Posted: Saturday, July 15, 2006Interesting thread. This made me laugh out loud:

me too!!! Thanks for the humorous link.

KFC:

Ok, I answered your questions, now will you answer this? "Now I have to ask. Do you believe (as a Christian) that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth? If you say yes, you have just taken Gen 1:1 literally. You would be inconsistent in saying Gen 1:1 was literal but the rest is symbolic. How do you decide what is truth concerning the scriptures? Where do you begin? Where do you end? "

Bakerstreet:

I decide the same way anyone else would decide, by judging whether it makes any sense at all literally. Saying that God created the heavens and the earth makes sense. Describing a procedure wherein it took six days, when the facts of nature conflict with it doesn't. YOU admit that there is figurative and literal scripture, and YOU refuse to answer the question of how you decide.

Unless my understanding is horribly warped, I believe that would be his answer, 2nd paragraph, Comment #271.

Let's go back and look at Gen 1:1 carefully. I'm thinking still that you have to take this verse literally right? How many false philosophies does this first verse refute?

2. Evolution....because the earth was created, not evolved

I differ. The evolutionary process has nothing to do with creation/formation of the earth.

Unless my understanding is horribly warped, I believe that would be his answer, 2nd paragraph, Comment #271.

no, you're right. I just missed it. Thanks for pointing that out.

"ok fine, even tho I'm still waiting for an answer on why you take Gen 1:1 literally and not 1:2 and onward. So what question? This one? "

Instead of waiting you could just read what I wrote in #261. Why do you ignore what I write?

"I decide the same way anyone else would decide, by judging whether it makes any sense at all literally. Saying that God created the heavens and the earth makes sense. Describing a procedure wherein it took six days, when the facts of nature conflict with it doesn't. YOU admit that there is figurative and literal scripture, and YOU refuse to answer the question of how you decide."

You aren't even waiting until the next numbered page to ask the same questions again, you're just ignoring my responses and posting them over and over now. I see no reason to believe that your heart can be softened, and for that reason, this will be my last post on this article. Eventually even people as long-winded as I have to shake the dust off their feet.

While I respect your beliefs I believe that you have adopted an idolatrous worship of a book. It is literally a 'good book' and I think it is truly inspired by God, and tells of God, and many of the things in it are accounts of things that truly happened. In the end, though, it is limited because it was written by man; and limited in understanding as much as the people were of the time.

I wish you all the best with your beliefs, and I hope that someday you will see that your belief in the inerrancy of the Bible isn't really such. We aren't arguing what the words are, but what they mean. The fact that you can hold to no other interpretation of Genesis 1 tells me that you really aren't preaching the inerrancy of the Bible, rather the inerrancy of your interpretation of it.

So, there's really no reason to argue with someone who believes that they know God's mind. Just as the interpretation of other verses have changed over the years, so might your interpretation of Genesis 1. That's a fact that you cannot admit, though, so you'll suffer the blindness that others suffered for hundreds of years. I feel for you.

If your big scary creationist scientists show up, I'll be happy to talk with them, but you have no interest in science that doesn't agree with your worship of paper and ink. I could tell you the sky is blue and you'd have to check with a book of uncertain authorship that never even claims to be inerrant. I hope someday it leads you to think more of your real connection to God, and then you won't need an inerrant book to hear Him.

I am not mean about it but I do say it like it is.

There seems to be a difference of opinion of what "is" is.

Instead of waiting you could just read what I wrote in #261. Why do you ignore what I write?

I already answered this when I said this....no, you're right. I just missed it. Thanks for pointing that out.

I just missed a whole section you wrote Baker.....sorry about that.

While I respect your beliefs I believe that you have adopted an idolatrous worship of a book.

This is so far from the truth but something you wish to believe. I can't help that.

I wish you all the best with your beliefs, and I hope that someday you will see that your belief in the inerrancy of the Bible isn't really such

I wish you the best as well, and do hope as well that God will put on your heart as he did mine that this truly is more than just a "good book" but one in which he chose to reveal to mankind who and what he's all about. If he's God he's able to keep what he wants us to know pure.

So, there's really no reason to argue with someone who believes that they know God's mind.

no one can know the mind of God only that which he has revealed to us.

That's a fact that you cannot admit, though, so you'll suffer the blindness that others suffered for hundreds of years. I feel for you.

No, Baker, that's just it, I was blind and now I can see. Really. "The word of God is a lamp to the feet and a light to the path." (Ps 119). I think you have me lumped in with some unenlightened people of the past you've heard/read about and it's not the way you assume here. I'm not going by official dogma anymore. That's where the real blindness comes in.

If your big scary creationist scientists show up, I'll be happy to talk with them

me too, but the Scientist in mind is not big and scary at all. He's quite nice actually.

I could tell you the sky is blue and you'd have to check with a book of uncertain authorship that never even claims to be inerrant. I hope someday it leads you to think more of your real connection to God, and then you won't need an inerrant book to hear Him.

this is the dramatic Baker I've come to know and love!!!! Now com'on I'm not that bad. Like I said...if it makes sense........

One of the ways he speaks to us....one of his ways is thru his word...yes, but there are other ways as well. He uses people too. So I do listen for his voice even when I'm talking to people like you or LW even. He also has spoken to me loud and clear thru my experiences...too many to be called coincidences. When you walk in the spirit as I try to do, you notice a whole world that is so different than the physical has to offer. Doesn't mean my head's in the clouds tho. I don't want to be so heavenly minded I'm no earthly good either.

There seems to be a difference of opinion of what "is" is

ain't that the truth!!!.....

I'd appreciate your input there, Baker, and yours too, KFC.

*puts her hand on her heart, smiles very big and says........ "Does that mean we're friends? I'll get back to you.

And he's revealed enough to you for you to proclaim yourself a prophet?

well I guess I would say yes but I wouldn't call it "proclaiming". It had nothing to do with my choice. If it comes up as it did here in discussion, then yes I do acknowledge the gift I was given. We all have certain gifts God has given us. I've actually been told this more than once and it was clear to me after I did a study on the gifts of the spirit. So actually others recognized this in me before I did. No I don't compare myself to the greats of scripture. I'm just making a connection that they were all killed for doing what God had given them to do and that the gift of prophecy is not an easy gift to have by looking at those examples. You just look for a way to criticize.

yet deny any responsibility for the negative results

and how would you possible know this? I wish you would just give it a break LW.

(you've admitted you've never converted a single soul with your abrasive and alienating ways, laying the blame on God himself since only he has 'the power' to do that, yet the prophets you dare to compare yourself to no doubt led untold numbers of people to the Lord) just boggles the freakin' mind.

I have never admitted any such thing, and I'm only abrasive to those like you who have no interest in what I'm saying. If you don't like it, why do you keep coming around? Stay away. Check into the prophet Jeremiah, and see how many he led to Christ in his lifetime. He wasn't called the weeping prophet for nothing.

Even? I love how you marginalize me, KFC.

the reason I said this is because you are not exactly all chocolates and roses around here. If I offended you....I'm sorry. You have said so much worse about me, I can't believe you are this upset over that.

Check into the prophet Jeremiah, and see how many he led to Christ in his lifetime

huh?

What would Jesus do?

he wouldn't blacklist any.......he would just simply not reply.

"He was oppressed and he was afflicted yet he opened not his mouth; he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb so he opened not his mouth."

From God's mouth to your ears..LW.....thanks for the advice.

huh?

you may want to beleive it's God....so let's say Jehovah God. Jesus is God so basically the same thing. The OT prophets looked ahead to the coming Messiah, as we look back.

Jeremiah never lived to see a convert in his lifetime. Sensitive and sympathic by nature he was commanded by God to deliver a stern messsage of judgment. He faced cruel and crushing opposition so much so that he wanted to resign from this office as prophet yet he continued on and did so for about 40 years So for that whole time while faithfully proclaiming God's messsage to Judah he endured opposition, beatings and imprisonment.

John the Baptist also never saw converts, at least what we know of. He did have two disciples that left him and went over to the camp of Jesus so maybe you could say those two. Three and a half years after he died, there were only 120 in the upper room when Pentecost came. These were the faithful ones from all that time that Jesus walked the earth. But at the end of the day 3000 more would be added.

~wonders if this same invitation would be extended to me, heathen that i am.~ For some reason, i really doubt it.

At OUR table, there will always be a place for you and Simon, LW.

Only CALL first...you might get the homemade pork n' beans or sauerkraut you were joking about on the other thread otherwise (LOL!)

Why does someone believe you when you say there are four billion stars, but check when you say the paint is wet?

Why does someone believe you when you say there are four billion stars, but check when you say the paint is wet?

because you can't touch a star