He Is The Prototype of Our Faith Today
Published on April 30, 2010 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Religion

I want to tell you a true story.  It's ancient history now but it's a beautiful story of God's love for all mankind.  God looked down, saw a mess and knew something had to be done to reconcile us to Him saving us from what would be a terrible end otherwise. 

It all starts with a man called Abraham.  Years after the events of the original story James wrote this: 

"Was not Abraham, our father, justified by works when he offered Isaac his son upon the altar?  See how faith is wrought with his works and by works was faith made perfect?  And the scripture was fulfilled which said "Abraham believed God and it was imputed to him for righteousness and he was called the Friend of God."  James 2:21-23

The key here is "the scripture was fulfilled."  Normally we know that prophecy is something that is uttered either orally or written down, and after some period of time, later seen. 

Here we're talking about scripture that was given to Abraham.  James is saying what was spoken to Abraham was later fulfilled.  "Abraham believed God and it was imputed to him for righteousness." 

In Genesis 12:1-3 where it all began, we can read about the call of Abraham.  He was told to get out of Ur of the Chaldees which we know is the old name for Iraq.   Hebrews 11:8 tells us that when he was called, he obeyed even though he had no idea where he was going. It was by faith he did this. 

This was no easy feat.  In Joshua 24 we read that Abraham's father's background was idolatry.  Abraham was born a Gentile and declared a Jew.  The Jewish nation would be born from this man.  He was called out of idolatry.  Nothing about his circumstances can explain why he did what he did.  Faith is able to accomplish what circumstances cannot do.  It was not easy to walk away from your clan, your gods, and your way of life.  Something was unusual here.

He was 75 years old when he responded to the call of God.  He was a senior citizen.  Later in Chapter 15 of Genesis which is the most important chapter in the life of Abraham we can see he's a few years older.  We're not sure how much but it's under 10 years because the chronological marker in 16 tells us it was 10 years after his initial call.  In this very important chapter we read this:

"And He (God) brought him forth abroad and said, Look now toward heaven and tell the stars, if you are able to number them and he said to him, So shall your seed be.  And he (Abraham) believed in the Lord and he counted it to him for righteousness."  15:5,6.

This is exactly what James wrote about.  Many believe that Abraham did something to earn this but all he did was believe the promise that the Lord had given him.  Simple belief made him right with God.  It's so simple yet all the religions of the world have told us for centuries we must earn our way into God's good graces.  Not true. 

Abraham was justified by faith.  Paul later made it quite clear that Abraham's salvation was made on this night.  He is justified in Chapter 15 not in Chapter 12  when he left Ur.  We know Abraham left Ur by faith but there are different types of faith.  Abraham, in Chapter 12, is exercising legitimate, genuine faith when he left Ur.  But it is not soul saving faith.  God said to him "follow me and I will show you a land."  He believed it and trusted it would happen but in Chapter 15 it says he believed in the Lord and "was counted to him for righteousness." 

In 1 John 5:13, John wrote something similar to the Christians when he penned this:

"These things have I writeen to you that believe on the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God." 

Simple belief. Soul saving belief.  How complicated the religions of the world make things.

It's one thing to say I believe in Jesus and quite another to believe in his death, burial and resurrection and understand how it means for our salvation.  Saving faith is when one goes to the Savior at the cross and knows he died for them.  God communicates truth to us when we respond.  As we respond to truth, he gives us more light.  God called Abraham by faith.  Abraham responded.  He reached out in faith to God of the promise.  He did not give a performance to earn his salvation. 

Many years passed by and Abraham, not having the benefit of scriptures like we do thought he needed to help God out a bit so he and his wife came up with an idea.  They brought in their handmaiden and she conceived a child.  Of course this was not the child of promise.  This was their idea not God's.  We see here that Abraham was 86 years old (Gen 16:16). It wouldn't be until another 11 years later that God gave the covenant of circumcision (Chap 17)  and even later that the child of promise to be born. 

Later in the book of Romans, Paul said there was a very clear reason why God did it this way.  The only thing that declared his justification was his faith.  Paul asks in Romans 4 "what does circumsion have to do with Abraham's salvation?"  Nothing.  It's simply a symbol or token of his faith already possessed. 

Now Abraham's guilt over his handmaiden Hagar immediately comes to the surface.  He is so excited about the promise he thinks about his son Ishmael, desiring a plan for him too. 

God is specific.  Sarah will have a son.  His name is to be Isaac. God's covenant will be established with Isaac. 

Then comes one of the most beloved chapters in the book of Genesis.  Chapter 22. This is when Abraham would offer Isaac up to God as a sacrifice.  Keep in mind the culture back then.   We don't know how old Isaac is, but we can listen to the dialogue between the two and understand he's at least a boy if not a young man. 

They woke up early in the morning to make this trip up the mountain.  We see no questioning; no challenge to God's request of Abraham for this to be done.  Abraham once again responded clearly in faith.  The writer in Hebrews tells us Abraham's thought process giving us more info.  He lifted the knife but in his mind he knew God would raise his son back to life, because before they went up the mountain, Abraham said "we will be back." 

This is the faith process.  Same thing we have to go thru when we exercise faith today.  Abraham clearly understood what God said in Genesis 17.  He heard and believed God would do what he said about how numerous his seed would be through Isaac.  Abraham faced a dilemma of faith.  A paradox was before him.  He must have questioned himself by thinking "how do I reconcile killing my son, the son of promise, and the promises of God that were to come from Isaac?"  His seed would be multiplied thru Isaac and how could this be if he were dead?

He came to the conclusion "I can't reconcile this but God can."  As he looked up, knife in hand, he saw a ram caught in a thicket.  This ram never entered his mind.  In his mind he saw, according to the writer of Hebrews, Isaac dying in sacrifice, then his beloved son would be raised from the dead.  God in his mercy withheld Isaac being sacrificed yet later God did not withold his only beloved Son dying for us. God provided a substitute for Abraham in the meantime.  It was like God was saying, "no Abraham, not your son, but mine.  I will do it. 

Circumstances are God's problem.  My responsibiilty is to do what God tells me to do.  How many times do we look at our own circumstances and don't do what God would have us to do?

It's all about FAITH.  This is the reason Abraham is our spiritual father.  He was a great example to all of us, not  just the Jews. 

Simple faith.  Same faith.  Soul saving faith. 

 

  

 

 


Comments (Page 3)
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on Jun 24, 2010

I am not picking and choosing Lulapilgrim.  Jesus is the lamb is he not?  Did he not say that he is the light and the way?  Yes he did.

What is a lamb Lulapilgrim?  Who takes care of the lamb, leads it to green pastures and water, and keeps it from harm?    The shepherd does.  Jesus held no job, made no money, and who took care of him?  The shepard, God.  Do you recall Psalms?  The lord is my shepherd, I shall not want?  Jesus was the lamb and God the shepherd.  God took care of him, mind, body and soul.  Jesus trusted that he would and God did.  We can do no less than to follow his path.  It is the path to everlasting life.  If one can't trust that God will take care of them, one has none of that which you call "divine faith".

We want to believe that faith is enough and coupled with good works we will see heaven.  Not so.  One must follow in Jesus's path.  He was the light that showed the path, and he was the way in that he was the example of how to live in order to find eternal life.  It is the reason that he said I am the light and the way and he who believes in me shall have life everlasting.  If one believes in him and what he taught and that it is the truth, then to take the path that he followed and showed by example is not that difficult, if one can conquer their own fear and disbelief.  Because  it is just that disbelief that gives us the idea that we must take care of ourselves and the fear that God won't.  It is not our money that God desires and giving 10% of that is not enough.  God want our trust and 100% of it.  One can't ignore it nor can one eliminate it by sayng it means something else for someone else.  The idea that we must be responsible for our own lives is nothing more than that, an idea.  It shows a definite lack of faith in God, and a disbelief in the words and life of Jesus.

on Jun 24, 2010

I do not have to look for peices to make sense of the bible Lulapilgrim, it makes perfect sense to me.  Why doesn't it to you?

on Jun 26, 2010

Whisper2 posts 7

Unless some one has left a written record about their own thoughts, no one knows what they were.

That's exactly what the Holy Bible is....God's written record of His salvation plan for mankind. That Someone is God who inspired each and every one of the various writers to write what they wrote.

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I deal in proof only, faith is not an option.

Lula posts:

I think one of the most unsettling questions Our Lord Jesus Christ spoke when He was instructing His disciples concerning His Second Coming was, "Yet when the Son of man comes, will he find, do you think, faith on earth?"

Whisper2 posts:12

Do you think that he will find faith on the earth? Do you think that it will be a positive thing if he does? I think that he will, and I think that he will be quite disappointed that man is willing to simply believe and not willing to take the necessary steps to find out.

One of the signs that Our Lord predicted would precede His Coming in Judgment at the end of the world is there will be a great apostasy from the Faith. That means a great many people will lose themselves in committing sin. They will be just as the days when Noah entered the Ark. So that indicates that there will be faith but only a few, a small remnant.

Yes, having faith is always a positive thing because faith is the beginning of life in Christ. "Without faith, it is impossible to please God." Hebrews 11:6. But our Faith must be firm and complete. It can't be a halfway faith...where all viewpoints are considered valid as though there are many paths that lead to salvation. For that to be true we'd have to deny God's authority. And if we accept some truths but deny others, then that amounts to denying God altogether.

 

on Jun 26, 2010

Whisper2 posts:

I do agree with John, the bible does not contain all the truths necessary for salvation.

I find it hard to believe that all the words in the bible are "God inspired". Too many are in conflict with the direct word of God and the teachings of Jesus.

 

As I pointed out before, Acts, it seems, was written by men, apparently seeking authority and power for themselves, not by God. The apostles were never instructed to write it either, not by God nor by the Christ.

lula posts

Whether you agree or not, believe or not, the Book of Acts is indeed inspired of God and made part of the Holy Bible.

Again, picking and choosing which part of the Sacred Scripture you believe as "true" is just an independent streak on your part.

Whisper2 posts:

I am not picking and choosing Lulapilgrim.

If that's not picking and choosing which part of the Bible you believe what is it?

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Jesus is not god nor at anytime does he say or refer to himself as such. He does refer to himself and the "son of God" many times however and refers to God as being his father.

Did you read my post #25 in which I provided  rebutted your assertion that Jesus is not God?

 

 

 

 

on Jun 26, 2010

Jesus is not god nor at anytime does he say or refer to himself as such.

Jesus is God. Period.   He does refer to himself as such (John 8:58 for one very clear statement)  he had many witnessess like raising people from the dead (only God can do that) not to mention he kept showing the skeptical scriptures of the OT that had they known them they would have connected the dots. 

That's the whole gospel... that God came down in the flesh and took our place because of his great love for mankind.  The wages of sin is death and we are all deserving of it.  Thank goodness..and God for His great grace and mercy he has for us. 

 There's no leeway when it comes to this subject. It's called an essential. 

We want to believe that faith is enough

It is enough.  John 3:16 is clear.  Read it and meditate on it.  It will do your soul some good. 

 

 

on Jun 28, 2010

You think only God can raise the dead?   You are in for the biggest shock of your life.  Raising the dead is not the miracle that you think it is.  And the one that shall come to deceive mankind will do just exactly that same thing.  The earth will be so amazed that such miracles are performed that they will follow like sheep to slaughter.  Read your Revelations.

The disciples performed miracles also, not the raising of the dead, at least not that you know of, nor was written of, but they were according to most of you miracles none the less and you marvel at them.  They are in fact simply works of natural law in action.  Any one can do it, if they have the knowledge.  Even dear Giodano Bruno, who performed such acts that amazed and made jealous the RCC, that when he told them that it was natural law in operation they put him to death because they wouldn't believe him and then built a monument to him afterwards.

As to John Chapter 8 verse 58.  Read all the verses which come before that particular one such as verse 54 which reads "Jesus answered "If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing.  It is my Father that glorifies me, of whom you say that he is your god."  Because Jesus says that he came to be before Abraham did doesn't mean that he is saying he is God.  That is an assumption on your part, no where is that written.  And every where is written that Jesus says that he is the son of God.

No Jesus is not God.  Jesus is the son of God and John chapter 3 verse 16 does not say that either.  It reads:  "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that those who believe in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting."  Then further in verse 17 it continues "For God did not send his Son into the world in order to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through him."  Now it does continue further once more saying "the only begotten Son of God."

When it says that one must have belief in Jesus, it doesn't mean that one only needs to believe that he existed and was the "only begotten son of god", but that one believes in the path that he took for his life to show mankind how to live his own by trusting in God to provide all that is necessary.  One will not find ever lasting life otherwise.  The path, his path of living, is the only way.

It sounds hard, and it's demanding, and it scares us because we believe that only we can take care of ourselves by earning a living, accumulating wealth and the things of the world.  In that belief we are trusting only in ourselves, not in what Jesus showed us nor in God.  Jesus said to take the narrow path, which is the hardest path and the one that requires faith and trust in God.  Taking the responsibility for oneself and ones own life is not the narrow path, nor is it the hardest path and the one that requires faith and trust in God.  If you believe in the fact that Jesus existed as the only begotten son of God but not in his acts or his sacrifice of his own life to show you the way to everlasting life, you do not believe in Jesus.  You still believe in only your self.  Remember the "widow's mite", which is as follows form St. Mark 13  verse41-44

"And Jesus sat down opposite the treasury, and observed how the crowd were putting money into the teasury; and many rich people were putting in large sums.  And there came on poor widow, and she put in two mites, which make a quadrans.  And he called his disciples together, and said to them, "Amen I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who have been putting money into the treasury.  For they all have put in out of their abundance, but she out of her want has put in all that she had-all that she had to live on."

The widow, who knew that she had to eat on the morrow knew that God would provide for her needs if she trusted and gave over all to God.  Those that tithed a portion of their wealth trusted not in God to provide but in that wealth which they kept aside because they thought that it would insure for their own needs on the morrow.  They had no trust in God, but instead trusting only in themselves.  When we do the same we have no trust or faith in God either, nor in his only begotten son Jesus.

on Jun 28, 2010

Jesus is God. Period. .........There's no leeway when it comes to this subject. It's called an essential.

Yes, well said KFC. That believing Jesus is God is an essential belief.

No Jesus is not God. Jesus is the son of God and John chapter 3 verse 16 does not say that either. It reads: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that those who believe in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting." Then further in verse 17 it continues "For God did not send his Son into the world in order to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through him." Now it does continue further once more saying "the only begotten Son of God."

St.John does not provide proof of your assertion that Jesus is not God, rather he refutes it.

In the case of Christ one does not exclude the other. Read St.John 1 to understand that St.John admits this distinction when he says, "The Word was with God." yet asserts identiity in the divine nature when he adds, "And the Word was God".

And besides Christ showed the co-equality of the THree Divine Persons in the one single Divine Nature when He ordered the Apostles to baptize in the one name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

And remember Philip asked, "Lord show us the Father." ANd Christ replied, Phiilip have you not known Me?" He that sees Me sees the Father also."

Jesus Himself said, "I and the Father are one."

The prophet Isaias prophecied the Messias Christ is God.

In Isaias 35:4 "....God Himself will come and will save you." 

In Isaias 7:14,  "His name shall be called Emmanuel", which means God with us. 

In Isaias 9:6, "...God the Mighty, the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace."

And I'll ask you the same question I asked KFC on the other blog.


With Isaias in mind and given the entire context of St. Luke chapter 1....go to verse 35.


The angel Gabriel told the Blessed Virgin, "....and the Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the HOLY which shall be born.....".

If not God, who then is "The Holy" that Gabriel said would be born as a result of the Holy Ghost overshadowing the Blessed Virgin Mary?



on Jun 28, 2010

he had many witnessess like raising people from the dead (only God can do that)

Read Acts 9:36-43, the account of St.Peter raising Tabatha from the dead.

The disciples performed miracles also, not the raising of the dead, at least not that you know of, nor was written of, but they were according to most of you miracles none the less and you marvel at them.

Yes, Jesus gave His Apostles and other disciples the power to perform miracles that defy nature. Miracles are performed to awaken faith in those who witness them. In Acts 3:6-8, St.Peter worked the first miracle giving a lame man from birth the power to walk, In Acts 9:36, St.Peter raised Tabatha from the dead.  In this case, the miracle is a kindness God shows Tabatha to reward her virtues and is an encouragement to the Christians of Joppa.

 

on Jun 28, 2010

 The word being with God and the word being God has nothing what so ever to do with Jesus.  Jesus is not spoken of or named in that statement, and John definately knew Jesus.  Whether or not John thought of Jesus as God is immaterial, Jesus did not.  it is Jesus that is the final authority on who he was not John.

Jesus giving the power to the disciples to baptize in the name of the 'Father, the SON, and the holy spirit/ghost" doesn't say that Jesus is God either.  You will notice that the "SON" is mentioned also don't you?  God gave that power to Jesus and he gave it to his disciples.  It is very simple.  His disciples were also told to teach the same thing to those that they chose to learn.  Are you also telling me that they are God too?  You take the holy trinity to mean one person, what don't you understand about "trinity"?  Trinity means three not one, and in anyones language.  The fact that they are holy doesn't mean that they are all one.  If it did it wouldn't be called a trinity, but a "one".

Jesus saying that seing him is also seeing the father is not Jesus saying that he is the father.  He is like the father, he is God's only begotten son.  Like father like son, or have you never heard the phrase before?  Jesus saying that the father and himself are one doesn't mean that he is the father either.  He definitey refers to himself an the son and God the father.  It means that he is is son and he follows his fathers commands faithfully and to the letter.  I've quite often heard married couples say that we are one too, but that doesn't mean that they are one person either.

As to the rest of your quotes, quote for me exacltly where Issais says that the messisas Christ is God.  Word for word.  God himself will come to save you does not indicate that Jesus is God either.  God saving his creation is God saving his creation.  It is an act, not a teaching which is what Jesus did.  Jesus didn't save creation during his life here he taught creation how to save themselves.  His name shall be Emmanual which means that God is with us, doesn't mean that Jesus is God either.  But that the teachings given to the son by the father is with one, which is sayng that God who is the teachings or the word as you put it, is with you. As to the "God the Mighty, the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace." meaning God is Jesus, that isn't shown there either.  Jesus is said to be the ruler of that world not the father.

"The angel Gabriel told the Blessed Virgin, "....and the Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the HOLY which shall be born.....".

If not God, who then is "The Holy" that Gabriel said would be born as a result of the Holy Ghost overshadowing the Blessed Virgin Mary?"

No where does that say that Jesus is God either, but never the less I shall answer the question.  The holy that is spoken of is the "only begotten son of God".

Anyone can do that which is described as "miracles", if you live long enough you will see that it's true.  Read revelations where it is said that the beast gives the power to perform miracles in it's name.  If miracles are only things performed to awaken faith, then explain the charlatans that perform what is called miracles, especially the one that Peter defeated.  Remember that the miracles were still performed even though Peter with aid brought him down.  It is natural law, that's the truth, and anyone can with the necessary knowledge perform those feats.  The beast in revelations does so, and misleads those that believe that "miracles" are a sign and sole property of God. 

on Jun 30, 2010

Whisper posts #39

And every where is written that Jesus says that he is the son of God.

Not everywhere. In St.John 10:30, Jesus claimed to be God when He said, "I and the Father are one."

Which goes with Philippians 2:5-8,

5 For let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But emptied himself , taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man. 8 He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross.

 

.......................

whisper2 posts:

No Jesus is not God. Jesus is the son of God and John chapter 3 verse 16 does not say that either. It reads: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that those who believe in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting." Then further in verse 17 it continues "For God did not send his Son into the world in order to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through him." Now it does continue further once more saying "the only begotten Son of God."

Lula posts:

In the case of Christ one does not exclude the other. Read St.John 1 to understand that St.John admits this distinction when he says, "The Word was with God." yet asserts identiity in the divine nature when he adds, "And the Word was God".

Here is St.John 1:1-4,

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

 

Whisper2 posts:

The word being with God and the word being God has nothing what so ever to do with Jesus. Jesus is not spoken of or named in that statement, and John definately knew Jesus. Whether or not John thought of Jesus as God is immaterial, Jesus did not. it is Jesus that is the final authority on who he was not John.

These verses form the introduction to St.John's Gospel and they preface the account of Jesus' life proclaiming and praising His divinity and eternity. Even though the actual words, "Jesus Christ" is not here, St. John calls the Son of God "the Word".

Jesus is the uncreated Word, God the Only begotten who empties Himself and takes on the form of a human man, a servant. Throughout his Gospel, St.John lays emphasis on our Lord's Divinity. His existence did not begin when He became man in Mary's womb, for before that He existed in eternity as the Word, one in substance with the Father and the Holy Spirit. This truth helps us understand everything that Jesus says and does as reported in the accounts of the Gospels. 

St.John's personal experience of Jesus' public ministry and His appearances after the Resurrection were the material on which he contemplated Jesus' Divinity and expressed it as "the Word of God". These 4 verses are as a hymn in praise of Christ.  

We know "the Word" is Jesus becasue of the next couple of verses 6-8,

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to give testimony of the light, that all men might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but was to give testimony of the light.

Verse 6 is John the Baptist and St. John came to give witness to "the light" which  is Jesus who Himself said He was the Light, the truth and the Way. 

Now read through verse 18 and you'll see there is no doubt whatsoever that the Word is Jesus.

Verses 9-18,

9 That was the true light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. 13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John beareth witness of him, and crieth out, saying: This was he of whom I spoke: He that shall come after me, is preferred before me: because he was before me.

16 And of his fulness we all have received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses; grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18 No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

on Jul 01, 2010

The word being with God and the word being God has nothing what so ever to do with Jesus. Jesus is not spoken of or named in that statement, and John definately knew Jesus. Whether or not John thought of Jesus as God is immaterial, Jesus did not. it is Jesus that is the final authority on who he was not John.

Of course it does.  There's a lot I could say here, but I'll refrain for now.  I have a question for you Whisper.  Why are you so adamant that Jesus is NOT God when the plain reading of scripture is quite clear HE is including His own words? 

When you read the gospels, that was the whole point.  They were divided over him.  Some said He was God or sent by God and some couldn't grasp it.  The ones who couldn't/wouldn't grasp it Christ said "would die in their sins."  He said this three times in John 8.  Whenever Jesus says anything 3X it's time to pay close attention. 

The age old dividing question will be as it has been in time past..."who do you say that I AM?"

He is the WORD.  What we do with this WORD determines where we spend eternity. 

"I said unto you that you shall die in your sins for if you believe NOT that I AM (YHWH) you shall die in your sins."  8:24

 

on Jul 07, 2010

John ,though he was an apostle of Jesus's, did not understand everything that he was taught.  He was a man and being such was prone to misunderstanding the words and intentions of others just as we all are.   This holds true for the other apostles as well.  They were quite often puzzled by Jesus's words, so much so that Jesus had to explain their meaning to them.  It is evidenced in scripture in the NT.  The only words that are totally explanatory of what Jesus meant by his words are those that Jesus explained himself. 

Why do I insist that Jesus is not God?.  Because he wasn't.  He was the son, he said so many times throughout scripture.  It was not for John or any other apostle to explain who Jesus was.  If John said that Jesus said that he was YHWH, where is the corroboration for such a statement?  None of the other apostles say such a thing.   John was not the favorite of Jesus, and unto John was not imparted the secret knowledge, not was it imparted to any of the other apostles.  It was imparted to a favorite who is not named, but read John again, and see for yourself.

Jesus was the "christ", which the original meaning of the word is "the enlightened one" or the "balanced one".  He was not God, he was the son of God.  He says this very clearly all throughout scripture.  When he says the "father and I are one" that doesn't mean that he is God.  It simply means that they are one because Jesus mirrors his father, and lives his life according to the dictates of God.

 

on Jul 07, 2010

"No man hath seen God at any time".  Is that right?  And just what pray tell would you call Adam?  A monkey?  Or how about Hennoch?  He who walked with God and was seen no more? 

Yes, Jesus was the witness.  He showed through his own actions and his own life that God the father can be totally relied upon for providing everything that was necessary for his life.  He showed what that kind of life and faith, can do for man, by living it himself.

John 8:21-30

"Again, therefore, Jesus said to them, "I go, and you will seek me, and in your sin you will die.  Where I go you cannot come."  The Jews therefore kept saying, "Will he kill himself, since he says, "Where I go you cannot come"?"  And he said to them, "You are from below, I am from above.  You are of this world, I am not of the world.  Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sin."  They therefore said to him, "Who are thou" Jesus said to them "Why do I speak to you at all!  I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you; but he who sent me is true, and the things that I heard from him, these I speak in the world."  And they did not understand that he was speaking to them about the Father.  Jesus therefore said to them, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that of myself  I do nothing: but that I preach only what the Father has taught me.  And he who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, because I do always the things that are pleasing to him."   When he was speaking  these things, many believed in him.

Strange isn't it, how Jesus always refers to God in the second person and not as himself?  How he always refers to God as being his father, as being always with him, because he does the things that are pleasing to him.   No where in scripture does Jesus ever refer to himself as being "God".    He does ask who the people think he is, and the answer is the "christ" or the messiah.   It is never God.  Your assumption that Jesus is God is simply an assumption based on the assumptions of others.  Unless Jesus himself says that he is God (and Jesus doesn't say so anywhere in scripture), than anything else said otherwise about him by anyone else is based on conjecture and not fact.

on Jul 07, 2010

BTW Jesus was not of this world.  He did not depend on himself, as others did in this world, to survive in it.  He depended totally upon God for everything.  Because of his lack of self concern he could see that heaven was all around us, and because of that very fact, he could enter it.  We can not see heaven, and even Jesus told us that we can't.  Ever wonder why?

on Jul 07, 2010

The One, True and Holy God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. This is the mystery of the Blessed Trinity of the One God.

Whisper2,

It seems to me the most simple way to understand that Christ is God is to carefully, prayerfully follow along with St. John 1 as he infallibly explains who "the Word" is.

He begins with this bit of God's own revelation about Himself....

verse 1, " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Now read further verses 6-8,

"There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to give testimony of the light, that all men might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but was to give testimony of the light."

 

Next, verse 14.....

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Put it all together.....

Verse 1...The Word was God....then verse 6-8, Christ is the LIght that all men might believe through Him....then verse 14 sums it up...The Word (God) was made Flesh and dwelt among us. (the Christ)

The Word is God and the Christ was God in the flesh.

 

 

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