Published on November 1, 2007 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Politics
Well here you go for those who didn't see this op-ed in the NY Times. It's the beginning of organizing the evangelical vote at a meeting in Salt Lake City. The purpose was to discuss what would happen if Giuliani or another GOP candidate who doesn't represent them is elected to be the nominee. It was titled "The Values Test."

by James C. Dobson, Ph.D., founder and chairman

Dr. Dobson says winning an election is important, but not at the expense of our core beliefs.

Reports have surfaced in the press about a meeting that occurred last Saturday in Salt Lake City involving more than 50 pro-family leaders. The purpose of the gathering was to discuss our response if both the Democratic and Republican Parties nominate standard-bearers who are supportive of abortion. Although I was neither the convener nor the moderator of the meeting, I’d like to offer several brief clarifications about its outcome and implications.

After two hours of deliberation, we voted on a resolution that can be summarized as follows: If neither of the two major political parties nominates an individual who pledges himself or herself to the sanctity of human life, we will join others in voting for a minor-party candidate. Those agreeing with the proposition were invited to stand. The result was almost unanimous.

The other issue discussed at length concerned the advisability of creating a third party if Democrats and Republicans do indeed abandon the sanctity of human life and other traditional family values. Though there was some support for the proposal, no consensus emerged.

Speaking personally, and not for the organization I represent or the other leaders gathered in Salt Lake City, I firmly believe that the selection of a president should begin with a recommitment to traditional moral values and beliefs. Those include the sanctity of human life, the institution of marriage, and other inviolable pro-family principles. Only after that determination is made can the acceptability of a nominee be assessed.

The other approach, which I find problematic, is to choose a candidate according to the likelihood of electoral success or failure. Polls don’t measure right and wrong; voting according to the possibility of winning or losing can lead directly to the compromise of one’s principles. In the present political climate, it could result in the abandonment of cherished beliefs that conservative Christians have promoted and defended for decades. Winning the presidential election is vitally important, but not at the expense of what we hold most dear.

One other clarification is germane, even though unrelated to the meeting in Salt Lake City. The secular news media has been reporting in recent months that the conservative Christian movement is hopelessly fractured and internally antagonistic. The Los Angeles Times reported on Monday, for example, that supporters of traditional family values are rapidly “splintering.” That is not true. The near unanimity in Salt Lake City is evidence of much greater harmony than supposed. Admittedly, differences of opinion exist among us about our choices for president.

That divergence is entirely reasonable, now just over a year before the national election. It is hardly indicative of a “splintering” of old alliances. If the major political parties decide to abandon conservative principles, the cohesion of pro-family advocates will be all too apparent in 2008.



Comments (Page 2)
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on Nov 02, 2007
Do you really think she can destroy this country that thoroughly in four years, Gid? How will she do it?
on Nov 02, 2007
So you're willing to sell the country down the river for four years to bring that about?


Basically that's how these sillies roll.

Funny when you think about it. It simultaneously makes me laugh and cry, because I think this attitude is ridiculously unhelpful (which causes the gigglies), but I can see where it's leading - to the Clinton White House ver. 2.0 (which causes the tears).
on Nov 02, 2007
Is there anything she can do in those four years that can't be undone? I don't want her to run at all.

Politics suck. You can't even introduce a third candidate that you like, because then you're giving the election to the person most unlike you.
on Nov 02, 2007
Do you really think she can destroy this country that thoroughly in four years, Gid? How will she do it?


Well, all she needs to do is introduce legislation that basically creates a relationship between the US and EU member nations similar to what the EU member nations already has, and we will have lost national sovereignty. The UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, a project Ms. Clinton has long endorsed, could be voted into US law, and at that point, the Christian church basically goes underground because taking your children to church would basically be religious indoctrination. And she has cronies in Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and their ilk to back her in this.

She could then further implement gun registration, essentially extending a ban not unlike that in SF to the nation at large. She could wipe out religious freedom in one fell swoop by subjecting us to mandatory physicians' visits under her mandatory health care. She could increase the size and scope of CPS and further advance the unConstitutional child theft that has gone on for so long. Do you think four years is an acceptable amount of time for a family to go without their child while the parents wait for the injustices to get rectified?

There's plenty Hillary can do, jythier, and I believe plenty she WILL do. But keep convincing yourself you're doing the right thing by voting for someone who only holds to your narrow interpretation of how politics should be run.
on Nov 02, 2007
Well, by asserting "I'M not compromising", you are implying that the rest of us ARE. Which is something I resent.


I dont read that. I dont hold the same views as KFC, so I know I am not commpromising, and never took her view to indicate I was. I know she would like me to beleive the same, but so far, she has not scowled at me for not following her beleifs.

I applaud her for her resolve. LIke you, I dont necessarily like it, but I would rather she not compromise and remain true to her core than to become just another hand me down in politics. After all, it is not my face or your face she sees in the mirror every morning.
on Nov 02, 2007
but I would rather she not compromise and remain true to her core than to become just another hand me down in politics.


I just think we will suffer far more than we realize if Hillary is elected.

We'll all sit around the porch saying "remember when we were FREE?"
on Nov 02, 2007
I just think we will suffer far more than we realize if Hillary is elected.


oh, I know that! But what I see with this campaign against Dobson and his followers is exactly what I dont like about the liberals. "My way or the high way". Yes, it will hurt a lot when they sit out and dont vote for Rudy or Mitt. But I would rather have them on my side, than a football stadium full of Kos or Sheehans.
on Nov 02, 2007
After all, it is not my face or your face she sees in the mirror every morning.


Geeeesh do we have to talk about faces, mirror and mornings? Not a pleasant subject....  

We'll all sit around the porch saying "remember when we were FREE?"


aaawwwwhhhh com'on. I agree she's bad but there are checks and balances here. She's only got four years (this is not Cuba)if she EVEN gets in. Gah!! I hope not. Where's your faith Gid? Give it to God and let him deal with it...and her! No matter what happens it ain't over until HE says so.

remember when we were FREE?"


well look at it this way Gid, it could make for great song material....  





on Nov 02, 2007
Just read this by Henry Blackaby and couldn't help but think of our subject matter here: He said:

"Do not place your hope in humanity, but steadfastly trust in the One who has already defeated your enemy."


on Nov 03, 2007
aaawwwwhhhh com'on. I agree she's bad but there are checks and balances here.


With a DEMOCRAT Congress, KFC? Nope. If she has a Democratic majority, she'll be able to pass everything she wants to.

She's only got four years (this is not Cuba)if she EVEN gets in.


Why do I keep hearing "It's ok, we'll just change all the laws once she's out of office? It's not that simple, folks. It is very rare that we get back liberties once we've surrendered them. And if we have made our government into an international government (as I believe will happen; Bill has long been lobbying for secretary generalship of the UN), it will not be so easy to undo.

Right now, KFC, THIS DAY, there are over 500,000 children in US foster care. Over 97% of their parents will never be criminally proven guilty of anything, yet only 44% of them will ever see their parents again. That's over 250,000 children surrendered to the system, who will grow up in a cycle of poverty, abuse, and death because abuse is more than twice as prevalent in the foster care system as in the homes of natural parents, and death is more than TEN TIMES more prevalent, Hillary and a Democratic congress will almost certainly expand that system.

And you say "what's four years?" Four years of having their children stripped away is a lifetime. It's the difference between an innocent grade schooler and a wrist cutting, promiscuous teen who has given up because they feel their parents don't care, as they don't see the true reason they're locked away in a foster care system.

You call yourself pro-life, KFC, and I believe you. But what about the lives of those children raised by Hillary's "village" because their parents couldn't afford to pay the electric bill?

Where's your faith Gid? Give it to God and let him deal with it...


Yup. There's that condescension again.

You just confirmed it. You're secretly hoping Hillary ushers in Armageddon. Good show.
on Nov 03, 2007
With a DEMOCRAT Congress, KFC? Nope. If she has a Democratic majority, she'll be able to pass everything she wants to.


Yes, but again that is if she even gets in (I doubt she will) and second of all how many seats will be up for grabs in the next year?

You call yourself pro-life, KFC, and I believe you. But what about the lives of those children raised by Hillary's "village" because their parents couldn't afford to pay the electric bill?


I can't answer this question Gid. I am not aware of the numbers in the foster care system, now and say 10 years ago without doing some HW. I do know that we have loving parents around us that are involved in foster care. Two families here in my chuch have adopted at least 3 of these children. They are very fortunate children who in very good homes.

Yup. There's that condescension again.


You say condescension...I say encouragement. We say that around here alot. Where's your faith? To help wake us up to remember who/what to focus on. Christians are to encourage one another; spur each other on. It's not said in a negative tone. Sorry if it seemed that way.

Sooooo exactly how empty is that glass Gid.....  ?

You just confirmed it. You're secretly hoping Hillary ushers in Armageddon. Good show.


not necessarily. I mean if it happens it happens. God is in control. Whether we vote for Hillary or not. God has a predetermined time when the end will be the end and he will not be a second late. It has nothing to do with our voting practice. It's clear by scripture that it is he who sets the kings upon their thrones. He will allow or disallow according to his plan, not ours.

Besides all this? I am totally convinced the "right wing" is NOT going to get Rudy elected. That's why I keep saying I think Huckabee is the guy. I really DON'T think it will be Rudy anyway. He has too much baggage. Time will tell. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. But right now, I just can't see or believe it.









on Nov 03, 2007
Well, all she needs to do is introduce legislation that basically creates a relationship between the US and EU member nations similar to what the EU member nations already has, and we will have lost national sovereignty.


oh, please. I haven't seen 1 EU nation actually loosing their sovereignty. And such agreement would have to be ratified on a scale never seen before by many legislation in the USA.

I see a lot of "fear spreading" about Mrs Clinton over here, a lot based on simple propaganda. I mean, she can't do worst than Bush did.

After all, what Bush declared BEFORE his presidency and what he did DURING it are two different things. Why it wouldn't be the same with Clinton?
on Nov 04, 2007
I see a lot of "fear spreading" about Mrs Clinton over here, a lot based on simple propaganda. I mean, she can't do worst than Bush did.


See, that's another rationale that I consider mindboggling. "She can't leave a bigger mess than Bush did so let's just elect her".

The truth is, cikomyr, I view George W. Bush as one of our worst presidents ever, if not THE worst. I don't view an alternative as acceptable simply because they can't do worse. You're going to have to do better than that!

KFC,

If all of the conservative Christians "take a walk" as Dobson has suggested, then the Democrats will win IN A LANDSLIDE because the vote is split. I honestly believe that is exactly what Dobson wants, and every pamphlet, book, or tape I have from his organization is now headed for the landfill.
on Nov 04, 2007
The truth is, cikomyr, I view George W. Bush as one of our worst presidents ever, if not THE worst. I don't view an alternative as acceptable simply because they can't do worse. You're going to have to do better than that!


Not my point. I mean, many people here are describing her as the worst thing that can happen to the USA, which IS mindboggling, to say the truth, as they just come out of one of the worst administration to run this country. The worst thing that can happen already happened. Tell me HOW the USA could have been (rationnaly) even weaker now than they actually are?

Hillary Clinton seems to be a pretty decent administrator, and she manages to lead in good ways. She also probably will have both house under her, and a possible filibuster-breaker majority in Senate, making the governement the most united ever in the past 50 years.
on Nov 04, 2007
She also probably will have both house under her, and a possible filibuster-breaker majority in Senate, making the governement the most united ever in the past 50 years.


Meaning that the politics of ONE political persuasion will dominate. That's never a good thing, cikomyr. Ever.

I am a firm believer that one reason Bill Clinton's administration enjoyed such success was because the President and the Congress were controlled by different parties. This meant there had to be negotiation to get anything past the table. It started out rough, but most people agree it worked rather effectively.

While I am admitting to the hyperbolic nature of this illustration up front, cikomyr, I will say Hitler was a good administrator. The point I am making in saying this is not to equate Hillary with Hitler, but to say that a good administrator does not necessarily mean that the end result is a government we desire.

Tell me HOW the USA could have been (rationnaly) even weaker now than they actually are?


Easy. By continuing with an abyssmally failed foreign policy (Ms. Clinton, for your information, has rubber stamped virtually every foreign policy decision of this administration!), and implementing an equally disastrous domestic policy. By continuing the push towards censorship (HILLARY has been leading the charge towards censorship against video games, and one need look no further than Jena to see that free speech is pretty much on the outs in this country, and the Dems are at the helm of the ship driving it out!) as well as making criminals out of those who do not carry health insurance (yes, that is the Hillary "plan"; she is the largest recipient of money from the health care lobby by FAR), Hillary can very well make things, not only worse, but MUCH more so.

But I suppose you'll just call that spreading fear and half truth. After all, you are the expert on US government, are you not?
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