What supernatural things have you seen?

Supernatural?  Everything there is is of God, so nothing is 'supernatural".  Even so if I told you what I've seen what good would that do you?  Would you believe me?  Not likely, so why should I bother?  It would be a waste for us both.  It's up to you to try see what you consider "supernatural", it's the only way that you will ever believe it.

All of this is pretty much a waste for everyone.

Yes, I know that it's a lousy pat answer, sorry.  However you can do this thing, there's nothing stopping you but you.

Then why do you bother?  There must be something that you are looking for even if it's just to belittle everyone else here.  I think that it's more than that, but I could be wrong.

Since KFC's new article seems to be pretty much forgotten, here's one of her posts and my reply.

Turn back Evolution and progress? Be just as stuck in the dark ages as they are? I've never heard such bullshit. They should catch up with us.

Terrorists think the same way.

It's both fact and my belief.

But you're focusing on their immaturity in the faith and the beginning of their ministries.  Look at how they ended their lives and their ministries.  Remember it's not how you start a race that's important; it's all in the finish.  Have you ever heard of an 85 meter race? 

Yes, absolutely.  That's why he asked questions.  When God said to Adam "where are you?"  it wasn't because He didn't know where Adam was, it was because He wanted Adam to know where he was. 

Now this is where we have to split as we're going to have to agree to disagree.  I've already worn out two bibles in the last 10 years as a result of my very intensive studies and I don't see any of what you see here.  Paul didn't start out humble, agree but he sure ended up that way in order to be used of God.  I believe God used Paul as he did Moses.  Moses also was a very learned man in a high position.  In Paul's case he was to go before Kings and those in high positions which he did.  His learning brought him into King's courts and Governor's mansions.  He used him in a diff way than he did with the others.  Paul was a born leader; a shaker and mover. He had lots of energy.   But what God had to do first was to bring him low enough so that he had to look up which is exactly what Paul did.  His previous persecution of the people of God was always a regret in the back of his mind and the reason he called himself the "least of the Apostles."

I think Paul definitely had the personality to have been as you say but God made sure that Paul didn't get too full of himself by bringing Paul thru the persecutions he went through and sending him the thorn in the flesh to keep him humble.  Think about it, he spent much time in jail, and for a man of his reputation this had to be humbling not to mention the many times he was beaten like a common criminal. 

no this cleaning purification that I'm speaking of has nothing to do with only women.  Although woman also had to go thru it like you mentioned...after birth.   Remember when Jesus was criticized by the Pharisees because his disciples didn't wash before they ate?  The Jews had all sorts of purification rituals. Like everything else their traditions superceded the word of God.  They could be defiled by touching a corpse or a leper.  That was biblical but they added so many more rules putting a burden on the people like they were trying to force on Christ and his disciples. 

The Jews understood from scripture that the water meant cleansing Ezek 36:24-27.  In the OT water is used symbolically especially in conjunction with the spirit as cleansing Numbers 19:17-19, Jer 2:13, Ps 119:9 for instance.  In John Chap 3 Jesus was making reference to Nicodemus about spiritual cleansing or purification of the soul by the HS thru the Word of God. 

"He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit whom he poured out on us generously thru Jesus Christ our Savior."  Titus 3:5-6

That's why I say this makes more sense than circumcision.  Besides, circumcision was only given to the Jews and only for Jewish males.  It has nothing to do with the NT baptism which was for both male and female. 

Water is used as a physical example of the Holy Spirit.  So if the purification rituals were for both man and women in the OT and circumcision were only for males doesn't it make more sense that the water purification of the OT is a better example for the NT baptism than what you're saying circumcision is? 

It is only your belief.

have to say Leauki you are quite correct.  Lula has to agree with this because of the whole RCC and the infant baptism thing.  That's why she's been taught this way.  It's just not correct theology.  Agree with you. 

The fact is, neither circumcision nor water baptism (gasp) saves anyone.  Circumcision was ONLY given to the Jews and any in their household as a matter of obedience and to stand apart from the other nations.  God also knew how healthy this would be for them.  In fact...it was just in the news last week about the benefits of circumcision.  Big article.  In it they mentioned that heterosexuals were actually more protected from HIV if they were circumcised in comparison to those men that were not.  When it came to homosexuals (I thought this was interesting) it didn't make any difference at all.  In other words if a homo was circumcized or not he was still in the same high risk category of contacting HIV if involved in risky behavior. 

No, this is not theologically correct but I don't want to go here Lula.  That's not what this blog is about.  Let's stick to the subject matter of "you can know" ok? 

great questions Whisper.    I know the answers to your questions but really this isn't about baptism but about the fact that one can know he/she is going to heaven.  Full assurance.  In case you haven't been around long Lula keeps trying to bring up infant baptism on almost every blog I write and I keep telling her to stop because she doesn't accept what the scriptures have to say but only what the Catechism of the RCC teaches.  That's why I don't want to go there.   This blog or any of my blogs are about the RCC and their beliefs.

I didn't think it was a pat answer Whisper.  I actually thought it was a truthful one.  I would have said the same thing.  But he can't do this thing unless God opens his eyes to Him first.  Christ said we can do nothing unless the Father draws us first. 

"But you're focusing on their immaturity in the faith and the beginning of their ministries.  Look at how they ended their lives and their ministries.  Remember it's not how you start a race that's important; it's all in the finish.  Have you ever heard of an 85 meter race? "

It is for that very lack of faith and immaturity that their ideas are to be doubted.  They had all the information Jesus made sure of that, and they were witnesses.  What more proof do you think that they were in need of to shore up their faith?  If they had an immature faith tell me why did they think that they could minister to those of no faith?  As to the finish of their race, and the effectiveness of their ministries.........the jury is still out...........the race is not over yet, not until the end of time.

"Paul didn't start out humble, agree but he sure ended up that way in order to be used of God."

Why would God chose a man that was not humble to begin with?  A man full of himself hasn't the time or inclination to listen to the holy spirit.  As to his ending up humble...........that's a matter of opinion.  God did nothing to Paul that God hasn't done or will do to every human being living, dead, or to yet be born.  That doesn't make him an apostle of Jesus's.  No does his being sorry for what he did make him one.  It just makes him sorry, the fact that he calls himself the least of the apostles doesn't mean anything at all either.  The fact is that he was never an apostle.  Yes Moses was a learned man, a learned man who became a common nobody, a shepard, a profession that leads to humility.  It wasn't until after Moses had become a nobody that God chose him.  Paul was never a nobody, not his entire lifetime, not even when he was jailed or beaten.

I'm impressed with the fact that you've worn out two bibles, but I'd be more impressed if you'd worn your "self" out following in Jesus's footsteps.  I personally think that it would change you in ways that you can't even begin to imagine................no mind however, it's not an easy path to choose, and it must be chosen willingly. 

This is a blog?  I thought this was a forum where people discussed things not a blog.  Tell me is there no difference?  I find it most unusual that you say "He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit whom he poured out on us generously thru Jesus Christ our Savior."  

It doesn't sound much like baptism by water at all to me.  It sounds like something altogether different.

it is...that was my point.  This is speaking of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.  The physical baptism (by water) is a picture of the baptism of the Holy Spirit which only comes by God himself.  In the OT the ceremonial cleansing would be akin to our NT baptism. 

Again, you've assumed I don't follow in Christ's footsteps.  Let me just say this..."right thinking precedes right living." 

oh and btw Whisper, you gave me inspiration to write this new blog when you brought up the part about Christ making us think:  http://kfc.joeuser.com/article/363323/Do_You_Have_Ears_To_Hear

lula posts:

Leauki posts:

LEAUKI,

Then you are either ignorant of the Old Testament or deluding yourself concerning actual Jewish history.

Deut. 7 tells us that Isreal became a "chosen people" through Abraham selected by God. Gen. 17:5 tells us that Abram was to be magnified, that is "the father of many nations". The children of Isreal (later called the Jews), were chosen by God to be the keepers, teachers and interpreters of His law. This law included a priesthood from the tribe of Levi, and the selection of Judah as the tribe from which the promised Messias, the Son of David,  would come to fulfill the Law.

The Jews were especially favored by being the people from whom all the great prophets came, through whom God told the world of the great things that would take place in Isreal until "God Himself would come and save them" Is. 35:4; 40:10.

The Jews werre the only selected people to whom God made a cocovenant, a contract so to speak, in the days before the coming Messiah. This covenant was bilateral in the sense that the reward God promised would go to the "elect" IF they were faithful to His commands and prophecies. Read Exodus 19, where God told Moses to tell the Jews that---"IF you will hear my voice and keep My covenant, ....and you shall be to Me a priestly kingdom and a holy nation."

Aside from the fact that the Jews are no longer a "priestly kingdom" being without the Temple or sacrifices, there stands the command of Moses Deut. 18:15, (read it it would do you good), whihc they fail to obey that bars present day Jews from calling themselves God's "chosen people". Moses commanded that they "hear" or listen to the "PROPHET" God would send whom "thou shalt hear."    

The Abrahamic-Mosaic contract was fulfilled 21 centuries ago by Christ, a spiritual King whose reign will last forever. The King of the Jews came, the priesthood, sacrifices and Temple of the Jews ceased to exist. there is no House of David in existence today in which a future son of David can be born, again being no longer needed as the Abrahamic -Mosaic contract was fulfilled.

The mission that was once given to the Jews exclusively, that through them the world would be brought to belief in the ONe True God was given by the Messianic King of the Jews to His Chruch, the body commissioned to "go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.".

The Jews of today, like most of their forefathers in Jerusalem, have become God's wayward children, by their rejection of the Son of David. Pay attention to this...the "children of the promise" (those who accepted Christ then and today as the Prophet Moses said should be heard) are the chosen people and not the present day Jews who reject or deny Him.

This is not to say that God has abondoned them, for the very existence of the Jews proves that God has not cast them off as St.Paul says in Romans 11. Christ awaits on the Cross, with outstretched arms, their coming into His embrace. then will the remnant of Isreal, regenerated through Baptism be numbered among the chosen people.