I didn't say he had them at the same time. Lilith took off(she was such a rascal ) and then God made a more subservient one, Eve, from Adam.

~Zoo

So why not give me the rest? He did more than what you gave me. This has nothing to do with a trance. Where the heck are you getting that from?

Have you even read this book?

in the book of Ezekiel there are 12 symbolic acts each with a literal meaning or prophecy behind them. Each came true BTW. Ezekiel was quite into drama. His acts are as follows:

1. Drawing a map of Jerusalem
2. Lying on his leftr side for a portion of 390 days.
3. Lying on his right side for a portion of 40 days.
4. Preparing a scant meal
5. Shaving his head and beard
6. Stamping his feet and clapping his hands
7. Digging trhough a wall
8. Trembling as he ate his food
9. Slashing about with a sword
10. Drawing a map of the Middle East
11. Boiling a pot of water dry
12. Remaining tearless at his wife's funeral.


So nope, don't see any trance here.

I do find it illuminating. I do use scripture as my guide. But as you know, when you take a class you take a class. They do nothing but back up what I've already know for the most part. I have learned a few things and this course has helped me remember things long forgotten. Like anything I don't always agree 100% with the teacher but for the most part I have not had any problems with the teaching coming from LU. I would say they are "right on."

Thanks for the helpful hint tho. I always appreciate stuff like that...lol.

In the first place....I have not once mentioned magick or claim to know anything more than you have mentioned on the subject. I'm not sure without further research if they are one in the same or not. I'm talking about Black or White MAGIC not MAGICK.

I do know that witchcraft is an ancient practice dating back to biblical times and can be defined as the performance of magic, an activity forbidden by God. The word witchcraft is related to the old English word "wiccian" "the practice of magical arts."

Black magic has a connection with Satanism. There is also black witchcraft covens of which I believe the Manson gang was involved. Everything I've read on this subject is admittedly and unashamedly Satanic.

I do believe Satanism is alive and growing.

KFC asked if she'd plucked a nerve. In a sense she has, the same nerve she always plucks. I don't resent her faith in her god - why would I? Personally, I've come to think that the faith she professes is nonsense. But that's only my opinion, and no one is under any compulsion to pay attention to it.

Nor, despite my comment above, do I think that being a woman invalidates her as a teacher. I've known many women of a spiritual nature who were worthy teachers. Nor do I think that the fact her religion is a partial truth means that it should not be preached or taught. A partial truth is partly true, and it's for the hearer and believer to discern for himself what's true and what's false in what he believes. Christianity, understood on its own terms and within the tenets of its traditions, is just as worthy a religion as any other.

Nor do I expect KFC to confess that she's in error while I am in sole possession of the truth. I possess no truth but my own, and it's as partial and circumscribed by circumstance and the frailty of human understanding as any other such truth. What I expect of her is that, as a teacher of her truth, she be at least as familiar with that truth as I am, an unbeliever, one to whom she is meant to present her truth as an obligation of her religion.

Alas, she's yet to expound her faith in ways that can't be immediately and transparently traced back to her own inane pride and vapid self-satisfaction. I fully expect some response along the lines of "Well, Ezekiel is a prophet of the OT, and as we know the OT was a dispensation nullified by the coming of Jesus, and it's what Jesus teaches that actually counts, so any example you can cite from the OT is irrelevant."

Such a response, if given, would do something at which KFC excels. It would, seemingly, address the point raised; but would do so by entirely neglecting the issue at hand - which is the reality of practices attested to by the bible which completely contradict the dogma and doctrines of idol worshippers such as Falwell and KFC.

As I say, the woman excels at changing the terms of her argument on the fly, and in doing so in ways which appear to address the original point. It's a subtle technique and one not easily identified. And it's something she does whenever her position is undermined by citing biblical instances which contradict her original statements.

By all means preach, you devil-worshipping idolater. But don't ever think you aren't known for what you are. A vain, frightened woman who takes the name of her god in vain.

Nonsense.

Ya, I agree. All of it. And nothing less nonsensical than anything you've presumed to teach. What, did I predict your response with such accuracy that this is all you could come up with?

You disappoint me, KFC. I expected more from you than that.

Well, I'm-a go meditate while I do me some yoga now . . .

What, did I predict your response with such accuracy that this is all you could come up with?

? Nope. Not even close.

Oh, and one more thing. What, exactly, is circumsion if it is not a pact sealed in blood between God and man? Or do you imagine that the victims of this vile, barbaric rite do not bleed?

As I've said elsewhere, KFC - you are an idiot. And not merely an idiot but a foul hypocrite, liar and deceiver. May your Jesus judge you for what you are - a whited sepulchre, a thing full of the filth of idolatry.

You claim to know, and walk in ignorance. You claim to be full of the truth but are the inheritor of lies. You claim to be full of light, but you are sick with the darkness of your own vanity. But fear nothing, you incomparable hypocrite, liar, and deceiver. In the end, you'll get exactly what you deserve.

It's not I, nor anyone like myself, that will judge you. So you need fear no partiality. Out of your own mouth will come the words that condemn you, and they will be words that attest to your vanity, to your love of self, and to your love of the good opinion of the world.

I know exactly what you are. And so does your Jesus. And neither of us will pardon you.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo! Not YOGA! Satan does yoga!

You'll get raped by sex demons, SanCho...SEX DEMONS!

~Zoo

I'm-a stay away from KFC's first point and ask something else.



Where do people get this theory? In the Bible, there is no mention of Lilith. So where'd she come from?

Judaic mythology. It has no real bearing on the Bible at all(well, she was cut out of it)...but it's another story if you care to read.

Here's some stuff about her: Lilith

~Zoo

Me, I'd fornicate with a Demon any time any ol' Demon cared to ask. Not only would I, but I have.

There's a movie I like. It's called 'Angel Heart'. The gist of the story is unimportant, as is the cast list (though it does feature a thoroughly sinister Robert DeNiro in the role of Satan). The plot involves an inexplicable murder somewhere in the Deep South. It features VooDoo, and the evocation of Principalities of Darkness.

Some pathetic secret is to be concealed, and the aid of angels is involved in hiding it. As part of that evocation a human woman participates in sex with a Demon, or an Angel, or something entirely Nameless. The sex is one part of the price paid to secure the aid that's required. The murder is another part of that same price. If you look in the ancient texts, you'll find that Angels (or Demons, there's actually no difference) are closely associated with both sex and blood. Human sex and human blood. Whatever angels/demons actually are, they appear to have a keen desire for both.

It is entirely possible to evoke the presence of a non-human entity for the purpose of sexual congress. I say this in all seriousness as one who has successfully participated in such an evocation. And with the character in 'Angel Heart' who inspired me to seek such an evocation, I can say in all truth that no human sexual act in my experience ever came remotely close to equalling it in power or satisfaction.

Let no one mistake me. When I say these things it's not done for effect; it's not done to convey an image or an impression. It's not done to enhance a reputation.

I say these things in the same way that I might say "I am qualified to drive." Or, "I am legally married." Or, "I work as a draftsman." I say them as a bare accounting of my experience. KFC is not wrong to believe that what she describes as the 'demonic', or the 'occult', is real. I attest to, and give witness to, the fact of that reality. She is utterly wrong in her interpretation of the meaning of that reality, but I agree with her entirely when she speaks of its existence.

Nor is she wrong when speaking of the power of this reality to sway the human mind - those human minds that are already in fundamental agreement with the nature of that reality, that is. No one is damned against their will. No one is 'sent' to hell. Those who go there, do so because they want to.

Why do they want to? Because the experience of that form of reality so utterly transcends, and through transcendence transforms, the experience of this form of reality that one can't go back. One can't unknow what one has come to know. As the character in 'Angel Heart' declares, sex with the Demon was the best sex she'd ever known, and every lover she might ever take afterward will be a failure in comparison. She knows she's doomed to a life of sexual dis-satisfaction but she doesn't care. Because to know once, and in perfect completeness, is better than a lifetime of imposture and deceit.

One scandal of Christian mysticism is its overt comparison of the mystical knowledge of God to sexual knowledge. When the Christian mystic 'knows' God he or she does so in the sense that Noah 'knew ' his daughters, in the way that Adam 'knew' Eve, in the way that David and Solomon both alike 'knew' their concubines. Mystics of the Christian tradition know their God sexually. Read Teresa of Avila, look at the sculpture of her in the throes of 'knowing' God, read her account of being penetrated by the spear of God. The sexual content of these experiences, and of the experiences of Hildegard of Tubingen, of Julian of Norwich, of a plethora of other female Christian anchorites and Prophetesses, is undeniably sexual in its nature.

That these experiences are divorced from the commonplace expression of sexuality is equally undeniable. But that doesn't mean that the language that describes them is not sexual - nor does it mean that other, less ascetic, forms of that expression aren't available. Those other, less ascetic, forms are the forms that I have sought out and experienced.

I agree with KFC, wholeheartedly, when she attests to the reality of the 'demonic'. Demons do indeed exist and they walk among us. I however celebrate what terrifies her, because the 'demonic' is nothing but the 'angelic' perceived from a different angle. We each imagine hell, and heaven, in our own image. And in the end, each of us will get exactly what we most truly want. If we imagine, and desire, judgment to be the only possible outcome to human existence, judgment is what we will get - and woe betide us if we are not perfect in whatever way we imagine perfection to be constituted.


If we imagine, as I do, some other outcome entirely, then some other outcome is what we will get. And again, woe betide us if we are not perfect in all the ways that we imagine perfection to be necessary. God will not judge us, because we aren't important enough to be judged. But we will, and I don't hesitate to believe that the judgment we visit on ourselves will be infinitely more harsh than anything some objectively existent deity might condescend to pour upon our heads.

We know nothing. We judge everything. And with the measure that we pour out to others so shall it be poured out to us.

I'll see you in hell, bitch.

To: zoologist

myself, I'd much have preferred Lilith to Eve.