Or the very idea that there is a 'higher' to anything is not rational.

What darkness KFC? What blindness? I see the evils of the world, and I cannot stand them. I do not abide evil or it's lesser minions. Does that mean I am in darkness? Or, that I am evil? I beg to differ.

*bites tongue*

KFC, that's according to you and your belief set. Likewise, ignorance of the world and what it is, and what encompasses it and makes it - is also not wise. I believe a wise man once said, "To know the world and all it is and has become; to know all its pieces and wonders, seems prudent. Only then can you value and cherish His work."

Addendum:

Lula, we were talking about existance and all recently on another thread. I wanted to add a quote to the discussion, because I find it very apt.

"We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.”

The man is right. Setting aside, for a moment, where we were - Your thoughts, what your mind (and heart) says about life, and son on...do they not make the world, or at least...your world? That's what I'm talking about when it comes to others beliefs. While there is the world as a whole...our existance, our world...is largely based of of our thoughts/beliefs, of which their are countless varieties.

On the contrary. When it comes to creation...just as you claim that there is none higher than God, that your God is the alpha and omega and created the world. What if, say, that your belief in spontaneous creation...was without a God? It's logical.

Precisely

kfc posts:

Yes, KFC, this is so very, very important. To any and all who truly want to know God, they need only to reach out and call Him. Say a simple prayer. And not if, but when He responds, for them be open...in other words, don't harden your heart.

are you serious Lucas?  You think JW's coming to your door is the same as the homosexuals invaded everything? Not even close. 

When was the last JW parade marching down your street?  When was the last time you saw JW's appealing to the Supreme Court to force us to do anything?  When was the last time you saw textbooks in school change to say that the JW agenda was as normal and cohesive as mainstream religion.....and you have to believe it to be true?  When was the last JW programming you saw on tv in comparison to all the homosexual stuff in our face now?  When was the last time you heard of any hate crime bills encacted for the benefit of the JW's?   

Yesterday a friend who is a nurse at a very large hospital found out that there was a problem with a co-worker.  She has worked with this gay guy for over five years and they always got along.  My friend is a strong Christian but she never was unkind to him and they were considered friendly.  Then one day this guy who we'll call Will went off on her because of something she didn't do right like change the bed properly or make sure a room was clean.  So Will went to the big boss and complained about her.  When pressed by the big boss, who thought this was all quite strange, Will made a comment about her harrassment of him being gay.  When pressed even more Will said that when he first came to work there (5 years ago) my friend asked his sexual preference.  So the big boss asked Will if he would like to press charges.  After much discussion Will decided he really didn't want to. 

My friend went ballistic when she heard this.  It was not true, none of it.  Her boss believed her.  She was actually crying.  The big boss told her that she was going to have to apologize anyway and say that she was sorry if she offended him, which she did when they got together the next day.  But she never did offend.  She had no choice but to apologize for something she never did.  The big boss said to her privately you don't mess with gays and you don't mess with blacks. 

That's where we're going right now.  And that's not even close to comparing with the JW's. 

You make it sound like there's some war going on.

Your point? Apparently you don't like homosexuals practicing their freedom of speech. You can't have it bothe ways KFC, either you support their right to do such, or you don't.

Actually, none of the textbooks I had in high school (minus, science, math, etc.)  talked about homosexuality, none. (I should know, I still have them all - heck, I even went through them to double check) They did; however, talk about religion, and in a very positive light. Hmm, must just be a case of my school being the way it is.

Unfortunately, what you get is a small sampling. None of my teachers ever told me I had to believe a certain way, what they did was teach us the basics: math, reading, writing, critical thinking, etc. You're either speaking absurdly, or using a small sample - a case here or there - to justify your points.

And? You still have a choice KFC.

A. Gay's expressing their freedom of speech/assembly? -- Close the blinds or walk away.

B. Textbooks in your highschool not sitting with you right? -- Talk to the school or enroll your child in a private school. Also, it can be done, it just depends on your priorities, on what is important to you.

C. Something on TV you don't like?  -- Change the channel, I do whenever I (rarely) watch TV

D. Don't think there is a hate crime bill for religious folks? Setting aside the fact that a very large portion of the world is religious - so it would be like saying that we need a bill for the color red, to protect it from...red. Not saying it's silly, but the likely hood of any christian attacking a christian or such...is kinda nill. It's comparing apples to oranges. Sorry, but constitution already deals with that KFC.

This world is not your world to make to your liking or rules - it is a world where we all have to learn to live together, like it or not. That's the way the world is.

As for your friend:

I'm sorry that she (as you claim) didn't do it. I admit, it seems suspicious that the man waited so long, and the Boss' bias is also in question. (I mean, if you're managing something...you really shouldn't be biased...when you walk in the door, it is time to put your managers hat on - period.)

Still, if she did do what he claimed...then she did it. I don't know her, so I can't say much beyond that.

Also: What business is it of your friend to know someone's orientation? Why is it wrong to be offended by someone's comments (if it happened)?

Face it KFC, it goes both ways...example. You have the religoius who get offended by gays, and vice versa.

Also, KFC, would you mind addressing the rest of my comments; I've addressed all of yours. Thanks.

Oh, and something I found intersting...

"The current hate crime law does protect people of different races, national origins and religions. But it does not protect people on the basis of four other criteria: gender, sexual orientation, sexual identity and disability."

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_LGBT-related_hate_crime_law_in_the_United_States.svg

There it shows that a decent gap between sexual orientation/identity, and hate crime legislation. That being said, I will agree that the legislation they're trying to get through should be carefully worded.

Sorry, Lucas but all I see you doing here is pushing buttons.  I'm not interested.  Good debates and thoughtful responses, great.  But that's not what I'm getting from you lately. 

You're so blind and subjective I don't even know where to start.  It's so obvious how you're going to answer it's not even worth my time to speak with you honestly.  You don't have one objective bone in your body.  Do you know that?

No matter what I say you will always take the contrary approach.  For instance I just told you an honest story and yet you reply with this? 

you automatically go for the gay guy's side?  Automatically.  I just got done telling you she never said anything about his orientation yet you ask "what business is it of your friend to know someone's orientation??????? 

*shakes head*.....I'd rather talk to a brick wall Lucas. 

I honestly don't think you're taking any time to digest what is being written and what you're saying.  You're way too quick on the draw to write something, you're not even paying attention to what you're saying.  It's getting more and more obvious. 

Of course I am, and like I said:

Just because I don't agree with you head to foot doesn't mean I'm not taking any time.

KFC, my mo is that if i don't know anything about someone, then i can't say much about them save my observations. Even then, I willingly admit that I could be wrong.

Again, I will state it...I don't know the person, and it does seem suspicious. That being said, due to my nature, I am just not going to take someone's side in a dispute from someone's comments on it.

As for the questions, it was to open up discussion. My bad, when I'm curious I ask questions.

Normally that's because you and I believe differently...

Buahahahahahaha!

Pfft, look who's talking KFC; Pot meet Kettle. Granted, I will admit that I am skeptical and not objective when it comes to some things.; however, I would have to say...when it comes to most things...I'm much more than you are. 

So really...meet the kettle.

Since I've still got a couple minutes until my job interview, I'll refine what I said even more:

I do not know your friend; I don't know what she is like, I don't know anything about her. All I have when it comes to what happened is your word. I'm taking your word for it KFC, but, as my nature dictates...I'm still skeptical. That's just my nature, which I cannot change. Anytime I hear about something having happened, I take it as hearsay and suspicious - even if it is from my dearest friends. *shrugs* Again, it's the way I am.

That being said, as such, I leave it open to the fact that either:

A) She didn't do it, and the man was wrong.

She did do it, and the man was right.

Admittedly, I'm actually leaning more toward A. Oddly enough...

That help?

~Alderic

Alderic Jourdain posts:

The reason comes from God's word to us in Genesis.....the reason is to "be fruitful and multiply" in other words, the reason is to keep the human race going.

AldericJourdain posts:

Ah, no....I'm not here to proselytize or recruit. My interest lies in Catholic apologetics and I do my best to defend the Catholic Church and the true Christian Faith to other Catholics as well as to any one who is ignorant of them or for whatever reason bashes them.

Yes, I know we are a pluralistic society and also that not everyone wants to hear what I may say, but that doesn't change the fact that there is but one truth when it comes to the One God, Christ, religion, faith, the Church. etc.  

And besides that, who comes into these discussions without expecting to be engaged? And no matter who we are,  who can't learn a thing or two from dialogue providing it's done with respect for the other person? Isn't that what makes dialogue useful?

This makes me giggle, only because it was the same thing my father thought....and now he has anywhere from 13 to 36 children. Anyways, setting aside the personal dealings - I'm not quite sure I get your point, mind clarifying?

First off, my apologies. When I say you, or your (or the like) - it's mean in a very generalized, rhetorical way.

What gets me ticked off, is when there are those who claim to be doing God's work, but only make things worse. Yes, they have their beliefs and the freedom of speech, but those are not the only things in the wordl and their belief is not the only belief in the world. If these people, the ones that are adding to the chaos, were...wise, or aware enough - then that is great, no, fantastic.

Perhaps, I can't say much because I don't believe in there being one truth.

Exactly, respect. That's what I keep trying to hit at. Both sides in this so called "Culture War," fail to respect each other. And that goes for atheists, liberals, secularists, etc as much as it does for their opposites.

Hence, live and let live. The world has enough chaos and disorder and hate and violence - with or without God - why add to the destruction? Why cause more problems?

Really, all I ask/expect in a debate is respect, and an attempt to try to step outside of that box they build for themselves. Take a look at things through other people's eyes, because maybe, just maybe...in it can be found a way to heal the world.

You know?

~Alderic

aldericjourdain posts:

post #90

But who is shoving what things onto others? Why don't you apply your admonition to those shoving the homosexual agenda? 

First of all, it goes without saying that I realize, understand and accept that we are a diverse people, so that's not the point.

I'm not judging people who call themselves homosexuals, but rather, I'm judging their sexual behavior which the radicals amongst them flaunt and attempt to force acceptance of.  

Besides my religion, on grounds of conscience, common sense, and knowledge of basic biology, I refuse to accept, condone or acknowledge that homosexuality is normal, natural, respectable or good.

Following that, to use your own words......the world doesn't need those people shoving forced acceptance of homosexuality upon society (and me since I am not an island but a part of society) through unconstitional anti-discrimination and marriage laws.

Same can be said of abortion...the world doesn't need those people shoving forced acceptance of the practice of abortion upon society through unelected supreme court justices who have no authority to make constitutional law.

Hmmm....perhaps in your world of moral relativity, you will defend how the practice of homosexuality is good for society. Maybe you could convince the national blood banks to change their policy and take blood from those who openly practice homosexuality and bisexuality. 

In response, use your own words:

I agree...there certainly are those persons in the homosexual lifestyle who live very quiet and discreet lives.