we look down on.

Just a point I like to make. I don't recall any great holocausts, wars, or perseuction ever happening in nature.

As humans we are capable of great good, but also great evil...animals, even if having no conscience cannot perform evil acts because they feel like it...and that's got to count for something.


~Zoo

Well, it does count for something. Animals have there proper place in the whole scheme of things. But neither animals or the earth can take precedence or be put above the value and dignity of the human person. BOth were placed under our dominion.

Man towers a heavenly height above the animals and is "a little lower than the angels." Ps. 8:6.

Our distinguishing characteristics are gifts from God who alone of all the created creatures can love, honor and obey his Benefactor.

That depends upon the individual in my book...there are some people not worthy of that value or dignity.

~Zoo

I hear ya, Zoo, and there are plenty of people who treat animals better than they do people.

People do not have it in themselves to behave even WITH God, Ock, so why do you think they have it in themselves without God? We can't behave all the time. We can some of the time, sure, but not all the time. Everyone knows they have done something wrong. They aren't perfect. Unfortunately, perfection is what is required. Luckily, Jesus came and lived that perfection, so that the sinners could be saved.

As it stands, God is the only one who can be perfect and God is the only one who can make us perfect. It's not under our own power that we become perfect, but God's. A lot of people think that becoming a Christian means we have to 'try really hard' to be 'good', but that doesn't work either. There's only one being able to make you good, and that is God. Not yourself.

Right on Jythier.......it's nice to have some backup!!!

In fact, I think the fear of death is what motivates MOST Christians.

Actually I disagree here. I've been around many cancer patients' many of them friends of mine and have seen a huge difference between those who have a strong faith and those who don't. The fear of death s not nearly as extreme for the born agains as it is for those who have no faith. The stronger the faith, the more peace is exhibited.

I saw an atheistic Jew on his deathbead and he hung on for months and should have died much sooner but he hung on for fear life....and I mean fear. He was so afraid to die. I saw another who looked like she had demons chasing her when she died. I saw another grab my husband's neck begging for him to help him. He was a "good" Catholic but had no relationship with Christ. I saw another with tears streaming down his face as he rejected Christ on his deathbed. Three days later he was dead. In the church they went on and one about how Don was fishing in heaven????? So to this church he was a Christian even tho he rejected Christ three days before he died.

I've also seen very strong faithful Christians die with joy. My friend was telling me about her Dad who died this past year and you could actually feel the joy in the room when he passed. I'd much rather go to a believer's funeral than one who died with no hope.

A man named Solomon Peas died in London and his tombstone in London reads: “Beneath these clouds and beneath these trees lies the body of Solomon Peas. But this ain’t Peas - it’s just the pod. Peas shelled out and went to God.” I like that. That’s what your body is. It’s just a pod. What happens to a child of God who has trusted Christ as his personal Savior? When he closes his eyes in this life, he opens them in the next. If we believe Paul's words and I do. He said....for Christians they can be assured that absent from the body is present from the Lord.

Even LW if all this was bunk....and I don't for a moment think it is, but even so......I am so much better off with this hope than one is without it. I am in a win-win situation. If you're wrong, it's too late. You're wrong for eternity.

One things for sure. We will all find out one day, that will be one minute after we die.

Yes, this seems to be the case.



John McCain, move aside! This is as "straight talk" as it gets!!   

Pascal's Wager.

~Zoo

Thanks Zoo for that. I didn't know Pascal felt the same as I did. There are always answers to objections. The question is which side are you going to fall on?

I would be agreeing with Pascal myself.

Very interesting site, Zoo, thanks for the link! I wonder sometimes about the terms of some of those arguements, however. God is so often defined by our brains's limitations or cultural norms as to render them either nonsensical or very inadequate.

Be well.

Pascal's Wager....Good one Zoo. 3 for 3 now...

It goes back to the fact that people have to convince themselves out of belief...that there is no God.

Foolish unbelievers wager a few years of earthly life vs. eternal life. "You know the fool says in his heart, there is no God."

Pascal's Wager...pretty much says it's better to believe than to not. If you believe and you're wrong, well at least you had a shot. Don't believe and you're wrong...well, you're screwed.

Take it for what it's worth...although hopefully your belief system isn't based upon Pascal's Wager, then you're just kind of playing the odds without your heart in the game.

~Zoo

Quite true, and there is plenty of this type of thing (playing the odds)around, giving Christianity a bad rep.

I love this.

~Zoo