"Our truth" means that it's our truth...as in everyone's...well, except creationists. You don't seem to consider it truth...you attack its merit every chance you get and to this very day have not yet succeeded in busting evolutionary theory.



Lies? Really? How is it a lie when they say, "This is the evidence, this is what happened?" It's not like people are just making this up to attack religion. It's not a war, it's just what we find but you've all gone and turned it into a war.

It's not equal consideration you all want, it's YOUR belief you want passed on to children.

Evolution is a scientific theory and should be regarded as such. Like any other theory in science today. We don't teach alchemy alongside chemistry, or magic alongside physics...why would we teach religion alongside biology? I mean, after all alchemy and magic are also alternative explanations for some things...they're not right, but you can believe in them if you want to.

Do see the road you're going down? Teach ID or creationism in science class and you open the floodgates for any other weird explanation for anything...and therein lies chaos. If they want to learn about creationism, then let them do their own spiritual journey...it's just that simple. Heck, it only takes 5 seconds to go over the entire idea behind it. "God created it, any questions?" Well, that's done...on to real science.



Because it's not possible. The Flintstones may sound fun, but it wasn't a documentary...hate to say it.

~Zoo

The controversy over ET is in 3 areas...constitutional, academic and scientific.

So far public schools teach Evolution exclusively...that man is a product of bio-chemistry through a series of changes evolving over billions of years. It's all based on assumptions, conjecture and shifting suppositions.   

Creationists assert this violates the Constitution by exclusively teaching evolution, a a basic tenet of the religion of humanism. Such exclusivity violates free exercise rights of students who believe in Creation, violates establishment clause of 1st amendment, no state religion.

It violates neutrality no preference intent of 1st amendment and violates 14th amdndment discrimination on basis of reeligion. Excluding teaching the other side of the debate violates parental rights to direct their childs/moral spiritual beliefs and deprives student's right to hear all relevant educational material.

Teaching all aspects of a subject is true academic freedom anything less is indoctrination. Students should get a balanced presentation.

 

 

 

Evolution is an unproven theory...it hasn't been demonstrated...so What part of Evolution is truth?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wanted a baby elephant vaccuum cleaner...

Evolution is not a religon. It has been supported with various experiments and observations over the course of the last century and a half. How many times do I have to say this before you understand it?

If theory=religion then it's time to bust out the Church of Atomic Theory, the Law of Gravity Church, the Holy Ministry of Decision Theory, St. Extreme Value Cathedral...yeah, that's going to happen.


Evolution is the best theory we have for the origin of life, what the hell else are we going to teach?

God created us in a magic poof? Is that scientific in anyway? Is it? No...no it is not. It is a personal belief that you want to perpetuate through the school system and thereby making it a state religion, or at the very least county religion.



WTF? Seriously...didn't I go over the definition of theory? You can support it, but you don't prove it. You only have support. So far, we keep finding support...support, support, support for around 150 years.



Pretty much the part that's right. Things change over time. Do they not? The world is not and has never been a static place. Is that not the truth? Has it always been the same?


~Zoo

Why do you keep saying this stuff Zoo?  You know I believe in the evidence, it's the "well we believe this or we think that" I have a problem with.  Com'on Zoo.  Think about what I'm saying.

Fact is fact.  Evidence is Evidence.  Belief is Belief.  We should be able to get thru this by using those three little test questions I keep speaking about.  That's the criteria. 

 You're doing alot of talking Zoo, but you're not giving me any facts.  You're giving me a......"well since I'm not a Christian, I have to believe in this Evolution stuff because that's what I am....an Evolutionist."   Creationists believe in Science as well.   Science and Christianity are NOT mutually exclusive. 

Remember what my son said?  Remember he said an Evolutionist doesn't really want to get into a conversation with a Creationist on Origins. 

Any poofing going on is coming from YOUR side.  You've got SOMETHING coming from NOTHING not us.    Ex nihilo nil

Think about this......there are 1500 miles of Highway in the lungs....forget about the brain.  Our eye twitches so we can see.  Do we tell it to?   How many billions of cells are in one human?   We have 206 bones and 650 muscles and if we break a bone it can repair itself by gowing?  How did this just happen?

Have you ever really looked at the Emperor Penguins in the Antarctia?   How amazing they are?  Do you know they only lay one egg and do you know how unique they are?  Think about the first parent with the first egg.  What would happen if they screwed up? 

Think about how they bring new life into the world.  Who taught the first penguin male to hold the egg on his feet under his flap for three months while his wife goes fishing?  I mean less than two minutes in the fresh Artic air means instant death for this egg.  How did those first Penguins know to move together in a corkscrew pattern constantly so they don't freeze to death?  How in the earth did we get a group of Penguins to evolve all at once anyhow at the same exact time to do this?  They need a community to even stay alive. Do you know these are the only penguins that allow such close personal contact?  THey need to because otherwise they'd all die. 

I mean how did the first of anything know how to do the things to keep their species alive?  The very first anything?  One mistep and they're dead.  So did just another one evolve after that? 

Like I said, you don't want to start talking origins.  I'd just have you go to any nature movie and try to explain about the Marsupial Frog  (with the pouch) or the Maloch Horridus Lizard or a Head Standing Beetle etc. 

How did that first head standing beetle know he had to stand upside down to get water just from condescension?  If the fist one doesn't figure this out......no more beetles. 

To me it's sort of going down the beach and looking at a beautiful sand scculpture and walk away speaking of its wonderful evolving. 

And you think we're crazy?   At least we have an explanation that makes sense. 

 

 

 

 

Never proclaimed to not be Christian. I'm not your variety of Christian, but Christian is all I can claim to be...what with the monotheism, and all that.

I never said I "had" to believe in evolution...I just know it to be a pretty reliable theory. Makes sense to me, and therefore I have no issue with it and readily add it to my repetoire.



As for the rest of that, you basically admit it's too hard to understand it. Admittedly it's complicated, but it's not evidence of a divine creator...unless you desperately want it to be. I could explain all those things...but frankly, I'm really tired of it.

You seem to forget that the earth was a very different place long ago. In fact as I seem to recall there was one huge continent, Pangea. Also there was a different climate and atmosphere. (Then again, you probably don't believe that either)

It's not like a bird was dropped in a frigid wasteland and had to figure it all out on its own. The beetle didn't get placed in the desert and have to figure out how to drink on its first day. These climates established themselves slowly and the animals that lived there changed along with it. Getting cold? Get fatter. Eggs gettin' too cold to sit on? Try to put'em on your feet. Can't find water? Look around when it's misty. Water sticks to you? Maybe you can drink it.

Things change when their environment changes...if they don't change, then they die. That's the rule, and that's why you see extinction. Those animals couldn't cut it and they all died. The ones that did figure out a way lived.




By the way, I'd like to point out the natural formations that resemble faces and figures that people always take note of. You've seen things that look like faces on mountains, and heck, even the moon.

But like I say, a living thing is not comparable to an object- a sculpture is static, life is dynamic and can change.



Now if you'll excuse me I have to go be racist, punch babies, maybe a murder or two, and then pay homage to the dark lord Darwin for my atheistic and evil ways. Also I have to think up more crazy theories that will try to tear down the structure of Christianity.

Toodles.

~Zoo

KFC writes:

Zoo posts: #68

We did? This is quite an astounding assertion considering the fact there is simply no scientific evidence that species(macro)-evolution of life forms ever occurred.

Fossil remains in the sedimentary rock strata are the only real hope of finding evidence that species evolution might have occurred in the past. I can provide quote after quote from scientists who say that thus far, there is absolutely no indication from the fossil record that speices evolution ever occurred.

A couple of questions Zoo.

Why don't textbooks discuss the "Cambrian explosion", in which all major animal groups appear together in the fossil record fully formed, instead of branching from a common ancestor---thus contradicting the evolutionary "tree of life"?

Why do textbooks define homology as similiarty due to common ancestry, then claim that it is evidence for common ancestry--a circular argument masquerading as scientific evidence?

According to the theory, yes. Didn't say I had evidence for that particular link...but if our theory holds true(like it has for so long) then that's what happened.



Are those scientists high? It's pretty well agreed upon that fossils indicate evolution.




It's a bump in the road to be sure, but it's being worked on. There are several possible explanations, but one hasn't seemed to emerge quite yet. Although, I 'd say researching it is better than saying "God did it" and walking away. We do discuss it...no one's ever hidden that it's happened which is what you seem to be implying.

Interesting that you'd even refer to it...because according to you it never happened anyway. Come to play in our ballfield for a bit?



I've always understood homology as a readily observable state. Like parts in animals, thereby common ancestory is probable. Since homology is known and easily seen, the common ancestor part is the theory. It's not circular unless you set it up that way. Homology is the supporting evidence of common ancestory...common ancestory is not evidence of homology. See how that works?


Oh evolution, if only you pissed off a religion that no one takes seriously, then it wouldn't be such a hassle.

I wonder why Christians don't focus so hard on evaluating other theories like they do evolution? If you put everything under that kind of scrutiny think of all the fun you could have. I mean you've got scientific, economic, mathematical, physical, chemical, etc., etc., etc....so many theories to try and break.

~Zoo

Lula posts:

No, after 150 some years of collected evidence and all the millions of fossils found so far do not give witness to evolution of one type of animal changing into another. If evolution occurred and is the cause of life there ought to be tons of partly evolved life forms ...for evolution to occurr this had to occur in great abundance...mucho plenty! The fossils should reveal creatures which are half fish/half animal...half ape/half men....you know the drill...one species changing into another and on and on up the evolutionary ladder...

But throughout all past history and present observation, no one, but no one has seen this done or any evidence at all that one species changed into another. Our modern species are what we find there and some extinct ones. There are no transitional or halfway forms found. Yes, there are extinct plants and animals which no longer live on earth. But even scientists agree that extinct species are not evidence of macro-evolution. Dinosaurs are proof of extinction, not evolution.

Sorry about that Zoo... the Evolutionists are having a real problem with fossils....they aren't witnesses to macro-evolution. Rather these fossils and their location as laid down in successive strata are witnesses to a great flood like the one described in Genesis 6-9.

The Flood rapidly covered the earth with water. When it did, sediments of pebbles, gravel, clay and sand were laid down in successive strata covering animal and plant life. Under great pressure, these sediments turned into what is called sedimentary rock. All that mass of water laiden material successively ocvered millions of living creatures and plants and the result is fossils which today are only found in the sedimentary rock strata.

When the Flood came the first to be covered were the slow moving animals, the next the larger and faster moving ones, and so on. When we dig in the rock strata we find the lowest has the slower moving creatures, above them the faster ones. Now, Evolutionists will say the lowest strata, the Cambrian, 570 million years old, the Plicene at 10 million and the Pleistocene at 2 million. And we learn that how they did this was that the rocks are dated from theories about the fossils and the fossils are dated from the theories about the rocks. But in actuality, the evidence shows that all the sedimentary strata with its hoardes of fossils were laid down within a short period of time.

First of all, I know next to nothing about the economic, mathematical, chemical, etc. theories that you speak of....having said that, I would assume they stand apart bigtime from the Macro-Evolution Theory in this one regard....they do not try to explain our origin, our very existence from the dawn of time. As we've already discussed, Evolution T. does...it teaches that God is out of the picture...it kicks God out of science and that's the rub for those who believe otherwise.

Besides that, some people just don't like and will not swallow being told something is fact when it hasn't been proven as fact.

Yes, there are.  In fact, there's a link somewhere around here that shows quite a lot of them.  There are gaps, yes...but transitional fossils have been found.

 

Your flood explanation is bogus, by the way.  There is a logical precession of fossils up the geological strata.  In each section there are time specific organisms.   There aren't any reptiles before a certain point, there aren't any birds before a certain point, there aren't any people before a certain point. 

Also this would indicate dinosaurs lived alongside humans as well as giant bugs, crazy fish things, and a whole slew of crazy looking things...why has no one made record of them?  Surely if dinosaurs roamed the land you would notice and maybe try a bestiary or something or paint it on a cave wall? And these are humans with cites, language, and books, no less!  You don't think a dinosaur would come over chomp up all the stupid weak little people?  Sticks and stones only go so far when trying to bring down many tons of hungry predator.

The flood theory also neglects to say how everything survived.  I mean, you got the Noah and boat situations but that raises many more questions.  How was there enough food?  How did he get every single animal?(monkeys, cows, lions, camels, spiders, ants, flamingos)  And when the flood receeded how was there still plant life?  A crap load of salt water for 40 days is bound to kill every single plant and all freshwater fish.  The flood theory falls a little flat, in my opinion.

~Zoo

They explain a lot of other things that brush off mysterious God powers in light of observable events.

Miracles happening?  Just a bit of probability law.

God guides people?  How about a little rational economic theory to maximize our utility?

God created us from dirt?  Well, we're mostly carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen...not dirt, which is mostly silica and iron.

There are thousands and thousands of theories that help us explain the world around us and don't mesh with a literal interpretation of the Bible.

~Zoo

Well, there WAS carbon and oxygen and hydrogen in the dirt... apparently it's all used up on all us people!

I think I'm just kidding.

You'd better be.   Unless Adam was a huge, huge, huge man.

He's the only one said to have been molded like a little golem from the earth.

...Well, Lilith too, but we don't go there...

~Zoo

Ha! I hear ya, Zoo.   




Ya, let's not.   

Ok, I'm outta here..got a birthday cake to bake ....my daughter is going to be 22 tomorrow!