Belief isn't blind at all when it's based squarely on God's authentic Truths and none other. Belief gets blind or fuzzy when moral relativism or error gets fused in.
This is the reason I keep my eyes on the Tabernacle where the Blessed Sacrament is faithfully kept and my Faith in the promise of Christ that He will never abandon His Church.

Sure, others say that they have Him too but the big question is: are they looking at God's authentic Truths or are they being deceived by lying wonders? Jesus warns us not to go for it--not to believe them--to stick with what has always been the Truth, lest even the Faithful be deceived.

ok Lula, this is wonderful "church" talk but in all reality we are the tabernacle of God. His spirit is "in" us. It's not about the external, it's about the internal. Christ in us.

Christ referred to himself as both the living water and the bread of life. He said he had the life giving sustenence that we can only get from him . It's only when he enters the tabernacle (the believer) that one realizes that indeed nothing else can satisfy. Nothing else is needed. Isn't that what he said to the woman at the well?

Both the Jews in the OT and the new Christian believers in the NT were called God's "Kingdom of Priests." Ex 19:6, 1 Peter 2:5.

"And you shall be unto me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation."

"You also as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

In the OT they would offer up "physical sacrifices" in the NT the Christians were to be a "living sacrifice" to God.




while this is true, what about the flip side? What about those still not believing when their questions have been answered? What about those who are willingly ignorant? (2 Pet 3:5) sometimes this is called "dumb on purpose."



of course we would and it's very clear. If you hold the Book of Mormon up to the scriptures or the Koran up to scriptures or any other "side" book of any other religion up to scriptures you run into problems if you're trying to equalize them. It comes down to what are you going to accept? The book of Mormon? The Koran? The Bible? Ellen White? Emamuel Swedenborg's volumes....etc?

Any message that purports to be from God must agree with the message already brought by Jesus Christ in fulfillment of the OT (Luke 24:27).

"Every word of God is tested; He is a sheild to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words lest He reprove you, and you be proved a liar." Prov 30:5-6.

KFC---What does this mean? What are you saying? Could you expound on this a bit further? Thanks.

"I beseech you therefore brethren by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God which is your reasonable service." Rom 12:1

Notice this is addressed to believers. Notice "present" is present tense. We are to be willing sacrifices to God always. It's a matter of the will. By an act of the will we place our total self at the disposal of God. To sacrifice something means to give up something. It means to die to self. We give up our lives to God. Remember Jesus said in Matthew 10:38, 16:24:

"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." "He that takes not his cross and follows after me is not worthy of me."

We know the hardest person in the world to deny is yourself. It's very difficult. To deny self means to put self out of the picture and to put Christ in the place of self.

We are to be living sacrifices in contrast to dead animal sacrifices of the OT. In my mind I picture myself willing to be on that altar for God. It's a picture of Isaac. He was put on that altar alive. A live sacrifice has the ability to crawl off the altar. This is not a command, as you can see, Paul is begging them to consider this. His is the language of grace not law.

It's a matter of the will.

KFC POSTS: “...we are the tabernacle of God..... Christ in us.... Christ referred to himself as ...the bread of life. . It's only when he enters the tabernacle (the believer) that one realizes that indeed nothing else can satisfy.”


Ahh, KFC, you want it every which way. With this, you’ve put yourself in a Protestant “pickle”. You don’t even believe this as long as you deny that Jesus meant what He said literally when He said 3 times, “I am the Bread of life....if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh....he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life...for my flesh is food indeed...he who eats my flesh..abides in me, and I in him....so he who eats me will live because of me.” St.John 6:49-58.


This was Christ’s promise of the Holy Eucharist which is the intimate union with Him sharing in the life of our Lord and becoming one with Him. By partaking of the Holy Eucharist, we receive not only grace but the very Author of grace.

Catholics believe every word...literally. “Christ in us”, oh yes! Can’t get more ‘internal” than this. Jesus ardently desired that He give of Himself in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar. “Because the bread is one, we, though many, are one body, all of us who partake of the one bread.” 1Cor. 10:17.

Jesus’ command to “do this in commemoration of me” is obeyed by the priest at the altar every time he consecrates the bread into Jesus’ Body and Blood. Sometimes there are more Sacred Hosts consecrated than are faithful to consume. The priest places them in the Tabernacle.

So there is no doubt about it, the tabernacle where the Blessed Sacrament is kept is definitely Catholic Church talk. Only the Catholic Church receives Christ in His fullness. In Christ, the Incarnate Word sent to mankind, “the whole fullness of deity, dwells bodily” Col. 2:9 through the ineffable union of His human nature and His divine nature in the Person of the Word. By receiving in this sacrament, the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, we share in the divine life of the second Person of the Blessed Trinity. We can never appreciate enough the intimacy with God Himself , Father, Son and Holy Spirit, that we are offered in the Eucharistic banquet. Being in Church at Mass and partaking of the Real Presence of God in the Tabernacle is the closest thing to being in Heaven on earth.

I’ve just read about a book, Christ in His Fullness, written by a Southern Baptist Church of Christ minister who converted in 1995. In the write-up Karl Keating writes, “To accept Christ is to accept His Church as He established it and has endowed it with His own authority. The fullness of the Christian faith can be had only in obedience to Christ’s authority and therefore to the authority of His Church. This is a ‘hard saying”, but one that liberates from the straitjacket of private interpretation and self-made religion.”

no, if anyone's in the brine, Lula, it's you....lol.

You say repeatedly that John 6 is to be taken literally. That Jesus was talking literal bread when he said "this is my body" right?

Then you go to the cross and say, when Jesus looked down at his mother he was symbolocally making her mother of us all. When in fact, it's not symbolic at all.

So it looks like we've got it switched don't we? I believe when he said "this is my body." he was talking symbolically especially since he EVEN SAYS SO in 6:63 and also harmonizes with other scriptures. And when he looked down at the cross upon his mother he was literally taking care of her and separating from her as he was about to die. Remember death always brings separation.

No, when I say that Jesus is "in us." It's the HS that I'm talking about. It doesn't come and go. It doesn't come in once a week at Mass. It's here to say. It comes when we are born again. It's called eternal security. In the NT it's called sealing. Jesus in us, basically means his HS is indwelling each believer permanently to keep us

In the OT we see that the HS worked a bit differently. God would give and take away the HS away from people. David in one os his Psalms said "don't take your HS away from me." We see many examples where the HS was taken away. King Saul comes to mind.



this is true.



With all due respect......this is balony.


why do you feel the need to tell me constantly all about those who converted to the CC from the Protestant side? You think that's going to sway me? Would you like me to do the same? Every church I've ever been to has 2/3 former Catholics in it including myself. What does that mean? Luther, Calvin and many other reformers were also Catholic. So what? They are all men. I go by what the bible says....not men.

I noticed you didn't give me his name. Why is that? If I knew it, I would definitely check him out. I have a feeling if he were truly a SB, there's more to the story here.


BTW, I've never heard of Southern Baptist Church of Christ. Are you sure it's not Church of Christ period? That would make more sense to me.

I agree, it's not symbolic at all and when I said that I misspoke.

Without going back and checking the post, I think I said that the Church interprets Jesus' words, "Behold, your mother", as having dual meanings. One--just as you said and the other in a "symbolic" sense, meaning that Jesus was giving St.John, and by him the Church, His Mother, in a spiritual sense. I should have used the word "spiritual" instead of the word "symbolic". Catholics believe at this moment, that Jesus gave His Mother, Mary, as our spiritual Mother all His Church. There wasn't any symbolism involved here, the Church interprets Jesus as doing two things as I have explained.

We agree with this interpretation that Jesus was literally taking care of His Mother by entrusting her to St.John's care. Again, Catholics see it as this interpretation as well as Jesus by giving His Mother to St.John, in extension, He was giving her as our spiritual mother to the whole Church. I think of the Blessed Virgin Mary as my spiritual mother and ask her to intercede countless times for me to Jesus.

V 63 says "It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail, the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life."



FKC, in verses 49-58, Jesus is talking about his own flesh becoming our food in the appearance of bread for us to eat. In v. 63, the flesh is our flesh, it's us who He is referring to, as meaning that we can't think of eating His body and blood in a humanly,fleshly way. It's a mystery that is to be accepted on His saying so.

That's the way the Jews misunderstood Him at first, and Jesus persisted, saying 2 times more, and when they did finally understand, they left saying it was "too hard". His Apostles didn't fully understand and becaseu He said it, by faith and love they accepted what He was saying. It became more clear to them at the Last Supper and then upon His Resurrection all that He had told them became clearer and clearer.

V. 63 consists of 3 parts. The last part is Jesus saying "the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life."

What are "the words" He has just spoken? They are Jesus repeating 3 times, "he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood...". His words are spirit and life, His flesh is spirit and life and He tells us that if we eat His flesh and drink His Blood, we will have (His) spirit and life---everlasting life.





Catholics believe this as well. I understand and agree with you on this. But there is more than this, at least for the Catholic by virtue of the BLessed Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist...and that's where the fullness of CHrist comes in. Protestantism denies the Church, Mass, the priesthood, and the Sacraments, in this case the Holy Eucharist. In this sense, you do not have the fullness of Christ. You are operating on only part of GOd's revelation---the Bible alone...and each Protestant sets him/herself up as it's private interpreter. That's why there are thousands upon thousands of different interpetations, thousands of different sects, each with their own set of doctrines on what the BIble means, each one picking and choosing which ones they want to accept as literal, symbolic, etc. This is why there is no unity, one baptism, one fold, or one faith as in Eph. 4:4-5. That's why you haven't the fullness of Christ.




Your talking different things here, scrambling different things together. There is no "eternal security". We are Redeemed, and that's all we know. No one will enter into the presence of God in Heaven for eternity with sin on his soul. No one. We will all be held accountable for the sins we've committed in this life that we have not repented of come Judgment day of which we know not the hour or the day. Yes, Jesus is our Redeemer, but He's also our Judge. Mine, yours...everyones. The way you talk by having eternal security, you won't be judged. You will be----there is no free pass. St.Paul told us that we are to work out our salvation in fear and trembling, with hopeful confidence (not eternal security which is more like false assurance).




KFC POSTS: why do you feel the need to tell me constantly all about those who converted to the CC from the Protestant side? You think that's going to sway me? Would you like me to do the same? Every church I've ever been to has 2/3 former Catholics in it including myself. What does that mean? Luther, Calvin and many other reformers were also Catholic. So what? They are all men. I go by what the bible says....not men.


You would complain if the only sources that I use against your argument were Catholic. So, as often as I'm able, I use people's arguments from your own camp. As far as swaying you, well, haven't you said that you are searching for truth? As far as you doing the same? Whatever you want. So far, KFC, from what I can tell, you are fair,reasonable, civil, and entrenched in fundamentalistic Protestantism...and you seem to have a good sense of humor too.

KFC POSTS: You go by what the Bible says...not men...not really. As a Bible-alone believer, you rely on either private interpretation or Protestant oral tradition (POT). It depends on the topic. POT denied Christ Real Presence in the Holy Eucharist long before you did. That teaching has been handed down.


KFC POSTS: I noticed you didn't give me his name. Why is that? If I knew it, I would definitely check him out. I have a feeling if he were truly a SB, there's more to the story here.
BTW, I've never heard of Southern Baptist Church of Christ. Are you sure it's not Church of Christ period? That would make more sense to me.


I learn alot about Protestantism from reading people's conversion stories. The fellow's name is Bruce Sullivan. He, his wife, Gloria and 5 children were received into the Catholic Church at Easter in 1995. I learned from some promotional literature about his book which is expected to be released in the next few weeks.

The literature mentioned that he was raised as a SB and served as a Church of CHrist minister for 7 years before entering the CC. Graduate of Auburn Univ. and Sunset School of Preaching. According to the printout, he's been featured on the Catholic Cable channel, EWTN, Eternal Word Television Network on a program called the Coming Home Network whose host is Marcus Grodi. Check them out.