Ugly, ain't it. It surprises me that they don't want to get a tax credit for abortions. After all, they claim it is saving the world from the poor, unwanted dregs that would just be a burden on society, anyway.

Hey, maybe she is donating to PP out of remorse that she has a 24 year old daughter to support...

I'm a liberal and I complain about the government....and I will definately take money from them...however, I do understand the importance and have a good deal of respect for the workings of our country even though it's not perfect because it's run by people(sometimes really stupid and/or bad people).

Actually, as a liberal, some other liberals don't make sense to me...(i.e. The crazy ones)

~Zoo

Well working in the income tax business for almost 20 years it's interesting to see things. For one thing it's very obvious that the Liberals don't give to charitable organizations nearly even close what their conservative counterparts do. Why do you suppose? This is nothing new, I guess this was reported as fact back along. It's certainly fact in our office and we deal with at one point 600 clients. My husband seems to think it's like 5 to 1. The conservatives are five times as likely to give to charitable organizations as one liberal is.

I can also tell you which religion receives the most by seeing how the individuals give as well. Catholics....give the least and the Adventists give the most. It's real clear, not even debateable.

The other thing we see is the people who make generally the least give more; percentage wise that is. The more money one makes the less he gives. That, to me, is backed up quite well biblically speaking. We have at least two that make about a million dollars a year. I think we're lucky if we see three or four hundred dollars in donations during any given year given by them.

Funny the things you see when doing taxes.

Statistically, liberals give far less to charity, even secular ones, than conservatives do.

One study concluded that liberals substitute belief in government welfare for actual charitable donations.

Or my take - warm fuzzy thoughts are as good as actually doing something.

Do you poll your clients as to what their political leanings are when you are doing their taxes? How do you know whether they are liberal or conservative?



What do you mean it's not even debabeable--did you ever consider that people don't list their contributions on their taxes? Are you really going to make a grand statement about two entire religions based on the 600 clients in your practice?

Honestly, every Mass I've ever been to, people put cash in the basket--so unless they are going up and asking for a receipt afterwards, they wouldn't be counting it on their taxes.

My Motto in Business - Never discuss politics!  I am not as good as you and would not have held my tongue.

Do you poll your clients as to what their political leanings are when you are doing their taxes? How do you know whether they are liberal or conservative?

no we don't poll them. But after having a business relationship with them for many years, it's not hard to figure out where they stand even if they don't come right out...(some do some don't) tell us what political party they belong to. Lots of questions come out when you do somebody's taxes and charitable deductions is a question that gets asked. I mean, you can alot of times tell just from that alone. some give to churches, some give to political causes, some give to civic organizations. Lots of info gets discussed sometimes it may be current events. It's not real hard to figure out. I mean if you're giving to planned parenthood and have no church affliation or deductions or use four letter words that are not Christ like I can pretty much say by their fruits they are not Christian minded.

What do you mean it's not even debabeable--did you ever consider that people don't list their contributions on their taxes? Are you really going to make a grand statement about two entire religions based on the 600 clients in your practice?

based on 20 years of tax business this is the research we've come up with. Do your own research and see what you get. I noticed you didn't volunteer that you're a big giver debunking what I said. So could this be a true assessment based just on you? Be honest. I take it you're a Catholic? I'm not bashing you by stating this fact. It's just a fact we see over and over again. After a while you get so you can count on things.

I can also back this up with family and friends that I know........we have many Catholic relatives. . We do our family's tax returns for free. It's quite noticeable that while they go to mass, they maybe put 5 or 10 in the plate every week. That doesn't add up to much in a year and that's what we're going on. We have a few Adventists and in EVERY case they give the most, usually more than 10% of their yearly income. We have MORE Catholics than Adventists (we live in the NE) and we've seen very little in Charitable donations coming from them.

Honestly, every Mass I've ever been to, people put cash in the basket--so unless they are going up and asking for a receipt afterwards, they wouldn't be counting it on their taxes

I don't doubt this. You have alot of people that go to Mass. But that's not a very good barometer to go by. If they all put in 5-10 a week it may look like alot when the plate goes by, but is not a good way to measure because you have no idea these individual incomes.

I would venture to say that MOST if not basically ALL people are scrounging around looking for as many deductions as they can to cut their tax liability. So, I would say it's not reasonable to EXPECT that people aren't going to list their contributions.

I don't deduct my charitable contributions. It seems to take the away from the act. If I help a person or a charity, it's because I can and I want to help, not for a tax break. I know people that give only to reduce their tax burden, my former boss was one. Does that make them better people? There are also the people who give just to look like big shots.

First, it's not a fact--it is your observation. You would require a much greater sample for it to be a fact.

Second, I have no plans to make you privy to my financial condition. It's none of your business--and it is really not relevant to this conversation. That said, I agree with Loca that not everyone deducts charitable contributions. I'd also add that not everyone makes monetary contributions--is volunteering your time less valuable than writing a check?

Please don't take the fact that I'm not going to tell you what percetanage of my salary I donate to mean that I do nothing--rather it means I don't feel the need to defend myself. Those who I help, both charitable organizations and individuals, are more than aware and they are the only ones that matter.

But a question for you, does it make you feel better to imply that you are more generous than I am? or than all Catholics are?

well it's a fact based on 20 years of research with clients coming and going. If you doubt me, then check with your local CPA and ask him/her. That's unbiased right?



how many would I need?



but that's not what we're talking about. You don't deduct time spend doing good deeds on your tax return. From a Christian POV I'd say both are what would please God. It's all his anyhow. We're just giving him back a portion of what he's already given us. We can't outgive God. The more we give the more he blesses us whether it's financial or serving.



Did I imply that? Where? How so? I'm not an Adventist either. Personally I don't mind saying that I could give more than I do. If you are asking.... I think I don't give enough. I would certainly not be the first beating my chest, saying "look how good I am."

usually people who say this....please don't take this wrong...I said usually...but they don't really give enough for it to be an issue. I agree with you to some extent tho because we've done this as well. While we give by check mostly, we also occasionally dump cash into the plate and we don't worry about it. But the IRS has come out with even tougher rules this year regarding this issue. In the past you could declare cash to a certain degree but now they want even cash verified. Our church treasurer just sent out notices saying if we want a deduction we need to put it into envelopes now. Otherwise if you don't care just put in as usual.

There's nothing wrong with declaring your deductions on your tax return as far as God is concerned. It's not like you're bragging about it and it's perfectly legal. Normally speaking only you and your accountant would know anyhow. Motivation as you said, is a very big part of why we give in God's eyes. He'd rather see someone give 10 and all they could afford with the right heart attitude than those that give 10,000 for self interest only. The only instruction in the NT on giving is that God loves a cheerful giver. That's the key.

First of all, it is a fact. WWW Link

thanks Doc. I didn't even think to go via the net. I'm just going on our experience anyhow. But a question for you since I know you are more involved in the Catholic circles than I. Do you think most Catholics are liberal?

Where I live, that's what I see. Of course I'm not too far from MA and you know that is largly a Catholic state and where many of our relatives live. My in-laws were strong Catholics but I wouldn't describe them as liberal. They were more moderates in their belief system both religiously and politically. The rest in the family seem pretty liberal.

To be fair, I do have two dear friends here that are strong believers in the CC and are as conservative as I am.

I dont think you can pigeon hole Catholics by politics. As we all know, 2 of the most liberal members of congress are Catholics. And it has been my experience that our Church has a good sprinkling of liberals, but then my family is almost all conservative. When it comes to faith, to be true to it, you have to be socially liberal - but not politically. We dont look to the government to help the poor, we look to ourselves. But on other issues, we are very conservative. Birth control and abortion are the ones that spring readily to mind.

Some have ranted and raved that the Catholic church supports Saddam Hussein, but the truth is they were remaining true to their core beliefs. They do not support the death penalty. I doubt many if any Catholics liked Saddam, but they did speak out against his sentence. In that respect, they are like believers in Free speech. While we may abhor the Nazis and racists that use it to preach their hate, we know that we must defend their right to say it because of our belief in the principal.

For tax purposes it doesn't matter how little it is. If I go make a donation at goodwill, I don't get a receipt. If I hand over $5 to a homeless person, I don't write it down and I couldn't prove it anyway. I'm not saying that I'm a high dollar giver. I do what I can and I could do more. I really feel better helping individuals than organizations. I do give the shoeboxes for Samaritan's purse each year at Christmas. I give to a Catholic mission in Juarez Mexico but they prefer donated items over cash because the government there is so corrupt that the cash never gets to where it's supposed to be. I purchase extra school supplies to donate to the stuff the bus each year. I donate snacks for VBS. I give money to the K of C, the Salvation Army, Shriners, schools, sports teams etc. when they are doing fundraisers at the store. When I do go to church, and I don't go every week, I put cash in the basket. I give. But someone like you could look at my tax return and lump me into the group that doesn't give and that's just not accurate. Any of the indvidual contributions are not high dollar but they do add up over the course of a year. I don't know how much you have to give for it to be an issue $100? $1000? $10,000?