KFC WRITES:

KFC WRITES:

Just to add a bit to what you've written.

Philadelphia is a province of Lydia about 25 miles south east of Sardis. Evidently, it’s geographical location made it a gateway to all of Phrygia. Size wise, Philadelphia was small compared to its neighboring cities therefore, the Christian community wasn’t large. Evidently it was under attack from outside but excellent in spirit and order within. Like the Christians in Smyrna the Lord expresses great praise for them. As in Smyrna, the distress seems to have been caused by the hostility of the Jews.

The main concern of the letter is to arouse confidence, to strengthen the manifest loyalty and to inspire courage for the future.

Apoc. 3: 7b “ These things says the Holy One and the true one, “He who has the key of David, He who opens and no man shuts, and shuts and no man opens”



It’s true that we worship other gods. How about man worshipping himself arrogantly thinking himself so sufficient so capable? We are seeing a new and I think more dangerous wave of atheism that we as Christians must defend against.

The titles given to Jesus in this letter clearly indicate His Divinity. “The Holy One” is reference to Yahweh in the OT, and “the true one” is also used by St. John in his Gospel, 1:9; 4:23; 7:28; 15:1; and 17:3. It conveys the complete reliability and faithfulness of the Lord with regard to His promises. Also, in the fifth seal-vision, 6:10, of the martyrs, God is called “holy and true” which reveal His divine essence.

“He who has the key of David” This testifies to His Messiahship. A verse from Is. 22:22 which prophecies that Eliacim would receive the office of being in charge of the royal palace is here interpreted Messianically and the house of David is made a symbol of the Messianic kingdom.

Scripture doesn’t tell us much about the lineage's of the Blessed Mother Mary or of St.Joseph. Blessed Mary’s mother was St.Ann and father was St.Joachim.

Who has the key? Our Lord also used this metaphor when He confirmed St.Peter in the primacy, St.Matt. 16:19, and when He passed on His powers to the college of Apostles. 18:18.

“He who opens and no man shuts, and shuts and no man opens” Jesus alone decides who is accepted into heaven of the final time, or who remains excluded.

Apoc. 3: 8 “ I know your works. Behold, I have given before you a door opened, which no man can shut: for you have but little strength (power), and have kept My word, and have not denied My name.”

Here the fidelity of these few Christians of the Philadelphia Church is praised despite their limitations. When it says that despite their weakness they have not denied Christ’s name, this implies that the strength which enables them to win victory is something given by God, who often acts and triumphs amidst our weakness and shortcomings. As a reward they are given an open door which no enemy can shut---which is an assurance of evangelical success despite opposition. They have applied their strength of their living faith openly for missionary purposes.


This is the same which we are to be doing now and by His grace, all things are possible, which when you think about it is simply amazing. St.Paul says as much to the faithful of Corinth.

“Consider your vocation, brethren; that there are not many wise according to worldly standards, not many powerful, not many of noble birth, but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak to confound the strong. God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human should glory in His sight.” 1Cor.1:26-29.

Apoc. 3: 9 “ Behold, I will bring of the synagogue of Satan, those who say they are Jews and are not, but lie. Behold, I will make them come and worship before your feet, and they shall know that I have loved you.”


Christ again refers to “the synagogue of Satan”. This is the Jewish persecution of the Church and Christ promises to make these persecutors of His Church “learn that I have loved you.” This anticipates the major themes of the Book of the Apocalypse. Christ wants it to be clear to all the world that from this time forward, He loves His Church as His chosen people. In Galatians and Hebrews we find the one major reason the Temple had to be destroyed was to clear up latent confusion over where one met God, in the Temple or in the Church.


He will convince those that now the Christians are the true “Israel of God” whom He has lovingly adopted in His Son. The prophetic promise of the homage of heathens to Israel Is. 45:14; 49:23; 60:14, will now also be fulfilled in that the first chosen people, who has lost its election through its own fault, will show this honor to the new people of the New and Everlasting Covenant of God.

Apoc. 3: 10- 13 “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 “Behold, I come quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one take your crown. 12 “He that shall overcome, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more; And I will write upon him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name. 13“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

V. 10, Our Lord wishes to reward their fidelity in keeping the faith, and shut them to the powers of persecution. That is, He will see to it that those Christians will stand the test and will suffer no losses through apostasy.


V. 12, To those that shall overcome by remaining faithful to Christ, He promises to write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and My own new name. Now, St.John anticipates the “New Jerusalem” and is preparing us for it which we will see in its full manifestation at the very end of the visions. He alludes to the writing of the name of God on the conqueror, which is preparing us for the mark of God that will take center stage in opposotion to the famous mark of the Beast.

When all is over, the strife and the victory, the conquering Church will be the pillar in the Temple, that is it will have a place of honor. Gal. 2:9.

He who has the key of David” This testifies to His Messiahship. A verse from Is. 22:22 which prophecies that Eliacim would receive the office of being in charge of the royal palace is here interpreted Messianically and the house of David is made a symbol of the Messianic kingdom.

very good Lula. I was going to put this verse in but it's already long enough and I'm trying to be as brief as I can so you can get the gist of it. But yes, this verse is appropriate.

Scripture doesn’t tell us much about the lineage's of the Blessed Mother Mary or of St.Joseph. Blessed Mary’s mother was St.Ann and father was St.Joachim

I believe this is because the lineage of Jesus is what's important, not Mary. We see Mary's side in Luke and Joseph's in Matthew. Jesus pedigree was never an issue to the Jews. He met the requirements to be the Messiah. They just didn't accept he could be the one.

Who has the key? Our Lord also used this metaphor when He confirmed St.Peter in the primacy, St.Matt. 16:19, and when He passed on His powers to the college of Apostles. 18:18.

I think it's quite clear it's Jesus who holds the keys. You see that here and in Chap 1 for a reason. It's no Peter and it's not his successors. It's Christ.

The prophetic promise of the homage of heathens to Israel Is. 45:14; 49:23; 60:14, will now also be fulfilled in that the first chosen people, who has lost its election through its own fault, will show this honor to the new people of the New and Everlasting Covenant of God.

this comes under anti-semetic thought Lula and one I disagree with. They have not lost their election. God is not done with the Jews. They have been blinded for a time and he will turn back to them. God did not replace the Jews with us Christians. Because of their unbelief, they are being disciplined and we are allowed to come in until the "fullness of the gentiles" comes in. Then he turns back to them. Jeremiah 31 (I've brought up a ton) is a very good read to show he's not done with them. Not to mention Paul speaking on this in Romans at great length.

LULA POSTS:


Uh-huh! My interpretation of Apoc.3:9 is not, no-way, no-how anti-Semitism...don't go there...fight the feeling. The term "New Jerusalem" has been introduced in this study. I think in the New Jerusalem both Jews and Gentiles (but without this distinction) are to be found within the fold..and that is a work in progress and will be until the end when Christ comes again, His Second Advent.






It's been awhile...please refresh me on what your point of citing Jer. 31. He's not done with them you say. True!! He's not done with any of us for that matter.


Also, please give the Chapter and verse of Romans.

Uh-huh! My interpretation of Apoc.3:9 is not, no-way, no-how anti-Semitism...don't go there...fight the feeling

ok, fair enough. When I saw the we are now the chosen....too bad Israel missed the boat, bad on them talk I assumed you were talking the much believed "replacement" theory. I don't believe that theory is biblical but it's out there.

t's been awhile...please refresh me on what your point of citing Jer. 31

I was referring to v35-37 which says:

"Thus says the Lord, which gives the sun for a light by day and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night which divides the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name: IF those ordinances depart from before me says the Lord THEN the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Thus says the Lord; if heaven above can be measured and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, says the Lord."

Last I looked those ordinances were still in their places and I'm not so sure if we even have a clue how to measure the heavens or the foundations of the earth for that matter. I don't think we have equipment handy enough for all that. So it's pretty obvious what the answer is here. Besides, just their longevity speaks volumes.

There were three unconditional covenants made by God to the Jews. One was the Abrahamic Covenant, the next was the Davidic Covenant and lastly is the New Covenant. While God did issue conditional covenants from time to time these three are UNconditional. If you go to v32 you'll see an example of a conditional covenant in which Israel broke.

Also, please give the Chapter and verse of Romans.

oh, well I know now that you know them....I was referring to Romans Chap 9-11.

"Has God cast away his people? God forbid. For I am an Israelite of the seed of Abraham of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast his people which he foreknew. ........I say then Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid; but rather through their fall salvation is come to the Gentiles to PROVOKE them to jealousy......"Romans 11:1,2,11.

OKay, so you're saying that Jer. 31: 35-37 shows that GOd is not done with the Jews, right? To this I would agree, but would like to make a distinction that it is not all, not every Jew who was ever been born, the entire Jewish nation who up until the time of Christ's First Advent that God has chosen as His people Israel.

V. 35-37 tells us that the Lord Himself declares that His plans for His chosen people endures forever. He assures that His love and mercy towards them is immutable as the laws of nature. Nothing can change that. Insofar as God is the only source of election, His word will not fail.




All of these covenants you mentioned, including the Mosaic Covenant have already been fulfilled or completed. The Old Mosaic COvenant written on stone is the one referred to in v. 32 the one Israel broke, has been fulfilled or completed in the New and Everlasting Covenant in the Blood of Jesus and written on the heart and soul of men. The Abrahamic, Davidic and Mosaic covenants have ceased to operate. This is known as biblical Judaism and that ceased when the Temple was destroyed and Jerusalem burnt in 70AD. The New COvenant or New Testament of grace is the only one operating and in effect and a "remnant" of Jews figure in the New COvenant as well, although it is a mystery.

Since Christ died and rose again, the Jews can still be saved. Thus, from the coming of CHrist until the end of time, GOd will be saving Jews. He saved them in the OT and He will save Jews in the NT and thus, "all Israel will be saved" according to the promise God gave to Abraham and David.

Jer.31 v. 33 refers to the "house of Isreal" which is the New Isreal or the New Jerusalem. Romans 11 supports this. God has already begun to fulfill His promise in the present and even in Israel's hardening against Him, He leaves open the possiblility of grace.

Of Jer. 31:31-34, the Church teaches, "At all times and in every race, God has chosen to welcome to whosoever fears Him and does what is right. God, however, does not makne men holy and save them as mere individuals, without bond, or link between one another. Rather it has pleased Him to bring men together as one people, a people that acknowledges him in truth and serves Him in holiness.

He therefore chose the race of Israel as a people unto Himself. With it He set up a covenant. Step by step He taught and prepared this people, making known in its history both Himself and the decree of His will and making it holy unto Himself. All these things, however, were done by way of preparation and as a figure of that new and perfect covenant, which was to be ratified in CHrist, and of that fuller revelation which was to be given through the Word of God Himself made flesh. 'Behold the days shall come saith the Lord, and I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah...I will give the law in their bowels, and I will write it in their heart, and I will be their GOd, and they shall be My people. ..For all of them shall know Me, from the least of them even to the greatest, saith the Lord' (Jer. 31:31-34).

Christ instituted this new Covenant, the New Teatament, that is to say, in His Blood, calling together a people made up of Jew and Gentile, making them one, not according to the flesh, but in the Spirit."

yes, would agree with you. But as a Nation they are going to be saved. He's holding them together even now. Look at all the other nations no longer. They have all gone or been assimilated into other cultures. Not Israel even tho they have had no country for 2,000 years. That's amazing.

The Covenants were for certain times and purpose with each better than the one before it. When God is ready, the door to the Gentiles will be shut and he will reopen the door to the Jews. I think we're starting to see the doors being shut all over the place including here. While I don't think any door is completely shut, it does seem to be getting close. When that time comes, it's too late. Think about the parable with the 10 virgins. When the bridggroom came he shut the door and it was too late for the other 5 who were not ready. That's how it's going to be.

That's why it's so urgent for us to continue as long as we have breath to witness to any that have ears to hear.

Are you speaking allegorically or is there Biblical context behind your saying this? I never heard this before.

The Gentiles are all those people other than Jews, right?

Right now, in the New Covenant of grace, the door is wide open for all to become children of God and heirs to His kingdom of Heaven. The time is now for anyone who wants to follow St.John the Baptist's challenge to make straight his path.

Furthermore, I always understood the doors would be open so to speak until the last day of Final Judgment. That's the only time it's too late for us to be considering which side of the fence we want to spend eternity.

KFC POSTS:

I don't see this as you do. When I see the word "nation" in Scripture I interprate that as "people". You see that as nation-state which is fine in the purely political realm. Isreal, as a nation-state, being saved wholesale, un huh, no, I just don't see that in Scripture.

This is a variant of Protestant Zionism, something right out of Hal LIndsey's book, The Late Great Planet Earth.

no, I'm speaking literally. Jesus said himself in Luke 21:

"......Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles UNTIL the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." v24B

Paul said in Romans 11:25:

"For I would not brethren that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Israel's blindness is partial and temporary until the fulness of the Gentiles is completed. God seems to have a number or time in mind for this. There will come a day that the Jews will be coming to Christ and the Gentiles will not, sort of like the opposite of what we are seeing today. There is an organization called Jews for Jesus that are very active in getting the Jews to acknowledge Christ as their Savior even now.

I don't see how St.Luke 21: 24B and Romans 11:25 make your point about the door being shut to the Gentiles or the day will come when the Gentiles will not be coming to God. Both passages reference "Until the fullness of the Gentiles", and that time is now, the present time and goes until the end of time when Jesus comes again at the Final Judgment.

"The time of the Gentiles" according to Catholic commentary is the period in which the Gentiles, who do not belong to the Jewish people, will become new members of the children of God, the Church. This time will go on until the end of time.

I can understand that somehow God in His own time and way will convert the Jews and if that's what you mean by 'reopening" to door to the Jews, then I understand that.


Also, we've discussed this before that this passage of St. Luke taken in full context from v. 20-33 through the end of the chapter can easily be understood as have already happened. The other chapter references are Daniel and St.Matt. These indicate this was the time of the Great Tribulation leading to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. "Jerusalem was trodden down by the Gentiles" that is the Roman army and Jesus warned the Christians in Jerusalem at that time to flee to the mountains. Those were the days of vengeance when Jesus said that Daniel's SOn of Man would come in judgment. He told the Sanhedrin that they will see the day when He comes to judge them and that day of the destruction of Jerusalem this promise was fulfilled. The destruction of Jerusalem was a great and desivive judgment upon the Jews.

yes and no. Jerusalem has been trodden down by the Gentiles since Nebuchadnezzer first took Jerusalem in 605 BC. Ever since then it's been under Gentile (non Jew) domination. Even today...there is a Muslim Mosque in place of where the Temple should be. Just a simple reading of the OT you can see after the Babylonians had control, then the Medes and Persians, and the Greeks before Rome came on the scene....andit's been controled by Gentiles ever since.

I think when Jesus said "until the fulness of the Gentiles" he means after that the Temple will be rebuilt and the Jews will once again dominate Jerusalem like they were supposed to be. The Jews and the Land were to be forever linked.

I don't see how you can say that v20-33 has ALREADY happened? V27 says:

"And then shall they see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."

That's already happened? You mean I missed the second coming? Although I would agree that v24 not only HAS happened but continues to happen. But certainly v25 hasn't happened yet either.

Concerning 25-28....Jesus having described the signs relating to the destruction of Jerusalem which some of them would live to see, and the general signs of the progress of the present age, then reveals in detail the specific signs which will be unmistakable evidence that the second coming of Christ is near. These specific signs are entirely diff than the signs for the destruction of Jerusalem though there are some similarities.

Taken as a whole, the revelation of Matt 24:4-31 with parallel passages in Mark and Luke answers the three questions that the disciples had raised. First, concerning the destruction of Jerusalem which occurred in 70AD and the second and third questions dealing with the end of the age and the coming of Christ. The event itself is preceded by the signs which Jesus described and are climaxed in the second coming.

In Matt I would say that v4-14 are speaking to the first half of the coming tribulation with v15-28 speaking of the second half.

I don't see how anyone can look at this honestly and declare it's already happened. Are you saying you believe it because you have given this serious thought...or are you saying this because the Catholic encyclopedia has told you so?

When Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD it was awful for them, but it came in waves. There were warnings. Titus didn't just come in all at once and flatten Jerusalem. Besides, this same thing also happened in 3 waves with Nebuchadnezzer. He came in in 605, 597 and finally in 586 BC each time carrying more off to Babylonian captivity before he burned Jerusalem. Daniel and his friends were carried away I think on the second wave with Ezekiel carried away on the third. So 70AD was nothing new. It was history repeating itself...only instead of Neb it was the Roman Titus.

So I'm saying


and you are saying






I see none of this in Scripture especially that part where the Temple will be rebuilt and the Jews will once again dominate Jerusalem. I also don't understand the point of the Jews rebuilding the Temple or dominating Jerusalem especially since the Church and the Christian mission has been a very big part of the city ever since the day of Pentecost and will be until the fullness of the Gentiles until the end of the world.

The Temple was rent and Jerusalem was destroyed and that was the end of BIblical Judaism. The Temple and Temple sacrifice time is done; the Old Covenant has been fulfilled, completed in the New. I see nothing in Scripture that says the Temple is going to be rebuilt in the New COvenant which is everlasting.

I don't think you can see it Lula, to be honest, because you've taken the Preterist viewpoint which has backdated scripture. The temple being rebuilt is all thru not only the OT but also in Revelation for one; but I think there might be more on the Millennium Temple than the Tribulation time temple. Although the Jews in Israel are all ready to built it now. They have everything in place waiting for the right time and permission to do so.



You're looking at it all wrong...it's not sanctioned by God...it's going to be built more for the reign of the Anti-Christ. The Anti-Christ remember is coming as the Jewish Messiah that the Jews have been waiting for. The Messiah, to a Jew, needs a Temple. God is going to use this time and persecution of the Jews (yet again) to wake them up....they are then going to realize that Jesus was the true Messiah afterall. Zechariah writes about this. It's going to be the final Day of Atonement for the Jews.