How Do You Know for Sure?
Published on January 29, 2007 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Religion
The million dollar question is How does one get to heaven? The prerequisite is death, and for that we seem to all agree. But after that let the speculation begin. For many life is much too busy to even think about this right now. I mean life is pretty full right now to even bother thinking that far ahead. Life has to be lived, jobs have to be done, kids have to be fed, my tv program has to be watched and I do have to sleep at least 1/3 of the day. There is just no time to think about this right now. Isn't that what we believe even if we don't come out and say it?

When I was on vacation I read a book by Andy Stanley called "How Good is Good Enough?" In his book he brings up some very good logical points that I believe many have not thought thru. Many times I hear that if one is "good enough" they can enter heaven. Obviously that is a very common belief and one that Stanley tackles in his book.

Most people believe that once you die your soul goes somewhere. Most believe in heaven, some believe in hell. In spite of all the differences out there, all share one common denominator: how you live on this side of eternity determines where you spend eternity on the other side.

If God appeared to you at the gate and asked you "Why should I allow you into heaven? how would you answer? Most people no matter if they are Christian, Hindu, or Muslim would answer with:

"I always do .......
"I never have done........."
I've done more good than bad....."
"I've tried my best to be......."

The majority of answers recall living a good life, and living a good life is another prerequisite for heaven. So then we need only to behave ourselves now and we can reach heaven. Now back to our lives.

But as you get older, you start to think more often about it even if you find yourself pushing it away from your mind. Maybe you get some bad health news, or you go to yet another funeral. Maybe it's going to a birthday party or maybe it's your own birthday that gets you to thinking about eternity. You may not talk about it, but it's there.

The mortality rate for humans is 100%, and as we get older it becomes more evident in our minds. As good as we can be, and we usually think we're pretty good, we can't really be sure we're good enough. We can hope so. But how can we know for sure? Where's the line? The standard? Is there enough time to do more good deeds to counterbalance the bad ones? Who decides? If it's God, shouldn't he have been a bit more clearer about how all this works? A mile marker would do or a mid term would be helpful.

But hey we have religion and their many books to help us right? We have teachers, preachers, rabbis, priests, lamas and they are all in the business of getting us to the other side. Ok, so why are we still unsure? Many even tho they have been religiously taught one way or the other are still not confident in their standing before God. Stanley puts a quote in his book from Gandhi showing that even Gandhi couldn't find certainty in religion. If he couldn't be sure can we? When questioned why he proselytized in the arena of politics but not religion Gandhi said:

"In the realm of the political and social and economic, we can be sufficiently certain to convert; but in the realm of religion there is not sufficient certainty to convert anybody, and therefore, there can be no coversions in religions."

Even what we would consider the salt of the earth people here, can sometimes have no idea where they will spend eternity of if they are good enough to enter. The best they can say is "I hope so." Why is that? If the nicest, kindest, most loving people we know here on earth can't know for sure how can we? Why don't they know? Because nobody can tell you how good you have to be to go to heaven. Nobody.

In his book Stanley talks of making dangerous assumptions. For many of us we go to bed assuming we will wake up in the morning. We don't worry about waking up to smoke filled bedrooms because we have smoke alarms. We feel safe. But do we test them? Do our extinquishers work? Do we test them? Or do we assume they work? Yet in spite of our lack of investigation we go to bed every night under the assumption that our family is safe. Since most think they are good, they go to bed assuming that if they were to die in their sleep (it happens) they would find themselves standing at the pearly gates hoping they have the right answers or enough good deeds to get in.

How many of us even take the time to test the assumption that good people go to heaven? Are we too busy? After all the logic seems fair. If you do well, you deserve good things. It's a reward for good behavior. After all, this action and reaction relationship is illustrated in all the religions. The Bible, the Koran, the Book of Mormon, Ellen White's Books etc. all tell of God's eagerness to reward good behavior in this life. So it only seems fair if you do well here, you go to heaven. Plain and simple.

Also it's logical to assume that if God is good and dwells in a good place, then it makes sense that God would surround himself with good people. Bad people wouldn't go to heaven. That's not logical. Don't we think that? We tell our kids if they're good they can go to a very special event or be treated to a very special place as a reward for good behavior.

While we know we're not perfect, at the same time we feel as though we are good enough for heaven. The truth is very few people that believe in life after this earthly one believe they aren't going to a better place. Almost 90% of Americans believe in heaven while only about 30% believe in a hell. Most that believe in hell don't think they are going there.

What other view could there be? Bad people go to heaven? Nope, can't be. Unthinkable. All the experts can't be that off can they?

I'd like to look at that next time.









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Comments (Page 1)
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on Jan 31, 2007
I was going to answer here but in the end my rant was too long - I've written it as an article. I won't link it here, but the basics are:

The demanding, vicious and ruthless god many fundamentalists like yourself believe in isn't worthy of worship in my view.

If you wouldn't support a man who asks for kids to be killed, why would you support a god? Is it simply because a god has more power? What kind of attitude is that to be holding? Morality is about more than simply doing whatever the powerful want you to. It's about acting with compassion and love. If a god is incapable of doing that consistently then it's no more worthy of worship than any human. Obedience is not a virtue when it's in support of evil ends.
on Jan 31, 2007
I agree with your first three lines LW, let me tackle the last:

It is simple. That's the beauty of it. It's not about being a better person. I'm not getting to heaven because I'm better than anyone else. Jesus did not come to earth to make bad people good. He came to bring dead people life.

You're right tho, we can't do anything about our own mortality...that's why he did it for us.

Cacto:

The demanding, vicious and ruthless god many fundamentalists like yourself believe in isn't worthy of worship in my view.


I agree with you. I wouldn't worship such a god myself. That's not the God I worship.

One of the devil's greatest weapons has always been his lying propaganda. It's a way he conditions man to disobedience. He wove a web of lies in the Garden and has been doing his thing ever since. He told Eve then "oh you're all right." Nothing is going to happen to you." He lied to her about God then; caused her to doubt God's motives as he's still doing today.

He's still whispering in our ears how good we are, there's nothing to be concerned about. He's still telling us God is not Holy and doesn't treat us fairly. The result is we have lost sight of how things really are and are now living a life of complete illusion about ourselves.

The Pharisee who thanked God for not being like the "others" honestly thought he was telling the truth. He was just as sinful as everybody else. His own heart had deceived him. He was lliving in the same realm of illusion as the rest of us.

This same God you condemn was made an effigy for us. When something is done to an effigy it's regarded as done to the one it represents. "He was made in the likeness of human flesh." Rom 8:3.

When Jesus cried out "MY God, MY God, why have you forsaken me?" we see God was not forsaking the son but the son as us whose likeness he was wearing. He took our punishment and there on the cross as the Son took the wrath meant for us, we see our vain illusions about ourselves shattered to pieces.

Satan tells us that God is the God with a big stick. Many believe this. We then see God as setting a moral standard that is much to high for us to attain and then HE cannot but censure us when we fall. Of course there is nothing to draw us to a God like that. I would agree. But see, Jesus refuted that lie with the cross and drew us to himself with it. God does not charge us with our sins as we thought but instead charged our account to his son's account. How great is that? He took our debt away. We owe him nothing but our love and gratitude.

What we thought was the big stick of God to condemn us was really his outstretched arms on the cross drawing all men that will come to himself.

You can choose to believe the lie if you want. I choose not to.
on Jan 31, 2007
yes, I agree I did tackle that from a diff position.

Doing good IS a good thing, but my point is not so much just to do good. But doing good, while it IS a good thing,as you said, it's not a free pass that gets us into heaven. Can we still be a good person according to wordly standards and still fall short of the perfection that God demands?
on Jan 31, 2007
I have to hold with grave mistrust any doctrine that says "You can do good all your life, but unless you believe as I do you'll burn in Hell." Do you really, really believe that people who, say, are born in places like Saudi Arabia, with little or no ability to become Christians, have no chance of avoiding hell once they die? You don't think that such ideas are painfully convenient to people who are trying to defeat other people's religions?

Can you say with all assurance that there will be no Muslims in heaven that died Muslims? Or any other non-Christian religion? What about those who never heard at at all, because the missionaries didn't get there in time? I find it too hard to believe considering the enormous evidence that where you are born is the main determination of what you are going to believe.

on Jan 31, 2007
Do you really, really believe that people who, say, are born in places like Saudi Arabia, with little or no ability to become Christians, have no chance of avoiding hell once they die? You don't think that such ideas are painfully convenient to people who are trying to defeat other people's religions?


I believe there is only one way to heaven and you know that no matter where you are in the world. From what I can understand it's easier to find Christ outside of our own country Baker. We need missionaries here....as you can see even here on JU. Lately I'm starting to feel like one.,,,,,

If you do your HW you can see it all started over there. So it's not like they haven't had chances. They had all the witnesses, the gospel started in that vicinity. Turkey was a huge place for churches springing up in the first century. Look at it today. Not so anymore. But even in Iraq and Uzbekistan and places like that you'd be surprised to find many many Christians hiding out. Even in China, there's a huge underground church that puts our churches in the US to shame.

I have to hold with grave mistrust any doctrine that says "You can do good all your life, but unless you believe as I do you'll burn in Hell."


I agree.

Can you say with all assurance that there will be no Muslims in heaven that died Muslims? Or any other non-Christian religion? What about those who never heard at at all, because the missionaries didn't get there in time? I find it too hard to believe considering the enormous evidence that where you are born is the main determination of what you are going to believe.


First off I'm not in the salvation business. God is. I'm only a witness and give what I've seen and heard. When Christ said he was the door and there was absolutely no other way, I belive him. My own kids can't get in outside of Christ.

While I pray for those to hear the Good News, I pray first for my family. It all starts at home. By looking around me, I'd say we have the same % of Christians in this country as we probably do in Iraq or some other Muslim country. Muslims do come to Christ just as an atheist does in any other country by hearing the gospel and accepting it.

on Jan 31, 2007
I believe there is only one way to heaven and you know that no matter where you are in the world.


I disagree.

Before christianity; explain to me how we, human beings, know the way to heaven?

on Jan 31, 2007
the same way as we do now.

Before Christ came they looked forward to the cross like we look back.

on Jan 31, 2007
A family lives on a small island in the middle of the Pacific that has been ignored by the rest of the world for centuries. They have never been exposed to Western society in any form.

They are all good people who live in peace, treat each other with the utmost of love, and have never held an evil thought.

God condemns each and every one of them to Hell because they aren't Christians.

God is fair and just.
on Jan 31, 2007
the same way as we do now.

Before Christ came they looked forward to the cross like we look back.


I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. I'm talking about before "the way," before christianity, judaism.

Another example, during the time of neanderthals, or the like. Did they have "the way"? Nope, so....they got to....fry in hell?

~L
on Jan 31, 2007
A family lives on a small island in the middle of the Pacific that has been ignored by the rest of the world for centuries. They have never been exposed to Western society in any form.

They are all good people who live in peace, treat each other with the utmost of love, and have never held an evil thought.

God condemns each and every one of them to Hell because they aren't Christians.

God is fair and just.


Tis an extremely sad thought. Thankfully, that's not my God.

Heh, guess to some, i'll burn in hell.


Meh, at least it'll be warmer. And, my family will be there. (Family inside joke)

~L
on Feb 01, 2007
"If you do your HW you can see it all started over there. So it's not like they haven't had chances."


That's a pretty Old Testament perspective, dealing in national "theys" with little regard to the situation of the INDIVIDUAL. Unless, that is, you still think God writes off whole nations like he supposedly did with the Phillistines, etc.

You can't be posing that the average child born in Saudi Arabia has the same access to Christianity as people born in the US. They are taught in Muslim, state-sponsored schools, in a nation where it is barely even legal to be anything but Muslim. You really expect people to believe that you could as easily become a Christian there?

Take a poor person born in Shia regions in Iraq. Your family has little money, your family has been persecuted by the authorities, you have no privilege of travel, you have no church in your neighborhood or a store that even sells Christian Bibles. You really think those kids have a chance of being Christian?

on Feb 01, 2007
Before Christ came they looked forward to the cross like we look back.I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. I'm talking about before "the way," before christianity, judaism.


And I'm giving you the answer. Starting with Abraham.....a Hebrew that started it all. He was told by God and looked forward to the promises of God starting in Gen 12. The whole Isaac as the sacrifice thing was all pointing to the day that God would offer his own son. So yes, they were saved back then just as we are now. It all points to the cross.

A family lives on a small island in the middle of the Pacific that has been ignored by the rest of the world for centuries. They have never been exposed to Western society in any form. They are all good people who live in peace, treat each other with the utmost of love, and have never held an evil thought.


First of all Mason, no evil thought? Nada? Nothing? Well that just goes against human nature. That in itself can't be true.

Second, no matter where I go this question always seems to come up. I think many times it's asked to relieve the person of any personal responsibility to God. Third, what you think might happen or might not happen to someone else does not relieve your responsibility when you face God. Anyone who asks the question "what of those who have never heard? should be very careful not to use this as an excuse for not coming to Christ.

The bible is clear that no one enters heaven outside of Christ. The bible also reveals that no one has any excuse. God says what can be known about God has been made plain because he has shown them through creation. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, his eternal power and deity has been clearly seen in the things that have been created. So they are without excuse.

All of mankind can tell there is a creator because His creation testifies to it. This testimony is universal. The bible itself testifies to the fact that there are people who will hear and respond out of every people on the earth. We see changed lives from all walks of life not only portrayed in scripture but in everyday life. I've met Christians from all over the world. I've had one from Africa stay at my home as well as Bulgaria and Poland. I've got missionary friends all over the place.

Even though we may not know how God is going to deal with people who have never heard the presented gospel, we can know that His judgment is going to be fair. When all the facts are in God's name will be vindicated and no one will stand before him accusing Him of unfairness. His light will reveal every nook and cranny of our lives and we will either be standing there naked or covered in the blood of Christ. I plan on being covered up. Otherwise, my naked self is going to tell a very unpleasant story. Thank God for the blood of the lamb.

I may not be able to your satisfaction answer your questions but I do know there are certain things that the Bible has made clear. I've heard it said this way:

"Many things in the Bible I cannot understand; many things in the Bible I only think I understand; but there are many things in the Bible I cannot misunderstand." Anyon





on Feb 01, 2007
You really expect people to believe that you could as easily become a Christian there?


I know it's being done. Granted It's not out in the open but it's flourishing in alot of these Muslim/communist countries. They are coming to Christ. Do you know of any soldiers over there that you can talk to? I have a missionary friend that spent 11 years in Uzbeck. He's a devout Christian and he had a work over there. He knows and can speak very fluently the Uzbeck language. He, as a Christian managed to live a Christian life. He will tell you there are many that are coming to Christ.....one at a time. In fact I think it's almost easier to become a Christian over there. Here we are so indulged, we can't see past our last meal. They are hungry over there and for more than just food.

Take a poor person born in Shia regions in Iraq. Your family has little money, your family has been persecuted by the authorities, you have no privilege of travel, you have no church in your neighborhood or a store that even sells Christian Bibles. You really think those kids have a chance of being Christian?


see my response to Mason. I also have examples that you could liken to today.

I think of Rahab the prostitute in Jericho. Remember her? She had very limited knowledge of Him, very little, but the Bible refers to her as a woman of faith and her actions were commended. She was saved and entered into the lineage of Christ.

Naaman, the Syrian who lived in a pagan culture (2 Kings 5:15-19) but yet he exercised faith. How about Jonah being sent to Nineveh, a heathen place, very bad place to go, yet the Assyrians repented and were saved. They were a nasty people before that. Very bad.

It can be clearly seen by the above examples that God will fairly judge all mankind and that no one can claim that he or she received an unfair hearing.

God chose the Hebrew Nation Israel so they would be a light to a dark world. Any that chose to come to this light was saved. It's the same today the light has been given to those who follow Christ. They have been given the responsibility to be light bearers. HE is the light. We are only vessels carrying that light. Those that follow the light become bearers of the light as well, regardless of culture, and are saved.



on Feb 01, 2007
You would really compare a woman who lived in Palestine, the West Bank, at the same time as Jesus with people living now in the Muslim world? Are you kidding?

No offense, but Uzbekistan ain't Saudi Arabia. I had a missionary friend that lived in Kazakhstan, and there are places there where there are no roads, and they still live in yurts and drink milk from their horses. Missionaries don't get out there much, if at all.
on Feb 01, 2007
And I'm giving you the answer. Starting with Abraham.....a Hebrew that started it all. He was told by God and looked forward to the promises of God starting in Gen 12. The whole Isaac as the sacrifice thing was all pointing to the day that God would offer his own son. So yes, they were saved back then just as we are now. It all points to the cross.


No, you didnt give an answer. I'm not talking about those areas of the world. I'm referring to other areas, non middle east. What about neanderthals?

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