No Separation Between Mosque and State?
Published on March 5, 2011 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Current Events

The separation of church and state usually makes for a heated and and sometimes fun discussion.  Most of us certainly have strong opinions about this topic one way or the other.    In some areas I'm ok with the separation of church and state especially in lieu of our modern culture although I'm quite positive the way we define that today is not how it was intended by our forefathers. 

Soooo...with that I was wondering how those who agree with the separation of church and state would feel about the following news release from Georgia.   

How many who are AGAINST the separation and church stance would like their tax dollars going overseas to refurbish Muslim Mosques?  And I'm not talking pennies here either.    No such thing as separation of Mosque and State? 

Check this out. 

 


Comments
on Mar 06, 2011

Here in Australia our tax dollars do pretty much the same thing, Foreign aid dollars are funding the rebuilding of infrastructure and other Historical or iconic buildings.

We also have the same often misleading news snippets designed to outrage the general public. usually  politically  motivated.

Mosque Makeovers With Your Tax Dollars is a pretty strong statement and obviously there is some truth to this however if you replay the video and listen to what the news report actually says.

It first states that a 1300 year old egyptian mosque was Almost destroyed by contaminated sewer water,It and other churches and mosques were saved from destruction by US taxpayers.

It then states the money was spent on rebuilding the Cairo sewage system which means that indirectly the mosque is benefited by those tax dollars.

But then the report goes on (now they have got your attention) to say other countries are also getting "mosque upgrades" and internet etc.

But thats about the end of the facts, as they show a few websites with Arabic writing implying  that Look Look they have internet and we are paying for it!!!

"To the average person this could very well be an insult to them" and "we are really giving them access to get together against America"

But you be safe in the knowlage as the news guy said "We will stay on top of it though and "we will let you know"

This appears to be scaremongering, however it's not really that well done.

 

Foreign aid is always an easy target as it taps into peoples fears of the unknown, especially in this modern era where terror is the new red under the bed.

Thats not to say that there is no validity to the report,However many countries, including the United States spend "tax Dollars"  to help developing countries and 9 times out of 10 the money is spent on boring stuff like schools,medical facilities,vaccine funding and infrastructure a as in the case of Egypt, an upgrade to the sewage system.

 

I am happy to see my tax dollar go to support the things we take for granted, After all in Australia only 0.29% of GDP (gross domestic product) is spent in foreign aid which is not a lot.

In the US however a generous 0.19% of GDP is spent on foreign aid less than one quarter of one percent.

The American people on the other hand save the day by giving on average 2.3% of GDP  in foreign charitable donations every year.(the UN reccomend 0.07% of GDP)

Oh, by the way church and state separation is a necessary thing, In basic terms one is run on emotion and the other on fact.(that is Dependant on your own personal point of view as the same could be said for both sides of the argument)

The state has no business running the church as the church has no business running the state.

on Mar 07, 2011

Piers - an outstanding analysis of the situation!  Cool, calm and collected.

I agree that separating out foreign aid as to "church and state" is virtually impossible since not all countries strive to maintain the divide that the US does.

on Mar 07, 2011

Foreign aid is always an easy target as it taps into peoples fears of the unknown, especially in this modern era where terror is the new red under the bed.

Well most people don't know where their tax payers dollars are going...so in that sense, this video was an eye-opener.

Having said that, generally speaking, no one will dispute that spending US foreign aid tax monies on fixing contaminated water systems and rebuilding infrastructure, etc. is a good thing. Most would have no problem with that.

But spending US tax monies on refurbishing Mosques in Egypt and Cyprus and giving computers and Internet service to Imams is going too far. Why? For what you said above, we live in an age of terror and for reasons claimed by the woman in the video. 

I agree with the commentator......it is time to review all taxpayer funded federal programs and refurbishing mosques is a place to cut.

 

 

on Mar 07, 2011

No such thing as separation of Mosque and State?

To liberals "separation of church and state" only applies to Christianity.

on Mar 07, 2011

"The state has no business running the church as the church has no business running the state."

Piers:

I actually agree with you but who said anything about running the church or running the state?  All I'm saying is the whole "separation of church and state" today is not how it started out in the beginning in our country.  Let's just say it evolved over time shall we?  

I am one of those you speak of who give to foreign charitable donations when I support children in poor third world countries thru Compassion and World Vision.   I don't have a problem with helping others when it comes to basic necessities of life like water, food and medicine but when it comes to building mosques and internet capabilities then I do have a problem with that. 

I see what the state is doing here in this country to religious Christian organizations as year by year they are making it very difficult for churches when it comes to their contributions never mind trying to outright help them by supporting them in any way, shape or form.  My husband is a CPA and a Pastor and has been watching what the government has been doing to the churches via their rulings from an economic standpoint and it's not good.  It's been subtle and slow but like the separation of church and state it's been evolving and just like separation of church and state it's not a good thing in my opinion. 

The state has been ever so slightly pushing down the doors of the churches.  It's only a matter of time....

I agree with Lula on the fact that most, me included, have really no idea where most of our tax dollars are going and this was an eye opener for me as well. 

 

 

 

on Mar 09, 2011

I am not too familiar with American Christian organizations but from what you are saying I gather that some Christian organizations have had in the past, government funding and or some kind of financial assistance.

I assume that the funding being used to help the less fortunate in the community which I feel is admirable.

My long standing belief is "Why give to other countries when we have poor and needy at home."

The task of the poor and needy is usually is left to community,religious and Christian organisations which have little or no assistance from the government. This is not confined to the US as we have similar problems here in Australia and across the ditch in New Zealand.

It actually makes me angry to see my tax dollars going off shore when we have so many problems at home, and yes not a lot of people do understand where their tax dollars are being used and why...which makes it such an easy target for the media to "alert" people and stir up trouble,

Usually there is a political agenda behind this and a good example would be Rupert Murdock and his fear mongering on fox new channel (maybe its not really a good example but anyone can see the man at the top dictating his point of view through his media outlet).

It is all to easy to get fired up with an article/commentary like that however there is one thing we overlook and that is when we give (weather it be directly via donation or indirectly via tax dollars)

There should be no conditions on that giving. No judgement on that giving, No strategic giving (something the US is accused of a lot with foreign aid).... Period.

I feel that if I am to give freely, There should be no conditions.

What the commentary is trying to do is associate terror with foreign aid and there is no direct evidence of foreign aid funding terror campaigns however the definition of terror is Dependant on your point of view and geographical location.

My opinion is that the commentary was somewhat misleading and mixed fact with commentary rather than simply reporting fact.

I have strayed from the church state thing perhaps that could be another discussion where perhaps a more detailed meaning of what the church and state separation means specifically in the US. 

on Mar 09, 2011

The task of the poor and needy is usually is left to community,religious and Christian organisations which have little or no assistance from the government. This is not confined to the US as we have similar problems here in Australia and across the ditch in New Zealand.

Yes, exactly.

It used to be that the task of caring for the needy and the poor was left exclusively to the community and religious organizations, but in modern times the government (State) using taxpayer monies, through entitlement, welfare and USAID programs,  has taken over that job. 

My long standing belief is "Why give to other countries when we have poor and needy at home."

There should be no conditions on that giving. No judgement on that giving, No strategic giving (something the US is accused of a lot with foreign aid).... Period.

I feel that if I am to give freely, There should be no conditions.

Now, this is where I separate the Church from the State.

As a Catholic, I gladly and freely give my pew money to the Church  knowing it will best use ito serve the needy and poor people locally as well as all over the world. 

As far as the State is concerned, we are talking about US taxpayer monies..and so you can bet your bottom dollar it's conditional. I pay my taxes expecting the State to use that tax money abiding by the Constitution. As I said before, using taxpayer monies to help the needy and the poor in other countries is one thing, but renovating mosques and supplying Imam's with computers and Internet service is quite another.

 

What the commentary is trying to do is associate terror with foreign aid and there is no direct evidence of foreign aid funding terror campaigns however the definition of terror is Dependant on your point of view and geographical location.

I didn't see associating terror with foreign aid as the main point of the news report at all. Rather, thepoint was that my tax dollars are being used overseas to renovate mosques in Egypt and Cyprus and to pay for Imam's internet and computers. This happens at a time when the US government has spent/is spending way too much. We need to cut our budget bigtime. What should we cut......maybe USAID going to refurbishing mosques overseas? 

 

 

 

on Mar 11, 2011

 thepoint was that my tax dollars are being used overseas to renovate mosques in Egypt and Cyprus and to pay for Imam's internet and computers.

New Zealand had an earthquake a few weeks back and the US used foreign aid dollars to help the people of Christchurch start to rebuild their shattered city.

Some of that money will be used to rebuild/refurbish two cathedrals,Both historical places not as ancient as 1300 years but both had internet, Japan also had a large earthquake yesterday to which I am sure the US will also send foreign aid 

This happens at a time when the US government has spent/is spending way too much. We need to cut our budget bigtime.

Cutting USAID will achieve nothing positive for the US. As well as being less than one quarter of one percent of GDP it wont do a great deal for the budget either.

Now if the military budget was cut from 4.3% to 3.3% of GDP there would be an extra US$15,000,000,000 approx available and thats from 2008 figures   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

I am not saying that the US could solve it's domestic funding problems by cutting the military budget it's just an easy target to point to because of it's size.

Education in todays world comes more and more from computers and less and less from books so it follows that an internet connection to a church or to a mosque is not such a strange nor infrequent thing, It's simply a normal part of this modern era.

on Mar 11, 2011

Lula posts:

We need to cut our budget bigtime. What should we cut......maybe USAID going to refurbishing mosques overseas?

Cutting USAID will achieve nothing positive for the US.

I've already said in #3 that sending USA foreign aid for drinking water, infrastructure, etc. is a good thing. There is a difference between cutting USAID completely and cutting only those monies going toward refurbishing overseas mosques.

The bottom line for me as a US taxpayer is that we must do better with oversight as to where the taxpayer USAID monies are going overseas.

I think it can be better used than on refurbishing mosques and paying for Imam's computers and internet service.

 

on Mar 14, 2011

Japan also had a large earthquake yesterday to which I am sure the US will also send foreign aid

Piers - An interesting statistic on USA "giving".  I think it was for the Haiti Earthquake that showed private giving (from individuals) was about 200 times greater than government giving.

In the case of Japan, I think the USA government will give aid, but no money (they really do not need it).  But Private citizens will give a ton of money - and yes part of that will go to restore religious institutions.  But that is ok in anyone's book - as it is our decision and freely done. Not the actions of a coercive government.

on Mar 14, 2011

But that is ok in anyone's book - as it is our decision and freely done. Not the actions of a coercive government.

yes.  I called World Vision today and they said they are asking everyone they speak to if they would like to make a one-time donation for the Japan Earthqake aftermath.  If people wish to give like that (and they will) that's fine.  But to take my money via the government, and put it towards building religious institutions that I vehemently think is working against my own, is so not right. 

 

 

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