I was taking a leave of absense from this thread. I mean, I already insulted every other religion. Just because I believe the other religions are inferior just because Jesus is so awesome doesn't mean that others believe that, and since truth is relative these days, what's true for me isn't necessarily true for you.

Relative truth is false. There's only one truth, and that is found in Jesus. That's why Christianity is better. That's why the others are inferior. But you would say that's not objective, it's subjective. Can it be proven objectively? Not by me. But when you're dead, you'll know. I wish I could prove it objectively, so that you all would believe. But I bet even if I could, and did, you would say "That might be true for you, but it's not true for me." Satan really hit gold coming up with that garbage.

Jythier opines: Relative truth is false. There's only one truth, and that is found in Jesus. That's why Christianity is better. That's why the others are inferior. But you would say that's not objective, it's subjective. Can it be proven objectively? Not by me. But when you're dead, you'll know. I wish I could prove it objectively, so that you all would believe. But I bet even if I could, and did, you would say "That might be true for you, but it's not true for me." Satan really hit gold coming up with that garbage.

Goodness. A clear statement of purely subjective judgementalism coming from a Christian. Jythier, I could care less what you believe as long as you behave yourself. We are what we do, not what we think, believe, or wish for. This is an existential reality. So, if you are Christian, modeling yourself after your master, then please behave in accordance with his model. Christian get the worst rep because of this very thing. If your master teaches you to love your enemies, please do so. If your master teaches you to behave with deep compassion and love, offering your the shirt off your back to a beggar, then please do so...even if he is unsightly, filled with lice, or an athiest. The forms of Christianity I am afflicted by are not these models ofthe Christ. They are the ones who say believe this man and that's really all you have to do. We can rationalize killing, stealing, hate, and all manner of other atrocuities in the master's name, as long as we believe. Now that is garbage..

Be well.

You have completely missed the mark here. The point of contention was the asserted inferiority of the moral standards the religions impart to their adherents, and you have totally avoided that point even though you yourself made the claim, and has nothing at all to do with relative truth. You made the assertion and when called on it decide to dodge it? Perhaps that's because you know you can't defend it? Why dodge it and fall back on the relative truth argument instead?

I'd like to see an objective statement as to exactly what moral standards are inferior in the mentioned religions as compared to the moral standards of Christianity and how exactly they are inferior. Relative truth is by definition subjective and therefore has nothing at all to do with it even though you and a couple of others continue to fall back on it, making highly subjective statements instead of directly addressing the point of contention.

To me this indicates that you know full well that you are wrong on this point but stubbornly refuse to acknowledge it. It really isn't that hard to simply say "I misspoke and that's not what I was really trying to say" and then restate your actual position.

Tangential to the current vibe of the thread, but relating to the article here . . .

Do you think these guys will sing the God Hates Fags song?

I was misinterpretted as trying to say they were inferior. My actual position was that they were different, not better or worse. Which lead me to the conclusion that if the government tries to stand on many different moral standards, there will be no one clear path for it anymore.

My belief that Christianity is the best was only incidental to that point, and is based on nothing but my own opinion, and no concrete knowledge of any other religions, which is why I cannot defend it at this point. This left me with the relative truth argument, which I know at least a little about.

Do you think these guys will sing the God Hates Fags song?

I found the song very offensive SC.

These men that are starting this tour (Maine first in Sept) are sincerely wanting to let others know the truth. They have lived the lifestyle for years and want to minister to those that want to get out but are not sure how or if they even can.

This left me with the relative truth argument, which I know at least a little about

Nice to have you back Jythier. Now it's three of a kind vs three of a kind....lol.

I kind of look at it relative truth this way....truth is 1 + 1 =2. That's true. But for others 1+1 can equal 4 or it can equal 5 or it can equal 100. It's all how you look at it. Relatively speaking it can be anything. I can't help but remember Pilate asking, "What is truth?" He asked the question with "truth" standing right in front of him.

I think any religion or belief system without Christ as God in the flesh is inferior Jythier...I think you said it ok. God said in Jeremiah
"For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the FOUNTAIN of living waters and hewed them out cisterns, BROKEN CISTERNS, that can hold no water." 2:13

He's saying here the people have left him for other gods that are useless. As Christians we ask the same thing of others....why are you choosing the broken cisterns that collect stagnant, putrid water instead of opting for the fresh spring of living water? To us this would be inferior. Christ said this:

"If any man thirst let him come to me and drink. He that believes on me as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." John 7:37

if the government tries to stand on many different moral standards, there will be no one clear path for it anymore.

yes, and I think the founders made that clear many times with their statements. They believed also that if we stand for everything we will fall for anything. We will fall and fail miserably trying to please everyone. There's a reason why we see only Jewish/Christian scriptures on everything in Washington. Hinduism and Buddhism are much older than Christianity and Islam was alive and well during the writing of our Constitution and Declaration. Why not include those scriptures on the doors to the buildings and displayed on the monuments as well? Why did the first Senate Prayer that lasted for hours and hours BTW in a Choir Loft not invoke all these other gods? Why are we going in that direction now, when they NEVER did? And for good reason. Are we smarter than they? Are we more holy than they were? Are we nicer? Or is it we just want all mention of the one true God out of the picture? Isn't that really what this is all about? Let's please and appease all but God.

Satan's not even subtle anymore. He's working right out in the open now. He's got the heart and minds of the people. His job is getting much easier. That's my two cents....I'll get off my soapbox now.

I can't help it. Like I've said before, I'm very Patriotic and God and Country are important to me and in that order.

We are what we do, not what we think, believe, or wish for

well what we do starts with a thought. Everything starts with a thought first. I like to say "Right thinking precedes right living."

The forms of Christianity I am afflicted by are not these models ofthe Christ

I believe it Sodaiho. But surely you've met some sincere Christians over the course of your lifetime?

There are so many that are Christians in word only. If they were tried in a court of law with Christianity listed as their crime, they would never be convicted. Not enough evidence to convict them. Christ said to those that claim they are his...."I never knew you."

They are the ones who say believe this man and that's really all you have to do. We can rationalize killing, stealing, hate, and all manner of other atrocuities in the master's name, as long as we believe. Now that is garbage..

It is. With belief comes change. If there's no change, the belief needs to be questioned and lives need to be examined. It doesn't mean we turn perfect overnight tho. Change takes time. Some quicker than others. Just like newborn babies, some walk at 7 months and others at a year and a half. It's the same with newborn Christians.

Ah now see that's a whole different kettle of fish. You weren't misinterpreted you just didn't say what you actually meant. In actuality the core moral standards of the religions you named are pretty much the same as Christianity. Do not kill, do not steal, etc., so I really don't understand your point or how it relates to the original article.

The United States government operates according to laws not religion as it is not a theocracy so I really don't understand why people should or would feel threatened by this except out of religious bigotry and a desire to establish a theocracy in this country, which is pretty much the desire of all religious extremists. History has shown us that theocracies do not work and only lead to disaster for all concerned.

You and I may well believe that Christianity is the right and true religion even though we may disagree upon the specifics of the organized religion aspect, but that in no way means that we have a right in a free and open society to try and oppress, drive out, or in any other way stifle the religious expression of others who do not agree and who follow a different spiritual path whether it be in a church, mosque, or the Senate. The founding fathers believed in this concept enough to ensure it in our constitution and I happen to agree with their wisdom.

It has nothing to do with the relative merits of religion but rather with the concept of freedom for all citizens and that is something I will always defend.

The problem was when the Supreme Court started overturning the laws it didn't like, rather than the laws that were unconstitutional. Our Constitution is interpretted. It is only as strong as those who interpret it.

As I said before, between 'Love your neighbor' and 'Do no harm' is a large gap, and it is truly what made this country great. People shouldn't be forced into believing, they should have the freedom to believe that they should 'do no harm'. I'm fine with that. But when people DID love their neighbor, you could visit them. Now everyone has no trespassing signs, and if you bring them food, they'll think it's poisoned and won't eat it anyway. Everyone's suspicious of everyone else.

So do I, but I find a whole heap of supporters for this type of message . . . and I find it deplorable. But when you said it was an evangelical concert, this song popped into my head, and I could see the crowds lining up for it.

Wow. That song WAS offensive. I didn't know you could GET that offensive. Why did I watch that? Why is it stuck in my head now?

Yet I repeat: There are plenty of people supportive of such a message, and who believe that that's just the way God wants us to be.

Why? 'Cuz it's catchy.

If you listen to it again, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be satire. Biting, subtle satire, but satire nonetheless. There's too many off-the-cuff gay references to not be, I think. But this band's message boards are filled with people spewing similar hate-filled invectives, but without the subtle irony involved. Sick, people, sick.

Are there really? Who are these people? Who do they think they are to say God hates ANYONE? God made EVERYBODY. He loves EVERYBODY. He is sad when we disobey Him, because He loves us.

But you already knew that.

Yeah, I'm not listening to it again. It's already too stuck. But, it was DEFINITELY satire. Sadly, many people are stupid, and don't get it. When one person jumps on the anti-gay train, many others jump too. Not because they're for God, but because they're against homosexuals.