It's Everywhere
Published on February 23, 2008 By KFC Kickin For Christ In Pure Technology

We've been discussing quite a bit here on Evolution Science vs Creation Science and the differences in interpretation and free speech for those who have a diff take on this interpretation of evidence.  Recently I came across this article which gives a realistic view of what kind of politics a Creationist Scientist is up against in the Science field.  When you read this keep in mind that the journals Science and Nature are considered the two best journals in the world to publish in.
 
Dr. D. Russell Humphreys, a physicist working for the prestigious Sandia National Laboratories in Albuquerque, New Mexico (who is involved with the laboratory's particle beam fusion project, concerning thermonuclear fusion energy research) is a board member of the Creation Research Society. He has about 30 published articles in mainstream technical journals from 1968 to the present. In the last eight years a lot of his work has been classified, so there has been less of it in the open literature.
Russell Humphreys said in a 1993 interview: "I'm part of a fairly large scientific community in New Mexico, and a good number of these are Creationists. Many don't actively belong to any creationist organization. Based on those proportions and knowing the membership of the Creation Research Society, it's probably a conservative estimate that there are in the US alone around 10,000 practicing scientists who are biblical creationists." ("Creation in the Physics Lab", Creation Ex Nihilo Magazine, Vol. 15, No. 3, pages 20-23).


Creationists such as Humphreys have extensive publications in mainstream journals on non-creationist topics. Creationists who publish scientific research in mainstream journals have found that they can publish articles with data having creationist implications, but will not get articles with openly creationist conclusions published. When they attempt to do this, their articles are usually rejected. Those who are well-known to evolutionists as creationists have more difficulty even with articles which do not have obvious creationist implications.


In the summer of 1985 Humphreys wrote to the journal Science pointing out that openly creationist articles are suppressed by most journals. He asked if Science had "a hidden policy of suppressing creationist letters." Christine Gilbert, the letters editor, replied and admitted, "It is true that we are not likely to publish creationist letters." This admission is particularly significant since Science's official letters policy is that they represent "the range of opinions received." e.g., letters must be representative of part of the spectrum of opinions. Yet of all the opinions they receive, Science does not print the creationist ones.

Humphrey's letter and Ms. Gilbert's reply are reprinted in the book, Creation's Tiny Mystery, by physicist Robert V. Gentry (Earth Science Associates, Knoxville, Tennessee, 2nd edition, 1988.)


On May 19, 1992 Humphreys submitted his article * "Compton scattering and the cosmic microwave background bumps" to the Scientific Correspondence section of the British journal Nature. The editorial staff knew Humphreys was a creationist and didn't want to publish it (even though the article did not contain any glaring creationist implications). The editorial staff didn't even want to send it through official peer review.
 
Six months later Nature published an article by someone else on the same topic, having the same conclusions. Thus, most creationist researchers realize it is simply a waste of time to send journal editors openly creationist articles. To say that a "slight bias" exists on the part of journal editors would be an understatement.

* The Institute for Creation Research published a laymanized version of Humphrey's article in their Impact series [No. 233, "Bumps in the Big Bang", November 1992]. Reference 5 of that article contains information about the Nature submission.
 the full link with references can be read here:

http://www.rae.org/crepub.html.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Feb 26, 2008

If God Himself came and convinced you, you'd be convinced, but nothing any of us say will do it. I think I'm paraphrasing but that's the general idea I get from you.

I wouldn't say "nothing," but the arguments made here certainly aren't working.  I can write off a lot of what I think as potentially wrong, but not young earth theories.  I mean, erase evolution completely from the picture.  That the universe is only 6-10k years old is preposterous to me.

When anyone wants to talk about God, in any area, science, relationships, etc...she has probably studied the area and will at the very least have some good conversation about it whether, in the end, you agree or disagree.

I'd take your word for it, but she and I can't even agree that the meanings of the words we use are integral to getting our points across, and for me, at least, that is a necessity for a "good conversation" about anything.

 

on Feb 26, 2008
I wouldn't say "nothing," but the arguments made here certainly aren't working.


I would say nothing, but then again, I believe in the Bible and if it's not true, then you could be convinced by us it is true. If it IS true, then we can't do the convincing. I think that's pretty convenient for us.
on Feb 26, 2008

I'd take your word for it, but she and I can't even agree that the meanings of the words we use are integral to getting our points across, and for me, at least, that is a necessity for a "good conversation" about anything.

hahahaha.  Well that's not just limited to this discussion...

remember the debate about the definition of "sex" and what the word "is" really means...

LOL

Some things just can't be debated.

on Feb 26, 2008
Some things just can't be debated.


That's debatable.



~Zoo
on Feb 26, 2008

It's God's job to convince, our job to tell.

Exactly Jay.  I'm not really trying to convince even tho Sodaiho said BS when I told him this.  I suppose it could look like this when we go back and forth over the net....but in real life, I'd probably shrug and say ok..... and if they say no matter what you say, I won't believe, I say...discussion is over then. 

The study of the literal word(s), no? Do you just study the ones you like and discount the rest, or something? I think if you're going to convince anyone that literal interpretations are correct, you're going to have to hold yourself accountable to the literal meanings of words. And even from a practical side - if we can't agree that words have specific meanings, how are we to discuss anything?

That's not it Ock.  LW made a comment.  You echoed it by even quoting it.  When I called you on this, you "said" you had been thinking of this for "awhile" and it had nothing to do with LW's comment (even tho you quoted her) when in fact I had just put together "two" articles on science almost back to back.  Instead of acknowledging this, you chose to give me a definition for "awhile to go off subject."  Com'on.  Did you learn this tactc from Clinton?

So, from my position, I see you going on "feeling" instead of fact.  That's why I put the facts down for your consideration.  You just showed me your subjectivism instead of objectivism.  I just wanted you to see this for your own benefit.  I enjoy discussing things with you until these types of games get played.  That's why I say let's stick to the topic. 

Maybe it is, J, but I don't see it. If "telling" was her purpose, then when someone disagreed she'd just say "Well, I told you what I had to tell you. If you don't believe it, it's no skin off my nose. Good luck."

I do this all the time.  Disagreement is ok.   I have no problem with that.  When it gets nasty or I get attacked I do have a problem with that.  Why does this have to happen?  I've NEVER attacked someone and called them names. i.e hypocrite, ignorant, stupid, insane etc for their POV.  NEVER.

 

on Feb 26, 2008

I am not saying debate isn't important. I've learned a lot from it, in a lot of subjects.

I think we all learn alot from well researched debates. It forces me to search out truth.  Sometimes it's just what's needed to get us to thinking about things we never normally think about.  I've had some here tell me they've learned alot just by listening in even if they don't say anything.  So there are some that enjoy these conversations anonymously. 

I know KFC writes about these things because she is PASSIONATE about them, she wants to share her knowledge with people, all with the one command laid on her heart..."Go forth and make disciples of all nations."

This is true.  Sometimes it's just on my mind because I'm either thinking about these things or studying them as in the case of heaven and hell I wrote about recently.  Also there is an AIG conference here this weekend so be prepared for more on Science because I'm really interested in this right now.  I'm thrilled AIG is coming here.  In Maine we never saw anything like this.  Fossils is on the list so hone up you guys...... 

Hey Tova.....my life verse is Jeremiah 20:7-9.  Check it out!! 

at least she is authentic and doesn't sugar coat her faith. Even if you consider her a zealot, a Jesus freak, whatever, you know where she stands. She is consistent and reliable. When anyone wants to talk about God, in any area, science, relationships, etc...she has probably studied the area and will at the very least have some good conversation about it whether, in the end, you agree or disagree.

I don't sugar coat many things.  Hahahahah I'm too blunt for that.  I don't even sugar coat my own denomination (as many do) and am very free to discuss the "bad stuff" I see wanting to see changes rather then have it go on.  I hate the "religious pride" I see in my own church at times.  If given the chance I tell them that.  I'm actually in a bit of trouble right now because I call myself a Christian and not a "Baptist"  Some have taken offense at that.  Oh well.....lol. 

I know its been said a thousand times on JU...but its her blog, her choice of subject matter

Exactly.  I can't believe that there are people out there that want to "help" me by telling me what I should or should not write.  I would never do that to anyone.  I think that takes alot of gall to say such things.  I've had this happen a couple of times now.  I don't get that.  In fact if I write on other subjects they don't do near as well as these on Religion or Science. 

 

on Feb 27, 2008

 

When I called you on this

aka 'I don't think you're telling the truth' aka 'you're a liar'

Com'on.  Did you learn this tactc from Clinton?

I'm not sure what this is an accusation of.  But it certainly is one.

I see you going on "feeling" instead of fact.

  1. I state a fact.  I was thinking about something for a while.
  2. Little Whip posts something that reminded me of it.
  3. I agree and add the subject of #1.
  4. You accuse me of lying - your evidence is that you haven't been posting things of this nature long enough for "awhile" to have passed.
  5. http://kfc.joeuser.com/article/121503/Evolution-A_Religion_or_Not Posted June, 2006

Looks like I was going on facts.  I suppose I should have posted #5 instead of pointing out that you were misusing the word "awhile."

I've NEVER attacked someone and called them names. i.e hypocrite, ignorant, stupid, insane etc for their POV.

Is this not an attack on atheists to you?

Atheistic- Atheism says that everything comes from nothing. There is no God. There is no purpose in life. Might makes right as Hitler believed. There is no absolute rule as there is no God to dictate such rules.

Is it an attack to imply someone is possessing a certain quality without actually using the word for that quality?

Here's food for thought.  Your article, and it's title, accuse a group of people as being biased, does it not?

Here's something else to ponder.  Who said this?

While I admit I do have bias, there was no bias in my definitions of the six viewponts.

And before you respond, who posted this? (on my birthday in 2005, for trivia's sake)

There is always another side; suspend judgment.

Will I get credit for attacking your lack of consistency if I don't use the word "inconsistent?"

What if I just post a definition for the heck of it with no "You are a..." in front of it?  For example:

hyp·o·crite      [hip-uh-krit] Pronunciation Key –noun

1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

I apologize for the hijack, and to prove I'm sincere, you can now continue, uninterrupted, with your suspension of judgment for the other side without my continued presence.

So as not to be thought of as one that shoots and runs, please take the last word, and I will post "I have read your response" (which I will do) and depart.

on Feb 27, 2008

This would be an interesting perspective from you.

Would be?  Would you like to clarify? 

I stand by what I said Ock and your posting of still another term against me just proves it.  You can't seem to get by too many responses to me without going on the attack.  I believe you believe you are sincere, I'm just not buying it.  I think you've much more subjective than you admit.

As far as bias?  We all have bias.  So this wasn't an attack against Atheists.  I'm just pointing out the bias.  I mean how can this be an attack when, as you pointed out, I've already admitted bias on my own part?  *shakes head* makes no sense Ock. 

 

 

on Feb 27, 2008

I have read your response.

I'll add - have a nice day, blog, and life.

on Feb 27, 2008
Thanks you too....  

on Feb 27, 2008
http://kfc.joeuser.com/article/121503/Evolution-A_Religion_or_Not Posted June, 2006


So Ock you're going all the way back to June 2006 to prove that I've been writing about this alot? So two articles here in February of 08 and one in 06 makes an obsession?

Do you go after others about writing about a certain subject "too much?" Do you go after Sodaiho for writing about "The Buddha" or ParaTed for writing about his Mormon Faith? Do you check out those fixated on Politics and question them as well? Or is it just me you like to accuse of staying too focused on a certain subject?

I guess I'm just perplexed as to why it matters at all? Unless it's related to what the movie "Expelled" is going to ask when it comes out....why is free speech ok everywhere else but in the Scientific Community?

I have yet to see anyone else questioned on these JU forums to the extent I've been questioned about what I write about.

I say live and let live.

on Feb 28, 2008
I thought this some interesting food for thought as I stumbled upon it today.



Now we should stop playing the debate game and you should come read my adventures from Spain on my blog, sister.
on Feb 28, 2008

hahahahahah thanks SC.  Sometime you'll have to show me how you bring these pics here because I'm inept at this. 

I'll be by if you promise to play nice......

PS.....how did those fossils get on them thar mountains anyhow? 

Stay tuned.  I'm going to a conference on Saturday and the first topic is FOSSILS. 

 

 

 

on Feb 29, 2008
Stay tuned. I'm going to a conference on Saturday and the first topic is FOSSILS.


I'm interested to see what they have to say, and what you choose to share. As of this moment, I've never heard anything even remotely credible from the Young Earth Creationists as to the Genesis of these bones (and this goes for the YEC in my own congregation, which are more than just a few). Everything from "they were put there by God to test us" to "they were put there by Satan to tempt us" to "they were from different planets when God used matter from other worlds to create this one".

They're all kinda laughable, so I'll be curious to see what these people present and what you deem worthy of sharing with us.
on Feb 29, 2008

They're all kinda laughable, so I'll be curious to see what these people present and what you deem worthy of sharing with us.

Are you referring to the fossils found on mountaintops?

I agree with you on this and I'm not one to just make up something because I WANT to believe it to be true.  I'm afraid that's what it sounds like you're dealing with there.  At least they should be better informed if they are going to go with it. 

Have you checked out AIG?  Because while I discount Discovery Institute (as laughable) I do think AIG has some really good arguments. 

I'll take good notes and be back later on this weekend or beginning of next week with a report. 

 

 

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