As an addendum to my earlier post: Ben Stein is a bigger charlatan than Dawkins is reported to be. Just Google a bit and see. The film is a farce!

Someone went click happy...

like I've said a hundred times....depends on who you're listening to.

This is probably one of the best arguments I have read on this site. Great questions, awesome responses and the best attitudes in a discussion I have seen in a while. I have learned so much on this article alone. I will definitely see this movie though I seriously doubt I will read any of the books mentioned since I am not much of a book reader.

I believe in God because I was raised as a Catholic and it's my personal belief. Apart from the fact that I have had experiences in my life that lead me to believe even more. But I am also a see to believe kinda person (which is why my experiences make me more of a believer) and while I can not completely go with what most religions believe God is and what he/she is all about, I have my own beliefs in what he wants from us.

Like zoo, I need some kind of proof of the existence of something to truly say it exist. I am not all for the "I believe it's true just because I believe it, regardless of proof". As I said before I have had my proof that is good enough for me. But I can not argue the existence since I have no real evidence to support my experiences, only my memory, as zoo said, I can not argue that God truly exist. I can only say I believe he does.



And that comment right there is my point. Faith is not proof or evidence and therefor you can not say, with certainty that "you know" because the reality is you don't know, you believe. To know something and claim you know is to have proof and like me, you only have your faith and experiences as proof which will only be seen as either "it's you right to believe" or "you're just crazy". Now I am not saying God does not exist, I just can't prove it to anyone but myself. And while some may be thinking "as long as you know you need not to prove to anyone else", if you go around saying "you know" then you best be prepared to prove it because people will expect nothing less and you can not expect others to simple accept such a thing, just like courts expect to have proof or evidence of a crime in order to sentence the accused. Innocent till proven guilty says it all.



Wow, never fails that with all the smart comments made on this article, there is always one to ruin it all. Is that all you are good for cscoles? Seriously, some comments should be kept with the owners and not shared with the rest of us.

Finally saw it. Felt exactly as adnauseum wrote. It was a ridiculous sham passed off as 'investigation' and 'reporting', built chock-full of lies and obfuscation.

Truly entertaining. I haven't laughed that hard at a movie since 'Superbad'.

We who follow Christ know that's just the beginning. It takes more than just a knowledge of Christ. It takes a committment to him. When you commit your life to Him you start to see some amazing things happen in your life that will give you that proof you so desire.



Well it's not about your beliefs that matter really. It's all about him not us. For instance:

when asked why you should be let into heaven you may say because "I've done more good than bad." You may imagine yourself standing in front of God one minute after you die trying to explain this to him. You may imagine a set of scales before you making a case that the side with good deeds is heavier than the side with bad deeds.

Well........in your opinion. It appears to be.

But......

it's God's opinion that counts. And he says....

"your deeds are like filthy rags to me". Our righteousness is no good according to his word and that's why he sent his son.


That's his opinion. So now you're left to try and re answer the question...."why should you be allowed into heaven?"

He sent his son to clean up our mess. But first we have to allow him into our lives. First we must commit to him. That's when the cleanup of our lives takes place.



First off I want to be clear that our faith is not in the unknown. Our faith is in the unseen.

Now if you really really want this proof you must go to the one who will give it to you. Ask him. Go to God and ask him for this proof.

Then keep your eyes open. He said if you seek him out he will be found.

good, kudos for seeing it. What were the lies? It's funny but I've been writing about this "sham" and discussing with my son and here about this "sham" for about three years. Way before this movie came out and said exactly what we'd been saying all along.

My favorite guy was the guy in Europe that was kind of slouched in his seat. Can't remember is name. I found him to be very credible and honest in his statements. Did you?

Well I can't imagine myself explaining anything to him cause otherwise he would not be God. He knows all, sees all as far as I believe. In the end, it does not matter what I think, I don't believe God needs a scale to determine where I belong. We know what we have done and we know what could happen. It's a matter of if we are willing to accept our fate after death. And considering it is God who decides where we go, I have to believe that what I believe does matter otherwise what would be the point of doing right or wrong or the 10 commandments if my fate was predetermined from day 1?



In the end it's obvious I am not perfect. With that said it's obvious no matter what I do, no matter how hard I try, I will always do something that to some would probably mean I may go to hell. As a person, i do what i can to do the right thing and I know no matter how hard I try I will not always succeed, after all this is a dog eat dog world and unless you are willing to die for your principles, chances are you will break the rules from time to time.



Which is why I said I am a see to believe kinda person. But when i say see to believe I am more pointing towards all our senses. For example I don't know music exist unless I can hear or even feel it, same as air.



I think you missed the part where I said "personal experiences" that reinforced my belief. After all, I was created to be a see to believe, it's not my fault I need some kind of proof, which as far as I'm concerned I have gotten before and continue to get. Not that I keep asking for it.

None of us are pefect. Not one. Even the great Apostle Paul said "I do that which I don't want to do and don't do that which I want to do."

If you go to hell it's only because you trusted in yourself instead of God. His way is the only way. You trust and follow him and he gives you eternal life.



We are all made that way to begin with. Jesus called it spiritual blindness. Yes, we can see physically but we can't see spiritually. To see God is to see him through the eyes of faith. REad Hebrews Chap 11. It's called the Faith Hall of Fame and see how they did it.



I'm not getting this whole paragraph. You say you need proof and then you say as far as you know you have gotten before and continue to get? Huh?

OK, lets see if this makes sense. Because I am a see to believe kinda person, I have to be able to be aware of something in order to believe it. Because I was raised a Catholic, I believe in God but I can't help but question his existence because of my see to believe nature. It's not something i can simply turn off like a switch. But I have had several personal experiences that have lead me to believe God does exist (my personal belief) and to this date i continue to see things that continue to reinforce my belief in God. Not that i am looking for more proof, I just see it and simply add to that which I have already experienced.

Some of my experiences have been when I needed help the most it seems to "fall out of the sky". I believe I have a guardian angel that watches over me because I have found myself in situations where I should not be alive today and have been lucky enough to either walk away with barely a scratch, avoid it all together buy, what many would consider, pure luck and/or gotten out of situations where all hope seems to be lost and by, what many would consider, a miracle I manage to got myself out of. As bad as I may believe I have it, I have been lucky enough to get away from many things without a scratch and I have much better than I believe I do. That's why my faith is reinforced. I have experienced what I consider to be miracles.

My issue is not with my religion, it's with the people who preach it, teach it and sometimes over-believe it.

ok so you do believe in God. That's a great first step. I was brought up Catholic as well. It doesn't really matter how you start a race. It's all in the finish. Is it not?

So where do you go from here? My suggestion?

Get yourself an easy to read study bible and start learning about the God you know exists. A life application study bible would be a good one or at least just a simple NIV (New International Version).

If you want to know someone you take an interest in them. You find out about him/her and you establish a relationship with this person. It's the same with God. In order to get to know him you can read his letters to you. He wrote them to us in order for us to understand where he's coming from.

That's why Jesus said only the ones he knows (personally) will be able to enter heaven. Those he doesn't know will not get thru the door. Is that any diff than you and I with a person knocking on our doors? Why should it be with God?

BTW there really is no such thing as over-believing in God. We don't have enough time in our lifetime to really know all there is to know about him.

I beg to differ. You see time and again I have seen how people want to believe something will be done (every time) by simply praying to God for it. Take the recent cases of people praying to cure children and now 2 have died for lack of medical help because they thought prayer would cure them. Of course their excuse is God decided it was the child's time. That to me is over-believing. Taking the concept of God and going extreme with the beliefs and putting peoples lives in danger in the process. I'm sorry, but as screwed up as the human race is, I can never understand, and never will, how anyone can believe God will simply fix things by praying to him. It contradicts the whole "everything has a purpose" idea, the whole "God created everything" and "God is perfect" concept.

Of course we both gonna see it differently so, as some say on this site, we can agree to disagree. Otherwise this will just turn into a religious belief battle and I really am not up to it.

well I'd call it ignorant myself.



Me either. I will lightly debate my faith and biblical teaching but only in a good light. Once it gets heavy or argumentative I say the same as you here....agree to disagree and move on.