Not A Good Crowd To Hang With
Published on January 23, 2008 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Religion
Along with faithful angels we also have in the spiritual realm evil angels or as most commonly referred to as demons.

Other than Lucifer (Satan) and a demon named Legion I'm not aware of any personal names for demons although in the Hebrew there are names for fallen angels in general.

The Hebrew word for "devils" is shedim. They also are known as sair and satyr. The word "he goat" is satyr in Hebrew and is thought to be tied into demon creatures of some sort. Sometimes in scripture the evil angels are referred to as the Devil's angels. They are also called familiar spirits, evil spirits, wicked spirits, seducing spirits or unclean spirits. Sometimes just the name demon is used.

In the case of Mary Magdalene she was possessed with seven demons. The word for "demon" in Greek is daimon and is found more than 75 times in the Greek NT.

So who are these demons? Some believe they are spirits of deceased wicked men. Some believe they are spirits of a pre-Adamic race. But there are no scriptural support whatsoever for these views.

The most logical biblical conclusion is that these demons are none other than the fallen angels Lucifer took with him when he defected from the side of God. We do know from scripture that there are unchained fallen angels who have a certain amount of freedom and also chained fallen angels who have no freedom at the present time.

There seems to be an organization and rank of these fallen angels. Scripture indicates that Satan's kingdom of evil angels is as organized as God's faithful angels. As we know this is a spiritual battle between the two so organization and rank does make sense.

Fallen angels, like good angels, are invisible spirit beings. However, on occasion they do manifest themselves. In Revelation we see three passages which offer a description of these corrupted creatures. Hideous.

So what are they like? Well we know they have personalities. They have names, they speak, and they are intelligent. They know who Jesus is. They know of a future damnation and they know the saved from the unsaved. They are able to formulate a Satan-centered systematic theology. They experience emotion such as fear and disdain. They possess great strength.

Their activities include their working to oppose God's purpose by executing Satan's program instead. They disseminate false doctrine, and they afflict human beings with all sorts of mental, emotional and physical problems. They can possess human beings and will in the latter days inflict grievous torture upon unsaved mankind during the tribulation.

Their destiny is to be judged by Christ and his church and will ultimately be cast into the Lake of Fire forever. Paul warned us that in the final days of the church age, demonic doctrines will prevail. I believe that is what is happening today. He said:

"Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils." 1 Timothy 4:1.

Christ also asked in Luke 18:8 that when he returns "Will I even find faith on the earth?" So I believe when he does return not many living will be true authentic Christians still standing and waiting for him. He won't have that many to rapture out of here. The demons will have been busily making sure as many as can be will be under the grip of their master Satan.






Comments (Page 1)
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on Jan 23, 2008
Again, KFC, you've delivered a most interesting article and one filled with information that we should know about and take heed of, especially ending with Christ's all important question,

"Will I even find faith on the earth?"



The most logical biblical conclusion is that these demons are none other than the fallen angels Lucifer took with him when he defected from the side of God.


That's my understanding as well.

God created all the angels good and holy. But they did not continue in that state for having free will, a great many of them abused it, lost the grace of God, and became wicked. They rebelled against God, and Lucifer, their leader, said, "We shall be like unto the Most High; we shall place our throne above the stars." Then there was a great strife in Heaven, and Michael and the other angels who had remained faithful to God fought against the bad and rebellious spirits and cast them from Heaven down to Hell.

God's justice was manifested by the punishment of the fallen angels and the reward of the good and faithful ones. The angels who remained faithful were rewarded with everlasting happiness of ever seeing the face of God in Heaven which they could never lose. Satan and his followers are rejected by God and banished from Him for ever and ever. 2St.Peter 2:4, "God spared not the angels that sinned; but delivered them drawn down by infernal ropes to the lower hell, unto torments to be reserved unto judgment."

What was the cause of the fallen angels' disobedience?

Instead of giving glory to God from whom they had received all things, they became proud of their gifts, and with their leader, said, We will ascend above the heights of the clouds, we will be like the Most High" Is. 14:14. Therefore Sacred Scripture says, "Pride is the beginning of all sin." Ecc. 10:15.

What does that mean to us?

God punishes us according to our deserts and He never punishes too severely. If therefore, He condemned the fallen angels to the eternal torments of Hell, we can see what a terrible evil sin is in His sight. Just think what befell the angels through sin.

Before, they were beloved of God, most beautiful, holy, rich in happiness and glory....after their fall caused by sin of pride, they have been enemies of God, horrible, hideous and eternally miserable devils. The evil of sin changed angels into devils and cast them into Hell.



on Jan 23, 2008
Their activities include their working to oppose God's purpose by executing Satan's program instead.


The Scriptures mention Satan as the tempter of our first parents, of David, of our Lord in the desert, of Judas, and of all mankind.

Satan's and the other evil spirits ability to tempt us is great, but according to St. Paul God is faithful and will allow us to be tempted above that which we are able to bear.

Many people say that they do not believe in the devil and that is quite in keeping with his wishes. Christ definitely warns us against the evil influence of Satan.

on Jan 23, 2008
Satan's and the other evil spirits ability to tempt us is great, but according to St. Paul God is faithful and will allow us to be tempted above that which we are able to bear.


THis should read....God is faithful and will NOT allow us to be tempted above that which we are able to bear with His grace.
on Jan 23, 2008
I'd love to read your take on Demonologists KFC.

Ya know the show Ghost Hunters on the Sci Fi channel? Well, they were recently here at Wright-Patt. We had a meet and greet at the club. There are a couple places on base they were "checking out" but they weren't telling anything at the meet and greet...tight lipped boys!

Anyway, they employ a Demonologist. I was wondering where he gets his information. And if you have any theories on the practice.



on Jan 24, 2008
Emp is Satan


I knew it!
on Jan 24, 2008
The Hebrew word for "devils" is shedim. They also are known as sair and satyr. The word "he goat" is satyr in Hebrew and is thought to be tied into demon creatures of some sort.


I don't think "satyr" is a Hebrew word. Seems more like a Greek loan to me. The root STR means "slap". ("Lisator" is "to slap".) But "Satyr" has four consonants (and one written vowel). (Don't count on me to get the vowels right, I am no Israeli.)

The Hebrew Wikipedia article on "satyr" says:

הסאטירים, במיתולוגיה היוונית, היו בריות שמחציתן אדם תיש

("The satyrim [satyrs], in Ionic [Greek] mythology, [some form of "to be"] creatures half man half he goat.")

http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A1%D7%90%D7%98%D7%99%D7%A8

The satyr as a demonic creature is a feature of Greek mythology, not Judaeo-Christian tradition.

(I tried figuring out what "sair" is, but couldn't find a Hebrew word S'IR. Hebrew "satyr", which I think is a Greek loan, is S'TIR.)

I think you are diving way too much into pagan mythology here!

P.S.: Shedim is right.

on Jan 24, 2008
The satyr as a demonic creature is a feature of Greek mythology, not Judaeo-Christian tradition.

Correct...though not necessarily demonic. Just party loving and horny for nymphs.

~Zoo
on Jan 24, 2008
Correct...though not necessarily demonic. Just party loving and horny for nymphs.


I don't really know what a "demon" is in the classical Greek sense. I went to a humanist high school (i.e. a Latin school) and was supposed to learn these things, but finally decided, before starting Greek in the 9th grade, that it was irrelevant knowledge.

IOW you are probably right and I really don't know that much about Greek mythology.

Wikipedia told me that a satyr is something Greek and mythological.
on Jan 24, 2008
Hebrew vowels can be a bitch to figure.


That's not all of it; they usually derive from the word class (i.e. noun or verb etc.). Ashkenazi (European) Hebrew uses different vowels than Israeli (middle-eastern) Hebrew. When I have to guess the vowels of a word I only know the root of, I mix them up. I am not a fluent speaker. I just learned for fun.

You ever get into the study of gematria, Leuki? WWW Link I feel my brain smokin' when I think that hard anymore, but it was a wild ride when I studied it in earnest. Perhaps you'll enjoy it too.


Some of it is nonsense, I think. The Wikipedia article says:

"Although there are twenty-two letters, there are twenty-seven numerals necessary to express each number up to 999 (one through nine, ten through ninety, one hundred through nine hundred). The mystical Hebrew numeric system notes that the missing final five letters of the numeral system match exactly with the five 'sofit (word-final) alternate forms of the Hebrew letters."

But the Hebrew alphabet is just one version of an alphabet used for Phoenician, Aramaic, Arabic and other Semitic languages. It is also actually the Aramaic alphabet, whereas Hebrew used to use a different version.

The problem is that different versions of the alphabet have different numbers of different forms of the same letter. (But all of them stand for the same numbers if put in Abjadi order.) Arabic has different forms for stand-alone, beginning-of-word, middle, and end-of-word positions for most letters. Hebrew has different forms for five letters for end-of-word positions. I don't think Phoenician had any special forms of any letters. I don't know if the original Hebrew (not the current Aramaic) script had the same five different forms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abjad_numerals

Notice that the first 22 or so numbers are the same using Arabic script (Alef is 1, Yud is 10 etc.). Notice that Arabic uses different letter forms (Ghayin is a different pronunciation of Ayin, in Arabic it is written as an Ayin with a dot) for the remaining numerals "covered" by the sofit letter forms.

This suggests that there was an original agreement about which letter stands for what numeral before the scripts split. Later each script used its own extra forms for the last few numbers (600 to 1000).

Hence study of the numbers made of those words assumes that there is a message hidden, that the two scripts (ancient Hebrew and current Hebrew/Aramaic) had the same letter forms even though other scripts using the same alphabet do not, and that no letter was ever changed.

Also, Hebrew spelling changed between older and newer parts of the Bible. Some long vowels were finally written, using consonants Y and V, changing the spelling of words (but not names, which kept the old spelling). This means that a word that used to mean, say, 1746, could suddenly have a different value, and the same sentence, repeated, would give different results, solely because of the reform.

(Modern Hebrew uses the same spelling as the newer Biblical Hebrew of 2500 to 3000 years ago.)

DISCLAIMER: I am not a scholar. The above could all be totally wrong.
on Jan 24, 2008
I'd love to read your take on Demonologists KFC.


I confess I don't know much about them but from a scriptural POV I would say it's something not to mess around with.

Ya know the show Ghost Hunters on the Sci Fi channel?


I'm not sure. Is that the show with the two brothers who go around fighting demons and stuff? Or are you talking like real life Ghost Hunters? The show I watch I think is called Supernatural and is just a drama on TV.

There are a couple places on base they were "checking out" but they weren't telling anything at the meet and greet...tight lipped boys!


So are you saying you have demons at Wright-Patt?

Anyway, they employ a Demonologist. I was wondering where he gets his information.


me too. Let me know what you find out. I really don't know anything about Demonologists.

I don't think "satyr" is a Hebrew word. Seems more like a Greek loan to me. The root STR means "slap". ("Lisator" is "to slap".) But "Satyr" has four consonants (and one written vowel). (Don't count on me to get the vowels right, I am no Israeli.)


Well it comes from the OT reading of Lev 17:7 which says:

"And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils after whom they have gone a whoring........."

and:

But wild beasts of the dessert shall lie there and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures and owls shall dwell there, and SATYRS shall dance there. Isaiah 13:21.

I did some checking and found this by a Fred Dickason from "Angels, Elect and Evil pg 152:

"The Hebrews were to sacrifice at the altar of the Tabernacle and not to sacrifice in the desert to "he-goats." Jeroboam I appointed worship for the Seirim (2 Chron 11:15) and Josiah broke down the high places of the gates which is to be read Seirim."
on Jan 24, 2008
Leauki,

going back to that Isaiah passage reading it in context seems pretty interesting. It says in 13:19-22:

And Babylon, the glory of Kingdoms the beauty of the Chaldees excellency shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there. But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures and owls shall dwell there and satyrs shall dance there. And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses and dragons in their pleasant palaces; and her time is near to come and her days shall not be prolonged.

Sounds like a dreadful place to me. Much evil is there and with the modern capture of one of the most evil men in our lifetime it only adds to the speculation of evil in this area.

The decline of Babylon occurred in stages. By 20 BC it was described as a vast desolation. Even the desert wanderer (the Arabian) shunned the site because it became an omen of ill fortune. If you continued to read on you'd see the prediction that Israel would outlast even the conquerors of Babylon and would return to her land.
on Jan 24, 2008
I'm not sure. Is that the show with the two brothers who go around fighting demons and stuff? Or are you talking like real life Ghost Hunters? The show I watch I think is called Supernatural and is just a drama on TV.


Different show than what Tova's talking about. "Ghost Hunters" is a show of real people that go to supposedly haunted places and see what's up, debunking some, and leaving some interesting thoughts in your mind on others.

In regards to Supernatural, however, it's one of the best shows on TV, eh? I freakin' love it.
on Jan 24, 2008
Different show than what Tova's talking about. "Ghost Hunters" is a show of real people that go to supposedly haunted places and see what's up, debunking some, and leaving some interesting thoughts in your mind on others.


ahhhhhh now I remember. Sure I've heard of it. I've not watched it tho.

In regards to Supernatural, however, it's one of the best shows on TV, eh? I freakin' love it.


me too. It's one of my favorites. hahahahaha hey SC....we found common ground....again.

on Jan 24, 2008

Well it comes from the OT reading of Lev 17:7 which says:

"And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils after whom they have gone a whoring........."


I find the passage but cannot find "devils". Turns out a word for he-goat is "sa`ir" (I looked it up), but I cannot see a relation to devils.

Sa`ir ("he-goat") is Sin Ayin Yud Resh.

Satyr (the Greek figure) is Samekh Alef Tet Yud Resh. Three of five letters are different.

You have found the scapegoat story. The Hebrew text speaks simply of "he-goats", but it is translated as "goat-demons".

Wikipedia covers the text here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azazel

This text does not refer to devils or demons as something that exists but is about G-d commanding Moses to change previous customs. Semitic tribes believed in goat-demons living in the desert. G-d commands Moses and the Israelites not to offer sacrifices to those any more. They are not real.

"Satyr" is a good translation for a he-goat that represents a demon, since the Greek concept of a satyr is similar to that. But it has nothing to do with Jewish or Christian mythology. It's what people believed in before scripture was revealed.


and:

But wild beasts of the dessert shall lie there and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures and owls shall dwell there, and SATYRS shall dance there. Isaiah 13:21.


My translation also uses the word "satyr". The Hebrew is, again, "sa`ir" ("sa`irim", Plural). The sentence is, transliterated (badly):

"[...], vsa`irim yirakdu sham."

The root RKD means "dance", the form of the word is a future tense. The sentence thus says:

"[...], and he-goats will [or "shall"] dance here."

It doesn't say anything about devils and I don't know why "satyr" is used in the translation. The other animals mentioned in the passage are quite normal, except for the dragon. More below.


I did some checking and found this by a Fred Dickason from "Angels, Elect and Evil pg 152:

"The Hebrews were to sacrifice at the altar of the Tabernacle and not to sacrifice in the desert to "he-goats." Jeroboam I appointed worship for the Seirim (2 Chron 11:15) and Josiah broke down the high places of the gates which is to be read Seirim."


Yes, that refers again to the difference between sacrificing to a real god and sacrificing to the "goat-demons" of old.



going back to that Isaiah passage reading it in context seems pretty interesting. It says in 13:19-22:

And Babylon, the glory of Kingdoms the beauty of the Chaldees excellency shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there. But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures and owls shall dwell there and satyrs shall dance there. And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses and dragons in their pleasant palaces; and her time is near to come and her days shall not be prolonged.

Sounds like a dreadful place to me. Much evil is there and with the modern capture of one of the most evil men in our lifetime it only adds to the speculation of evil in this area.


This is indeed an interesting passage. Problem is, it mentions animals that have weird names in Hebrew. The owl part in particular confuses me. I find "house" and "full of" but not "owls", although my translation mentions "owls" like yours. So I looked it up in a Luther Bible (the 500 year old German translation of the Hebrew text) and find the word "ochim" untranslated. To me it means "brothers" (although the first vowel is wrong). It might mean "owls", I don't know.

Either way, this also doesn't refer to devils or demons as existing creatures.

Ironically, it simply describes a war in Iraq.

As you point out, the "Arab" is a desert dweller. It refers to a nomad from the desert, who has low standards but would still not live there.

In Aramaic and Hebrew, "erev" means "evening" and "west". The root is `RB. An "Arab" (same root) is someone from the west, as seen from Iraq (where Aramaic was/is spoken). The bedouins lived west of Iraq in the Syrian and Arabian desert.

You are right about the decline of Babylon. However, I don't see any evil angels or demons involved in any way in the text, apart from being mentioned as something that Jews are not allowed to sacrifice to.

I don't know what else a "satyr" is, but it is not a Hebrew word for goat or devil. It is Greek.




on Jan 24, 2008
I don't know what else a "satyr" is, but it is not a Hebrew word for goat or devil. It is Greek.


hmmmmm well it could be I suppose. I'd have to check further....but it is in the OT as I showed you in Isaiah so I figured it was Hebrew not GK unless it has something to do with the Greek Septuigint. Not sure but I was pretty sure "He-goat" is satyr in the Hebrew. Do you have a Hebrew Professor you can ask? I do have a contact in the Hebrew and Greek but am unsure if I can get ahold of her.

I actually have a Greek Bible with the English side by side somewhere in this house but it's in a box and I have no idea which box. By the time I find it we'll be way long gone from this subject and I'm not going to take the time to go thru my gazilion boxes.

I got "satyr" from a College Professor who spent his life studying and teaching the scriptures. He put down Seirim, sair and satyr as all names for fallen angels. And since Satyr is right in Isaiah I have no reason to doubt him.

I find Hebrew terribly confusing and hard to translate. I rely heavily all those that went before us in translating the scriptures from Hebrew to Greek and then the English. Greek is much easier.





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