About ten minutes walk from my house is a gigantic church building, Catholic.

In front of it is a huge sign that says "Refuge For Sinners".

And when I walked by it a priest was just walking in.

I had to laugh.

Lula, what are your standards for failure when it comes to organisations meant to uphold moral standards?

real life satire - better than watching tv.

Utemia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEAaUheLzGM

Explains everything, doesn't it?

KFC posts:

Re: the highlighted.

That massacre had no connection whatsoever with the Catholic Church. The Church did not instigate the massacre, nor did the Pope have any knowledge of it beforehand nor did he ever urge it upon the French Court in any way.  The massacre was a purely politically and deplorable murder engineered by Catherine de Medici, a woman almost completely irreligious. She planned the murder the evening before it took place to avert the possible consequences of her attempted assassination of Coligny on August 22.

After its occurence a lying report was sent to the Pope that it was a successful repression of a plat to murder the king. When the Pope learned the real facts, he expressed his horror and condemnation and denounced the massacre "as unlawful and forbidden by God." He refused to allow one of the leaders of the attack to be presented to him, saying he would not receive a murderer.

Most honest Protestant historians know the responsibility of the dastardly deed must rest on Catherine de Medicis.

 Also exactly how many were killed during the massacre will never be accurately known. The estimates range from 2,000 to 110, 000 which proves the figure is guesswork. An account book by the Abbe de Cavierac mentions the burial of 1,100 victims in the Cemetery of the Innocents, while the Huguenot Martyrology published in 1581, could only obtain the names of 786.

None of it is right KFC. 

You are the one who first brought up Protestants in majority Catholic Poland...

Are they allowed to vote?

I've still a ways to go before I am fully unpacked from the move. I know I have it somewhere that Catholics got the vote around the same time slavery was abolished in 1865. I did find this which makes sense becasue Catholic population greatly increased with the influx of Irish Immigrants to America after the famine in Ireland.   

1855 Connecticut adopts the nation's first literacy test for voting. Massachusetts follows suit in 1857. The tests were implemented to discriminate against Irish-Catholic immigrants.

lula posts:

kfc posts # 73

You say “no” but this is not new, for Protestantism consists of denials and substitutions for revealed Truth.

I say yes. St.Matt. 16:18-19 shows Christ established a very specific Church…He built His Church upon the rock of St.Peter which later would be called the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. Other passages support St.Matt. 16.  The CC holds Christ to be the Eternal Rock, the invisible Foundation of His Church and that He selected St.Peter as the secondary rock upon which He built His visible Church, which is His Mystical Body. Just as Christ is the Good Shepherd, yet He selected St. Peter to be the Shepherd of His flock, ’’”Feed My lambs,” “Feed My sheep”. That’s why Christ is called the Good Shepherd and the Pope is called the Shepherd of Christendom.

Christ also called this Divine spiritual society His household 10:25, His flock, 26:31 and 36 times “the kingdom”. The Church is the spiritual kingdom of the Messias. It stands to reason that such a household, flock, kingdom, or Church must have someone in it who ranks in authority, who has primacy, the first rank. St.Matt 16 tells us that person was St.Peter, appointed by Christ Himself.  St.Matt. 16 tells us that Chris told gave St.Peter His authority to make decisions and that He would back them in Heaven. Since Jesus promised to be with His Church until the end of time, that same authority would have to remain with whomever succeeded St.Peter and the other Apostles down through the ages.  That continuance necessitates successors and their authority is the teaching Magisterium of the CC.

Because the Church is part Divine with Christ as her Eternal Head and Chief Cornerstone, the Church is indestructible. Because the Church was Divinely established to exist during all time, she’s not capable of being destroyed from attacks from without or from within. That’s what the gates of hell will not prevail means. All the other churches will come and go but the CC will last until the end of time…as she is the Bride of Christ, the wife of the Lamb who will eat at one table at the wedding banquet.  

Like I said, Protestantism consists of substitutions for revealed Truth.

Christ gave His authority and power “to bind and loose on earth” to His Church starting with St.Peter and then the  Apostles..As the Book of Acts clearly points out, the Apostles passed on their authority and power by ordaining other good men by the laying on of hands and not to “all believers in many denominations.”

Claim what you will, but there is not one Protestant believer who has Divine authority “to bind and loose”.

Looks like a few posts are missing?

Update: Explanation on top of page.

Good to see Zoomba is still around.

Exactly. That authority lies with the Assyrian Church of the East alone.

Now, disprove my thesis.

Well Catholic means "universal."  So from that definition Christ did create a "catholic (universal) church" but he did NOT set up the denomination that we know today is the RCC. 

Sorry to see that because I prepared a rather lengthy response to Lula regarding her assertion that it was Jews who were persecuting the Christian Jews in and around Rome and not the pagan Roman empire.  I mentioned Nero, Domitiian and Diocletian among others.  It was NOT Jews who persecuted the Christians it was Rome who eventually got on board and took over what they couldn't put a stop to from Constantine onward. 

says who?  You?  Jesus at the first here in Matthew 16 and later in 18:18 gave this "authority" to Jews.  Not Catholics.  Not Protestants but Jews.  Do you even know what it means to "bind and loose?" 

well having it somewhere is not good enough Lula.  You made a statement and I've looked and can't find the facts surrounding it.  Also, the fact that you failed to mention it wasn't just Catholics but also Jews and Quakers etc not being allowed to vote is showing that you are not being totally honest here. 

those men were believers in all different churches.  The church was started by different groups meeting in homes.  That was it.  No church buildings back then.  They met in homes.  There was the Church of Ephesus, The Church of Phillipi.  The Church at Colosse etc.  All they had was the scriptures.  Later, the denominations took hold.  Some strayed big time from the truth; others did not.   But even in Paul's day he wrote about the heretical believers even then saying to avoid them.  He said this:

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philisophy and vain deceit, after the TRADITION of men, after the rudiments of the world and not after Christ."   Col 2:8

So nothing's changed.  Today there is a new movement that is gaining momentum quietly.  "Churches" (called out ones) are starting to meet in homes again.  I believe this is going to be the prominent way for believers to congregate in the future.  The churches are filled with unbelievers today wreaking all sorts of havoc in the churches.  Church has become either a big business or a social club.  For the Christians walking in the spirit, the only answer soon will be to do what the genuine early Christians did.  Fellowship by meeting together in small groups once again, praying, reading and singing together as they did back then.    Back to a relationship with the Savior (as the Apostles had) rather than traditions and prideful religiousity that has taken over the churches today. 

The Apostle John tells us to "test the spirits" to see where they are from.  I'm constantly reminded of this when I look around at all the stuff going on personally, locally and nationally.   This is the latest coming out of the London Times.  Again which spirit can we see here?

Sex abuse scandals in the Roman Catholic Church are proof that that "the Devil is at work inside the Vatican", according to the Holy See's chief exorcist.

Father Gabriele Amorth, 85, who has been the Vatican's chief exorcist for 25 years and says he has dealt with 70,000 cases of demonic possession, said that the consequences of satanic infiltration included power struggles at the Vatican as well as "cardinals who do not believe in Jesus, and bishops who are linked to the Demon".

He added: "When one speaks of 'the smoke of Satan' [a phrase coined by Pope Paul VI in 1972] in the holy rooms, it is all true – including these latest stories of violence and pedophilia."

He claimed that another example of satanic behavior was the Vatican "cover-up" over the deaths in 1998 of Alois Estermann, the then commander of the Swiss Guard, his wife and Corporal Cedric Tornay, a Swiss Guard, who were all found shot dead. "They covered up everything immediately," he said. "Here one sees the rot".

A remarkably swift Vatican investigation concluded that Corporal Tornay had shot the commander and his wife and then turned his gun on himself after being passed over for a medal. However, Tornay's relatives have challenged this. There have been unconfirmed reports of a homosexual background to the tragedy and the involvement of a fourth person who was never identfied.

As far as coverups I know firsthand this is true.  My Dad worked for a big city Fire Dept.  Whenever there was any sort of crime scene in the 60's and 70's regarding the RCC they had a much different protocol for handling the emergency than normal procedure including shutting off all sirens and lights. 

KFC posts #73

First, God calls everyone to Himself…it’s how we respond to His call that makes all the difference.   “Called out ones”…..We begin to answer the call when we receive new life in Christ at our Baptism and are made a child of God in His Mystical Body, the Church and an heir of Heaven.

73

Ah, your ol’ line … “The Church is believers in many denominations” again. Like repeating is going to make it true. Ha!  I laugh when I read this. You’ve admitted what we’ve known all along ……that this definition of  “Church” comes from  the Protestant forefathers….Calvin, then picked up by Luther  and carried down through the generations.  The Church is believers …believers in many denominations is a Protestant construct that has been being passed down for generations. It’s a protest against the Church designed to deny her Divine origin and uniquesness of Catholicism.

Under your definition each believer reads the Bible for himself and comes up with his own interpretation and thus doctrinal variations arise. In my mind, hundreds of conflicting interpretations of Christ’s teachings do not/can not add up to the true interpretation of Christ’s teachings.  

The CC has an unbroken historical record of existence since the first Pentecost Day. The Papal succession continuous from St.Peter to Pope Benedict XVI proves that the CC has existed for over 2,000 years despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s Divine origin and the protection of the Holy Spirit, while all those thousands of “denominations” came into existence 1500 years after the CC because of some person’s newfangled ideas;  thus the reason there is no UNITY whatsoever among them.

When teaching the Mystical Body of Christ, His Church, St.Paul said the unity is in “one body, One Spirit, one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism” Eph. 4:4-6.  Ephesians 4:4-6 does not fit to the Protestant definition of  “Church” nor to all the different Protestant denominations.

Kfc posts:

But Christ said, "And I tell you, you are Peter and on this rock I will build My Chruch, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven, and whatsoever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven." St.Matt. 16: 18-19.

To assert that the Catholic Church is not the same as the early Church that functioned during the first few centuries, is a denial of Christ. It’s like saying to Christ: “the gates of hell you said would not prevail, did prevail against the Church you established.” Of course your statement doesn’t say this right out, but this is inferred in your claim that all believers in many denominations are the Church of Christ.   

Re: the highlighted.....So says the PROTEST-ant.

The one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church, like her Founder, is both human and divine. The Divine part of the Church is expressed correctly as the Mystical Body of Christ. The human part are those baptized into new life in Christ. Scripture, St.Matt. chapters 16-18, is dogmatically clear that Our Lord Jesus Christ  founded a Church as the way to bring His salvific message to the world.  

This is why the CC is not a denomination like all those that arose after 1517. Protestant denominations (sects) are constantly being remade by their members...their faith, doctrines adapt according to the age or culture. Not so with the CC..with her God-given authoratitave priesthood her constant and unchangeable teachings of Christ to His Apostles passed down through the ages.

As far as explaining why the CC and Catholicism is not denomination, George Weigel said it best...I'll paraphrase...

Protestant denominations are human created and something Protestants join....The CC is a Divinely instituted society into which her members are made new in Christ by the Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation and the Holy Eucharist.

Protestant denominatons have members like a club...the CC has members as a human body has arms, legs, fingers and toes.

Protestant denominations are all over the place doctrinally and morally....the CC is nourished by Creeds and moral convictions that clearly establish set boundaries. 

Protestant denominations can be altered at the will of its members...the CC has a form and structure given to it by Christ...her ministerial priesthood according to the order of Melchisedech with St.Peter's successors, the Bishop of Rome, who presides over the whole Church in charity, becasue Christ wills these for His Church.

There are Biblical metaphors for the CC that do not fit all the Protestant denominatons. The Church is a sheepfold, the sole and necessary gateway to which is Christ. St.john 10:1-10. It's also a flock, of which God foretold that He Himself would be the SHepherd, Is. 40:11; Ezek. 34:11. and whose sheep although watched over by human shepherds are nevertheless at all times led and brought to pasture by Christ Himself, the Good Shepherd and prince of shepherds. 10:11; 1St.Peter 5:4 and who gave His life for the sheep. 10:11-15.

There are Biblical images drawn from architechiture to describe the CC that do not fit all the Protestant denominations. The Church is the "building of God" 1Cor. 3:9 whose Cornerstone is Christ St.Matt. 21:42. Built by the Apostles on the one "Foundation Eternal Rock" which is Christ 1Cor. 3:11 with the Apostles as the foundation stones, with St.Peter as the head St.Matt. 16:18-19. The CC is the "household of God in the Spirit", the dwelling place of God among men Apoc. 21:3; and the holy temple ....as living stones we here on earth are built into it 1St.Peter 2:5. The CC is also as the Holy city, and the holy city is described as "the Jerusalem which is above" Gal. 4:26, and the "spotless spouse of the Lamb" Apoc. 19:7 whom Christ "loved and for whom He delivered Himself taht He might sanctify her" Eph. 5:25-26.

hogwash Lula.